BFL was a SCAM from the beginning -EXT HDD case being sold as a miner in 2011.

CrashX

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Quote from: Micon on September 02, 2013, 03:40:30 AM

IMO consolidate BFL threads to mine.

It has the most views and I'm fantastic at attention-whoring (they call it 'marketing' in schools) so just keep adding to that and I'll promise to try and get it in Ars Technica / NPR / TheVerge / Forbes all publications I've been quoted in this year

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bryan-micons-butterfly-labs-scammer-investigation-including-josh-zerlan-136392

LOL

CrashX

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Quote from: Magazine on August 30, 2013, 10:32:46 AM

For someone who has,

"Don't take life too seriously. Just relax."

In their profile, you seem to be taking this a little serious.

I don't mine about BFL, but I do like to point things out, knowledge is power. or something Wink

Micon

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FPV Drone Pilot

IMO consolidate BFL threads to mine.

It has the most views and I'm fantastic at attention-whoring (they call it 'marketing' in schools) so just keep adding to that and I'll promise to try and get it in Ars Technica / NPR / TheVerge / Forbes all publications I've been quoted in this year

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bryan-micons-butterfly-labs-scammer-investigation-including-josh-zerlan-136392

Magazine

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For someone who has,

"Don't take life too seriously. Just relax."

In their profile, you seem to be taking this a little serious.

tarrant_01

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I earliest pre-order for an FPGA I had on my wait list was in November, so I'm not sure if the September pre-order claim is true. Pretty much everything on that screen-capture of the site is off (cost, availability date, hashes, etc.). Obviously it's all a test site. As for it being a scam from the beginning, well they did ship all of their FPGA pre-orders. No they didn't meet their 4-6 week shipping promise until near the end of their order queue and introduction of the ASIC line. As it is right now, they're just really shitty at production planning and even worse at PR.

Polyatomic

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mrb has an exellent blog.

mrb

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Quote from: CrashX on August 22, 2013, 05:24:50 AM

Quote from: mrb on August 22, 2013, 04:00:21 AM

Ok, I stand corrected, thank you for giving out the source.

But then, the date of this archive.org snapshot, August 19, 2011, elucidates everything... At that time BFL had not introduced themselves to the community, they had of course not even started taking orders, and the community was at large completely unaware of BFL. There is only a single bitcointalk.org post referencing BFL, that pre-dates August 19. It was made 4 days earlier on August 15 in the russian subforum by some guy who apparently stumbled upon the site: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.456853 His post was probably the first link to butterflylabs.com ever, and is probably what allowed the archive.org crawler to discover and archive the page.

Obviously this was a beta version of their website that they were not ready to advertise around. I see no malice in having a non-final "concept" case for the single... Much ado for nothing.

/thread close

They began accepting pre-orders on September 2011, 1 month after lunching the site.

And by September 2011, the hdd case concept image was already removed/replaced with a photo of the real PCB prototype. (I remember that because this was the time I first heard about BFL and saw their PCB.)

So what is your point? That a beta website, not announced to the public, not taking pre-orders, prior to September, was showing a concept image of the Single?? This whole thread makes no sense.

CrashX

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Quote from: mrb on August 22, 2013, 04:00:21 AM

Ok, I stand corrected, thank you for giving out the source.

But then, the date of this archive.org snapshot, August 19, 2011, elucidates everything... At that time BFL had not introduced themselves to the community, they had of course not even started taking orders, and the community was at large completely unaware of BFL. There is only a single bitcointalk.org post referencing BFL, that pre-dates August 19. It was made 4 days earlier on August 15 in the russian subforum by some guy who apparently stumbled upon the site: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.456853 His post was probably the first link to butterflylabs.com ever, and is probably what allowed the archive.org crawler to discover and archive the page.

Obviously this was a beta version of their website that they were not ready to advertise around. I see no malice in having a non-final "concept" case for the single... Much ado for nothing.

/thread close

They began accepting pre-orders on September 2011, 1 month after lunching the site.

This isn't the only Bitcoin forum there are many of them, I bet they began promoting the so call product line the second they lunched the website.

I'm a programmer, and I could tell you that no legit site will ever begin accepting orders on a Beta/Demo site. Done over 10k since '95.

Product Page
http://web.archive.org/web/20110923154722/http://butterflylabs.com/products/

Order Page
http://web.archive.org/web/20110923170442/http://butterflylabs.com/pre-order-form/

At the beginning of the rush, a-lot of people got fool and some are still being fool.

Look at XCrowd, they look legit, are cheaper then BFL's but I bet people aren't buying Pre-Orders as they did with many companies like BFL at the beginning.

XCrowd has a way better payment option than BLF ever did/have, shit even now... BFL wont accept PayPal as a Payment method. Bitcoin's or Wire Transfer ONLY...

Go buy an Item on Craigslist, eBay and ect. If the seller tells you to, send them a Money Order or a Wire Transfer will you DO IT?

But I'm hoping that those new companies coming out are legit, I have my on two of them.

mrb

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Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on August 21, 2013, 04:10:58 PM

Quote from: mrb on August 21, 2013, 04:04:58 PM

CrashX, you are trolling. You, or someone, made the fake screenshot. There was never a picture of an ext hdd case on BFL's website.

NOT FAKE: http://web.archive.org/web/20110819122117/http://butterflylabs.com/products/

Also, from the FAQ page from the same date: http://web.archive.org/web/20110820030402/http://butterflylabs.com/faq/

Ok, I stand corrected, thank you for giving out the source.

But then, the date of this archive.org snapshot, August 19, 2011, elucidates everything... At that time BFL had not introduced themselves to the community, they had of course not even started taking orders, and the community was at large completely unaware of BFL. There is only a single bitcointalk.org post referencing BFL, that pre-dates August 19. It was made 4 days earlier on August 15 in the russian subforum by some guy who apparently stumbled upon the site: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.456853 His post was probably the first link to butterflylabs.com ever, and is probably what allowed the archive.org crawler to discover and archive the page.

Obviously this was a beta version of their website that they were not ready to advertise around. I see no malice in having a non-final "concept" case for the single... Much ado for nothing.

/thread close

millsdmb

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Quote from: Xian01 on August 21, 2013, 04:58:22 PM

Quote from: erk on August 21, 2013, 04:52:21 PM

the entire thread is BS based on something that never shipped, there would have been nothing wrong with using a hard drive style case except it looks boring

With respect, after all was said and done, we learned that the original form-factor of a USB hard drive was nowhere near the final delivery form-factor, nor would it be possible to dissipate the heat generated in such a chassis.

Extrapolate this with the original 1.5TH/s Minirig being broken up into three separate components, and we begin to get a clearer picture of what is in store for customers.

That new monarch of theres probally wont even fit in a standard mobo by the time BFL is finished with it.

*accessories not included

Kouye

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Cuddling, censored, unicorn-shaped troll.

Quote from: erk on August 21, 2013, 06:33:52 AM

I am telling you your picture has nothing to do with the unit that shipped. For all I know it could have been a place holder pic used by the web developer.

This one has to be a placeholder too, right? They couldn't have lied that much. Grin

erk

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Quote from: Xian01 on August 21, 2013, 04:58:22 PM

Quote from: erk on August 21, 2013, 04:52:21 PM

the entire thread is BS based on something that never shipped, there would have been nothing wrong with using a hard drive style case except it looks boring

With respect, after all was said and done, we learned that the original form-factor of a USB hard drive was nowhere near the final delivery form-factor, nor would it be possible to dissipate the heat generated in such a chassis.

Extrapolate this with the original 1.5TH/s Minirig being broken up into three separate components, and we begin to get a clearer picture of what is in store for customers.

You are mixing up the FPGA and ASIC product lines.

If you want a real issue with the ASIC spec not the FPGA which this thread is about, then look at the Jalapeno 4.5GH/s spec from last year. The device was designed to run off USB power which only does 2.5watts typically. BFL were quoting for their chips at the time, 1watt per GH/s go figure!

Xian01

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Christian Antkow

Quote from: erk on August 21, 2013, 04:52:21 PM

the entire thread is BS based on something that never shipped, there would have been nothing wrong with using a hard drive style case except it looks boring

With respect, after all was said and done, we learned that the original form-factor of a USB hard drive was nowhere near the final delivery form-factor, nor would it be possible to dissipate the heat generated in such a chassis.

Extrapolate this with the original 1.5TH/s Minirig being broken up into three separate components, and we begin to get a clearer picture of what is in store for customers.

erk

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Quote from: bcp19 on August 21, 2013, 04:22:20 PM

Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on August 21, 2013, 04:10:58 PM

Quote from: mrb on August 21, 2013, 04:04:58 PM

CrashX, you are trolling. You, or someone, made the fake screenshot. There was never a picture of an ext hdd case on BFL's website.

NOT FAKE: http://web.archive.org/web/20110819122117/http://butterflylabs.com/products/

True, the picture is linked at: http://web.archive.org/web/20110819122117im_/http://butterflylabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/single-enclosure.png

so the picture did originally come from BFL

The picture is irrelevant, I could easily build a working miner in an external HD case, if it is one as you cant tell the size, HD case has USB and power sockets already. The point is that BFL never shipped that case, the selected a better looking cube case, the entire thread is BS based on something that never shipped, there would have been nothing wrong with using a hard drive style case except it looks boring. I see no point to this thread whatsoever except trolling FUD. It doesn't even belong in the scam section unless that's the motive of the OP.

If you check the web archive a few weeks later, that picture is gone, and a pre-order link added so you can actually place an order.

bcp19

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Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on August 21, 2013, 04:10:58 PM

Quote from: mrb on August 21, 2013, 04:04:58 PM

CrashX, you are trolling. You, or someone, made the fake screenshot. There was never a picture of an ext hdd case on BFL's website.

NOT FAKE: http://web.archive.org/web/20110819122117/http://butterflylabs.com/products/

True, the picture is linked at: http://web.archive.org/web/20110819122117im_/http://butterflylabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/single-enclosure.png

so the picture did originally come from BFL

Phinnaeus Gage

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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: mrb on August 21, 2013, 04:04:58 PM

CrashX, you are trolling. You, or someone, made the fake screenshot. There was never a picture of an ext hdd case on BFL's website.

NOT FAKE: http://web.archive.org/web/20110819122117/http://butterflylabs.com/products/

Also, from the FAQ page from the same date: http://web.archive.org/web/20110820030402/http://butterflylabs.com/faq/

Quote

1. Are your algorythms, PCB’s or other products available for purchase separately?

Yes, our intellectual property is available for licensing to other chip manufacturers. In most cases we can also make our individual components available to you depending on your needs.

So, what stops one of the owners of having another company on the dise purchasing produces from themselves--BFL?

I did it with my Drywall company when I ordered a million square fee of drywall from one of my companies and sold the drywall to main company.

Sonny, Josh, Jeff, Joe, et al. could easily have another company set up that we don't know about that is legally purchasing miners to mine bitcoins and we wouldn't be the wiser sans the increase of the hash rate/difficulty. If they are not doing it, then they truly are motherfuckin' idiots. Hell, the entity doesn't even have to be registered as a business just like most miners and pool owners are not.

mrb

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CrashX, you are trolling. You, or someone, made the fake screenshot. There was never a picture of an ext hdd case on BFL's website.

bcp19

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Quote from: E on August 21, 2013, 03:30:27 PM

Quote from: bcp19 on August 21, 2013, 01:38:36 PM

Quote from: Xian01 on August 21, 2013, 01:07:54 PM

Quote from: bcp19 on August 21, 2013, 12:57:50 PM

I quite well understand, you ASSUME short time poster = clueless noob. I'm sure you already know what happens when you ASSUME.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2796548

"I myself didn't order until June of this year, and unlike the majority of people I see whining, I am content to wait as I know they are in production and I will get what I paid for."

It goes without saying that we can safely assume you did not research your purchase ahead of time on these forums.

Understand that many of us have been following the sordid tale of Butterfly Labs much longer than you have. It would serve you well to research the anecdotes on these forums before disparaging the wisdom here.

I quite well understand market research and I predicted today back in May. I knew then that Difficulty was headed WELL north of 100million, it was just a matter of time. If BFL had had a better supply chain, that day would have already passed.

So spare me your purile nonsense. You have no clue as to what you speak.

BCP19, nice to see you over here... (my mersenneforum join date was 2002; I've seen you around

)

It's great that you evaluated the situation and decided to get into the ASIC mining arena with eyes open. It's true that it isn't appropriate for xian01 to judge your due diligence based on either your post history or your BFL purchase decision.

BUT, given that by June of this year (probably by february of this year) it was clear that Jalepeño orders would never recover their initial investment and would be at an operating loss by late 2013, AND given that the vast, vast majority of newish posters with recent BFL orders have demonstrated ignorance of that fact, xian01's inference was fairly rational absent additional information. You had of course provided that information in an earlier post, but I assume he missed that.

And of course xian01's comments are not directed at you as individual, but at you as a representative of a group of people he thinks got scammed, and should be interpreted that way.

Anyway, I know it never works to step into an exchange like this but I recognized your username and was in a mood to pipe up.

Oh crap! You found me...

Seriously though, it's nice to run across someone from Mersenne. Just a fyi, I prefer bcp19... otherwise it feels like you are shouting at me Wink

I do appreciate your comments though, your insight into both sides of this hit the nail on the head. The difference is that I knew how he was lumping me while he was assuming I was a clueless shill spouting nonsense I had no clue about.

Cheers.

k9quaint

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Quote from: SLok on August 21, 2013, 02:53:36 PM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on August 21, 2013, 07:01:52 AM

I love all these yahoos that are defending BFL, notice how they've been around for less than 4 months.. some of them only 2. They have yet to be scammed by BFL, so just let them blow their hot air.

Make sure to report back to us on the success of your BFL orders and all those BTCs you made... Cheesy

Of course this does not go for all the anti-BFL tools popping up in the last months. Still, funny to see most of them not being able to bring anything other than what they already brought.
Name:    CrashX
Date Registered:    July 30, 2013, 03:05:47 AM
Name:    scambutterflylabs
Date Registered:    June 01, 2013, 04:41:39 AM
Name:    millsdmb
Date Registered:    July 28, 2013, 04:47:49 AM
etcetera..
a bunch of shill shill shill shouters, a repetitive clown posting loads of random and dead links, some fools even cheering the dead links without actually checking them, idiot Bicknellski that couldn't see from an inch away at the Big Mining Picture that his luckily failed asic joke would not make the money back for the paper box it would come in. Boycott BFL! boycott BFL!, but keep showing your face in every BFL thread, "Warning: Trade with extreme caution!" Really, rockyracoon or thelostdutchman with only scams frauds thefts and lies on his menu that even played a prostitute online? The matriarchal Racoon can be really proud on you. lol, role on folks Grin

I hate to burst your bubble with actual data, but
a) The polls are vastly in favor of BFL being a scam and using underhanded tactics. Several hundred against BFL in fact.
b) Also, shills would work for BFL, not against them. You need a different noun for people who's opinions are negative towards BFL
c) the number of anti-BFL posts has increased dramatically here, especially the "my complaints were deleted from the BFL forums so I had to come here" type. I believe we can directly attribute that to you.

Perhaps we wouldn't have so many new accounts here if you would censor fewer threads on BFL forums. Perhaps you have only yourself to blame. Wink

Xian01

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Christian Antkow

Quote from: bcp19 on August 21, 2013, 01:38:36 PM

The difference here is that between you and I, I have probably lived on this earth 2-3 times as long as you have. I can remember the service stations having Gas Wars and the price of gasoline dropping to $.17. I remember watching man taking the first step onto the moon... LIVE. I have spent my time barely able to feed and clothe myself so that my children could have what I denied myself
...
So spare me your purile nonsense. You have no clue as to what you speak.

What was that you were saying about making assumptions ?

*hugs*

Topic: BFL was a SCAM from the beginning -EXT HDD case being sold as a miner in 2011. (Read 4451 times)