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Topic: BiblePay | 10% to Orphan-Charity | RANDOMX MINING | Sanctuaries (Masternodes) - page 148. (Read 243386 times)

newbie
Activity: 94
Merit: 0

@MIP I don't really understand the desire for greater MN payment. We have 3x fewer masternodes now, but the payment frequency has increased. To me, total MN reward amount if you total up every 3 days has not changed meaningfully.

@SEO_Account I don't think anyone expected this as regular practice but probably found out from inadvertently seeing their 1.55M old coin age donated 2.5BBP and got a nice reward for it the next day. MN and PoG reward structure will balance out as more people participate in PoG.

Per masternode it is the same amount of BBP but per 1,500,000 coins it is 1/3rd

The MN lockup used to be 1.5m,  and payout 4000-5000,  now its 4.5m and payout is 1500-2500.

Yes you receive more rewards at the moment, but its a much smaller in terms of actual return for the coin's locked up


When there were 600 MNs, you got paid every 3 days. Now there are less than 200 masternodes, you can get paid daily.

4k-5k every 3 days, or 1.5k-2.5k every day? According to your calculations, you actually get paid more with a 4.5M masternode on the top end of the range (5k vs 7.5k) if you take a reading every 3 days.

Let me be clear. I'm not opposed to increasing the reward for MN, but if it is due to receiving less than before, the perception seems faulty to me. Run the numbers...
Of course, the analysis only works now because we went from 600 masternodes to <200 masternodes... We still have a buffer of about 15-20 4.5M masternodes needing to come online before the economics don't favor the masternode investors.

Before with 4.5M you make 15k every 3 days now with 4.5m you make 5k every 3 days. That is the complaint, but no one is adding in the extra 40-50k they could make with POG every 3 days. (Obviously this reduces once everyone starts doing it)

edit: also no one is including the cost & time savings of not managing 3x as many VPS instances.
full member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 215
Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords
is abn req on? i'm still mining also with miners without coins (<5000bbp)

It will be on @ 126130, we had a couple delays today due to evaluating the Kenyan orphans, 4 more blocks now.

newbie
Activity: 94
Merit: 0

@MIP I don't really understand the desire for greater MN payment. We have 3x fewer masternodes now, but the payment frequency has increased. To me, total MN reward amount if you total up every 3 days has not changed meaningfully.

@SEO_Account I don't think anyone expected this as regular practice but probably found out from inadvertently seeing their 1.55M old coin age donated 2.5BBP and got a nice reward for it the next day. MN and PoG reward structure will balance out as more people participate in PoG.

Per masternode it is the same amount of BBP but per 1,500,000 coins it is 1/3rd

The MN lockup used to be 1.5m,  and payout 4000-5000,  now its 4.5m and payout is 1500-2500.

Yes you receive more rewards at the moment, but its a much smaller in terms of actual return for the coin's locked up

4,5M lockup & VPS cost for 1500-2500 / days or 2 days like a joke now : ))

Just unlock and POG if you had a 10 day old sanctuary right now you could unlock tithe 8000 and make 150K~ then relock and start sanc again. I don't know if it matters if we raise rewards or not eventually everyone is going to be doing that. If you raise reward % to sanctuaries than that will just hurt the smaller holders that don't have enough for a sanctuary yet no? It hurts the heat miners as well if we take from that budget too.
newbie
Activity: 81
Merit: 0

@MIP I don't really understand the desire for greater MN payment. We have 3x fewer masternodes now, but the payment frequency has increased. To me, total MN reward amount if you total up every 3 days has not changed meaningfully.

@SEO_Account I don't think anyone expected this as regular practice but probably found out from inadvertently seeing their 1.55M old coin age donated 2.5BBP and got a nice reward for it the next day. MN and PoG reward structure will balance out as more people participate in PoG.

Per masternode it is the same amount of BBP but per 1,500,000 coins it is 1/3rd

The MN lockup used to be 1.5m,  and payout 4000-5000,  now its 4.5m and payout is 1500-2500.

Yes you receive more rewards at the moment, but its a much smaller in terms of actual return for the coin's locked up

4,5M lockup & VPS cost for 1500-2500 / days or 2 days like a joke now : ))
jr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 4

@MIP I don't really understand the desire for greater MN payment. We have 3x fewer masternodes now, but the payment frequency has increased. To me, total MN reward amount if you total up every 3 days has not changed meaningfully.

@SEO_Account I don't think anyone expected this as regular practice but probably found out from inadvertently seeing their 1.55M old coin age donated 2.5BBP and got a nice reward for it the next day. MN and PoG reward structure will balance out as more people participate in PoG.

Per masternode it is the same amount of BBP but per 1,500,000 coins it is 1/3rd

The MN lockup used to be 1.5m,  and payout 4000-5000,  now its 4.5m and payout is 1500-2500.

Yes you receive more rewards at the moment, but its a much smaller in terms of actual return for the coin's locked up
newbie
Activity: 94
Merit: 0

@MIP I don't really understand the desire for greater MN payment. We have 3x fewer masternodes now, but the payment frequency has increased. To me, total MN reward amount if you total up every 3 days has not changed meaningfully.

@SEO_Account I don't think anyone expected this as regular practice but probably found out from inadvertently seeing their 1.55M old coin age donated 2.5BBP and got a nice reward for it the next day. MN and PoG reward structure will balance out as more people participate in PoG.

Per masternode it is the same amount of BBP but per 1,500,000 coins it is 1/3rd
newbie
Activity: 491
Merit: 0
is abn req on? i'm still mining also with miners without coins (<5000bbp)
newbie
Activity: 94
Merit: 0

On the sanc payment, impho, as things currently are with QT in place, those rewards would not improve; except in the case that If our price rose above the AUP trigger (.01 cent), the biblepay wallet would emit more coins per block.  This lower Sanc share is due to the GSC contract escrow % being held back at the gross level per block.  I understand both sides, that sancs feel they should get the gross reward first, then the GSC gets the net.   Since I am a sanc owner myself I feel that if the community feels this is important to discuss a higher reward, I encourage someone here to make a forum proposal, proposing a change, and then voted on (as I don't want to spearhead this myself).


As MN owner I feel that GSC reward has a bit too much weight. Maybe it's not necessary to go back to 40% and let PoBH+GSC dispute the other 40%, but maybe something in between would be fairer.



 Are you counting the fact that you can run a sanctuary for however long build up coin age unlock the funds POG and then relock the funds and start the sanctuary again?
full member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 215
Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords
Letter writing reward raised to 26.7K in the pool, please write and also please vote for the letters sitting in the queue.

full member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 215
Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords
I'm working with Pastor Joshua from Hope For Orphans Center in Kenya:
http://pool.biblepay.org/SAN/Mission/HopeForOrphansCenterKenya.pdf

We are evaluating a potential relationship.
His organization takes care of 26 orphans, mostly kids who had a parent that was diagnosed with HIV and they dumped the child in the streets or stopped feeding the child.

His org is in dire need of cash, so I told him we will evaluate potentially picking up some of the children.

If anyone wants to do due diligence with Joshua or his org please check them out and inform me if you find anything out of the ordinary.

Joshuas helper is making some BIO's for us to show how committed they are to integrating with us.


full member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 215
Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords

On the sanc payment, impho, as things currently are with QT in place, those rewards would not improve; except in the case that If our price rose above the AUP trigger (.01 cent), the biblepay wallet would emit more coins per block.  This lower Sanc share is due to the GSC contract escrow % being held back at the gross level per block.  I understand both sides, that sancs feel they should get the gross reward first, then the GSC gets the net.   Since I am a sanc owner myself I feel that if the community feels this is important to discuss a higher reward, I encourage someone here to make a forum proposal, proposing a change, and then voted on (as I don't want to spearhead this myself).


As MN owner I feel that GSC reward has a bit too much weight. Maybe it's not necessary to go back to 40% and let PoBH+GSC dispute the other 40%, but maybe something in between would be fairer.



You are the perfect man to spearhead this proposal Smiley.

MIP
newbie
Activity: 362
Merit: 0

On the sanc payment, impho, as things currently are with QT in place, those rewards would not improve; except in the case that If our price rose above the AUP trigger (.01 cent), the biblepay wallet would emit more coins per block.  This lower Sanc share is due to the GSC contract escrow % being held back at the gross level per block.  I understand both sides, that sancs feel they should get the gross reward first, then the GSC gets the net.   Since I am a sanc owner myself I feel that if the community feels this is important to discuss a higher reward, I encourage someone here to make a forum proposal, proposing a change, and then voted on (as I don't want to spearhead this myself).


As MN owner I feel that GSC reward has a bit too much weight. Maybe it's not necessary to go back to 40% and let PoBH+GSC dispute the other 40%, but maybe something in between would be fairer.

full member
Activity: 462
Merit: 103
Thank you. I am sending you a PM.
full member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 215
Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords
I thought that pog_coinagepercentage was in fact free balance percentage, because that's how I think it worked for the first 2 days when I tried it. But yesterday and today, I noticed it takes a much smaller balance than I configured. For example if I put .50, it uses about 25% of my free balance instead of 50%. Why?

Its based on the coin age percentage, in contrast to the free wallet balance percentage.

If all UTXOs in my wallet have exactly the same age, then coin age percentage and free balance percentage would be the same, right?

OK, now let's say I have two UTXOs in my wallet:
UTXO1: 10k BBP (10 days old) = 100k weight
UTXO2: 100k BBP (1 day old) = 100k weight

So in this particular case, these two outputs weigh the same, except I don't know how the algorithm then decides which of these two outputs to take if I want to use 50% of weight, more on that below.

Now take this example:
UTXO1: 100k BBP (1 day old) = 100k weight
UTXO2: 100k BBP (2 days old) = 200k weight

So the total weight is 300k. Then if I set pog_coinagepercentage to .50, that means I want to use half of my weight (150k). But will that use 100k of weight from UTXO1 and 50k of weight from UTXO2, or will it use 150k of weight just from UTXO2? Or any other combination in between?

Because if 100k of weight is taken from UTXO1 and 50k of weight is taken from UTXO2, the total amount of coins used is:
(100k/100k)*100k + (50k/200k)*100k = 1*100k + 0.25*100k = 100k + 25k = 125k

But if no weight is taken from UTXO1 and 150k of weight is taken from UTXO2, then the total amount of coins used is:
(0k/100k)*100k + (150k/200k)*100k = 0*100k + 0.75*100k = 0 + 75k = 75k

So how do we know which of these scenarios will happen (or any scenarios in between)?

Another thing which confuses me is how is one supposed to use all of their free coins? If I put pog_coinagepercentage=1, in the example above that should mean I want to use 300k weight (100% of it), so it should simply use all free coins (200k BBP). But in my experience it uses about 50% of all free coins. Why not all free coins, because 100% of coin age should be all coins, no?

If all UTXOs in my wallet have exactly the same age, then coin age percentage and free balance percentage would be the same, right?
->  Yes, correct.  If you had 6 coins, 3 with 1 million coin age, and 3 with 10 coin age, you have 3.1 MM total.  If you select .50 coinagepercentage, the wallet will use the first 2 (to get past 1.5MM in weight required), and would stop and you would be left with 4 coins (3 aged 10, 1 aged 1 mil ) that were unspent.



OK, now let's say I have two UTXOs in my wallet:
UTXO1: 10k BBP (10 days old) = 100k weight
UTXO2: 100k BBP (1 day old) = 100k weight

So in this particular case, these two outputs weigh the same, except I don't know how the algorithm then decides which of these two outputs to take if I want to use 50% of weight, more on that below.
->  The algorithm loops through your wallet by the timestamp of the UTXOs, so it would pick the one that was 10 days old (not because it has more coin age, but because it encountered it first in the set).


So the total weight is 300k. Then if I set pog_coinagepercentage to .50, that means I want to use half of my weight (150k). But will that use 100k of weight from UTXO1 and 50k of weight from UTXO2, or will it use 150k of weight just from UTXO2? Or any other combination in between?
-> It would be picking the older of the two, so you don't have control over which one it chooses.  It is true that it might overshoot the total, by choosing the higher one because it encountered it first.  Let me explain the rule and this will clear it up:

You have a balance of 10 million.  You choose .50 coin age.  You have 100 coins. Your total wallet has 5 million coin-age.
The selector will loop through the wallet searching for coins until it reaches 2.5 million coin age (thats half of the 5 million target).  You have no control over whether it picks five 1 mil coins or 25 smaller aged coins, it just finds coins until it reaches 2.5 mil coin age, then breaks out and uses those. 


So how do we know which of these scenarios will happen (or any scenarios in between)?
-> We don't, it could be any scenario in between, and I don't think that will be a problem, since the only anomaly that can happen is someone has a Very big coin and it uses it, but we spend coin age all the time and it constantly recycles, so in the grand scheme that should be OK, as the one with a very big single coin with coin age - that person could break it with the bankroll command, or simply use it and get a higher reward that day.


Another thing which confuses me is how is one supposed to use all of their free coins? If I put pog_coinagepercentage=1, in the example above that should mean I want to use 300k weight (100% of it), so it should simply use all free coins (200k BBP). But in my experience it uses about 50% of all free coins. Why not all free coins, because 100% of coin age should be all coins, no?

->  This scenario should be working, and I think it does work - you should definitely be able to spend all your coin-age if not limited by our 100K transaction size limit.  So please try this ; try setting the coinagepercentage to .99 and restart and try one, and if it does not work please give me the error from the log and we can work through this. 


full member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 215
Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords
** ABN Weight of 256K starts in 7 more blocks **

Due to a technical requirement in pool.biblepay being debugged in the background I delayed the commencement of ABN to block 126085.

full member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 215
Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords

Thanks, yeah, I found it.  So, it looks like your 1.85B point transaction made it into superblock 126095 and pays 359420.  Congrats.

It appears the root of the issue is exec analyze should add 205 blocks to the height typed in - another words, we pay the rewards in the superblock after the close of the current superblock.

Ill fix that now.

Ah I see, thank you for clearing that up. So the same can be said for the leaderboard in the QT wallet, which looks almost 1 day into the future, so to say? I just tested another 1k POG payment and now my leaderboard says "owed 1.6k", which then would be for the superblock the day after tomorrow (126300), right?


Yes, exactly, we should put a block range on the heading of the leaderboard, and that would clear that up.  Then the end of the range would be the future superblock height.

I suggested a way to see previous and next daily superblock for this reason.

The ROI is a great tool, thanks.

Well - you said someone on discord suggested that next-prev button idea; who suggested that idea?  That idea is more of a GUI enhancement that needs entered into github (which I know you said you need access to, I will check into that - that as a separate issue) - those are the types of issues that will be assigned to one of our devs if the resources for such enhancement are available while considering priorities.  I suggest helping us find more blockchain devs in the mean time. 


This block heading label is something that we can do now in this quarter that will show the users what superblock they are viewing in the leaderboard.



full member
Activity: 462
Merit: 103
I thought that pog_coinagepercentage was in fact free balance percentage, because that's how I think it worked for the first 2 days when I tried it. But yesterday and today, I noticed it takes a much smaller balance than I configured. For example if I put .50, it uses about 25% of my free balance instead of 50%. Why?

Its based on the coin age percentage, in contrast to the free wallet balance percentage.

If all UTXOs in my wallet have exactly the same age, then coin age percentage and free balance percentage would be the same, right?

OK, now let's say I have two UTXOs in my wallet:
UTXO1: 10k BBP (10 days old) = 100k weight
UTXO2: 100k BBP (1 day old) = 100k weight

So in this particular case, these two outputs weigh the same, except I don't know how the algorithm then decides which of these two outputs to take if I want to use 50% of weight, more on that below.

Now take this example:
UTXO1: 100k BBP (1 day old) = 100k weight
UTXO2: 100k BBP (2 days old) = 200k weight

So the total weight is 300k. Then if I set pog_coinagepercentage to .50, that means I want to use half of my weight (150k). But will that use 100k of weight from UTXO1 and 50k of weight from UTXO2, or will it use 150k of weight just from UTXO2? Or any other combination in between?

Because if 100k of weight is taken from UTXO1 and 50k of weight is taken from UTXO2, the total amount of coins used is:
(100k/100k)*100k + (50k/200k)*100k = 1*100k + 0.25*100k = 100k + 25k = 125k

But if no weight is taken from UTXO1 and 150k of weight is taken from UTXO2, then the total amount of coins used is:
(0k/100k)*100k + (150k/200k)*100k = 0*100k + 0.75*100k = 0 + 75k = 75k

So how do we know which of these scenarios will happen (or any scenarios in between)?

Another thing which confuses me is how is one supposed to use all of their free coins? If I put pog_coinagepercentage=1, in the example above that should mean I want to use 300k weight (100% of it), so it should simply use all free coins (200k BBP). But in my experience it uses about 50% of all free coins. Why not all free coins, because 100% of coin age should be all coins, no?
jr. member
Activity: 235
Merit: 3
Almost 27M BBP 24h volume on SouthXChange, this is good sign.

Edit: 45M now!
I was just coming here to post this! Incredible day of trading. Congratulations everyone!
full member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 215
Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords

Thanks, yeah, I found it.  So, it looks like your 1.85B point transaction made it into superblock 126095 and pays 359420.  Congrats.

It appears the root of the issue is exec analyze should add 205 blocks to the height typed in - another words, we pay the rewards in the superblock after the close of the current superblock.

Ill fix that now.

Ah I see, thank you for clearing that up. So the same can be said for the leaderboard in the QT wallet, which looks almost 1 day into the future, so to say? I just tested another 1k POG payment and now my leaderboard says "owed 1.6k", which then would be for the superblock the day after tomorrow (126300), right?


Yes, exactly, we should put a block range on the heading of the leaderboard, and that would clear that up.  Then the end of the range would be the future superblock height.

jr. member
Activity: 405
Merit: 3

Thanks, yeah, I found it.  So, it looks like your 1.85B point transaction made it into superblock 126095 and pays 359420.  Congrats.

It appears the root of the issue is exec analyze should add 205 blocks to the height typed in - another words, we pay the rewards in the superblock after the close of the current superblock.

Ill fix that now.

Ah I see, thank you for clearing that up. So the same can be said for the leaderboard in the QT wallet, which looks almost 1 day into the future, so to say? I just tested another 1k POG payment and now my leaderboard says "owed 1.6k", which then would be for the superblock the day after tomorrow (126300), right?
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