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Topic: BiblePay | 10% to Orphan-Charity | RANDOMX MINING | Sanctuaries (Masternodes) - page 275. (Read 243437 times)

member
Activity: 489
Merit: 12
BBP price spiked to 24 sats in SouthXchange a few hours ago, let's hope we have more of this action in the coming weeks.

Agreed. Also trade volume is way up the past couple of weeks.

btw thanks for the link you sent me a couple months ago for BBP price & volume data. I just noticed that it doesn't seem include all vol from all the exchanges BBP is traded on. I wonder if there's a way to get a complete historical picture of price/vol that includes all exchanges?

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/biblepay/historical-data/?start=20170715&end=20181206
newbie
Activity: 75
Merit: 0
Any issue with wallet at the min?

I get  "No block source found"

Log is full of these
2018-12-06 14:53:35 dnsseed thread exit
2018-12-06 14:53:36 Misbehaving: 202.97.251.248:40000 (0 -> 1)
2018-12-06 14:53:36 Misbehaving: 202.97.251.248:40000 (1 -> 2)
2018-12-06 14:53:42 Misbehaving: 95.179.177.50:40000 (0 -> 1)



I have tried wallet repair - stuck at 1year 18 weeks behind

Tried the zap command - zapwallettxes=1 - no result

PM
MIP
newbie
Activity: 362
Merit: 0
BBP price spiked to 24 sats in SouthXchange a few hours ago, let's hope we have more of this action in the coming weeks.
full member
Activity: 770
Merit: 100
when will be new december proposals in wallets? in pool exists,where is problem? thanks
full member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 111
"19% sounds wrong" - thanks - this is roughly an average for unpopular altcoins - not for bitcoin.

If you can cite the article, that will clear things up.

Quote from: bible_pay
You are saying "an algorithm not based on hashpower"; thats POG

I'm talking about mining where you do a split on the reward so it is true tithing (10%) as opposed to enrolling people into to giving. This way, you don't even need to own BBP to participate, nor set up a recurring giving scheme. Fewer steps to participate is better right? In the end, it is to benefit to charity, so perhaps the mechanics aren't as important.

Curious, is the orphan foundation keys now shared? multisig? or still just one owner?
full member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 215
Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords
Because we are learning from our past that pure POBH on CPUs didn't work by itself, remember?  Remember the botnets and the upgrade problems?  CPU mining has an element of greed in it because it is easily replicatable across nodes, and therefore it ends up rewarding the botnet who spent the most on electricity.

Thats the whole point of POG addressing this- POG rewards those who tithe the most by adding them in the pool with tithe_weight.

I don't understand rest of the paragraph - it would need expanded to contain critical details to be evaluated without those it's not valuable.

I said an algorithm that isn't based on hash power. So, any BiblePay node automatically solo mines with a blank biblepay.conf file using very little CPU (1 thread at 1% CPU) w/ an equitable distribution across all the nodes. 90% to miner and 10% tithe to Orphan Foundation.

The 19% number sounds a little off to me.

http://fortune.com/2017/11/25/lost-bitcoins/

I've ready that figure stated but typically with % BTC is believed to be lost (because those BTC addresses have not moved around in a long time).

The 19% per year sounds wrong to me to.

In terms of voting, SmartCash has masternodes, but their voting system works based on your coin balance. If you have 500 SmartCash, you get 500 votes for a particular proposal. I don't know if masternodes can vote or not, but if they can... it does allow more people to vote even those without 1.55M for a masternode.  https://vote.smartcash.cc/

You are saying "an algorithm not based on hashpower"; thats POG.  Forgive me if Im missing something, but it sounds like you are saying this:

"If ABCcoin had the miraculous, its price would go up".

Right, this is already known.  Thats why I'm thinking POG would have a bright potential. 

(The algorithms in prod over all coins are known; so another words I don't see what you mean by an algorithm not based on hashpower).

"19% sounds wrong" - thanks - this is roughly an average for unpopular altcoins - not for bitcoin.

full member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 111


Who can guess where from the Bible this is?
full member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 111
Because we are learning from our past that pure POBH on CPUs didn't work by itself, remember?  Remember the botnets and the upgrade problems?  CPU mining has an element of greed in it because it is easily replicatable across nodes, and therefore it ends up rewarding the botnet who spent the most on electricity.

Thats the whole point of POG addressing this- POG rewards those who tithe the most by adding them in the pool with tithe_weight.

I don't understand rest of the paragraph - it would need expanded to contain critical details to be evaluated without those it's not valuable.

I said an algorithm that isn't based on hash power. So, any BiblePay node automatically solo mines with a blank biblepay.conf file using very little CPU (1 thread at 1% CPU) w/ an equitable distribution across all the nodes. 90% to miner and 10% tithe to Orphan Foundation.

The 19% number sounds a little off to me.

http://fortune.com/2017/11/25/lost-bitcoins/

I've ready that figure stated but typically with % BTC is believed to be lost (because those BTC addresses have not moved around in a long time).

The 19% per year sounds wrong to me to.

In terms of voting, SmartCash has masternodes, but their voting system works based on your coin balance. If you have 500 SmartCash, you get 500 votes for a particular proposal. I don't know if masternodes can vote or not, but if they can... it does allow more people to vote even those without 1.55M for a masternode.  https://vote.smartcash.cc/
jr. member
Activity: 226
Merit: 2

   I think people need to consider the effect of how many coins are lost on average - I dont have the study in front of me - but an average of 19% of digital coins in hard drives are lost per year - and its higher on the percent scale for coins that have billions of quantity like us.  So I can offer a counter argument that in scenario B when we have 2000 laptops mining as compared to 200 PODC miners, not only did they collectively spend as much in electricty, but they lost more biblepay coins.


If you think of it, could you dig up that article later and share it here? The 19% number sounds a little off to me. If we start with 100% of a coin, after the first year we're looking at 81%, then 65%, then 53% at the end of the third year, if my math is correct. This would mean about 50% of a cryptocurrency disappears every 3 years? Someone smarter than I, please compute how much BTC is left with a 19% loss per year since its beginning? I'm just having difficulty believing those numbers. If this effect happens smoothly across coins, then it's not much of an advantage to BBP, as there are many many coins that will suffer the same effect.  If the number of users losing their wallets is significant, wouldn't it be safe to assume that a certain number of them would just give up the on whichever coin instead of starting over? Wouldn't this "benefit" have some loss of users as a side effect?

That BBP would benefit by its users losing coins at an even higher rate,  is puzzling to me why it hasn't provided upwards pressure on its own?


full member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 111
any problem around block 87315? it takes eternity... 2hrs to jump to next block

Yes strange. See other blocks before and there are 30 min blocks. Unfortunately, there is two difficulty pow_difficulty and difficulty. It seems pow_difficulty should show up on explorer, but instead takes difficulty.  Anyway, PoW difficulty went up to 8k and the CPUs couldn't submit an acceptable hash. You can see PoW difficulty went down to 781 on the next block.
full member
Activity: 1260
Merit: 115
Regarding Biblepay's rebase with Dash, status of code rebase is 64% of the command line daemon and client (QT UI will be left for later on).
I'm leaving miner stuff for the last phase to avoid rebasing code that might change.

After pure code rebase I see these tasks:
- Review with Rob all the biblepay code conficts with new Dash features (DIP2, 3, 4)
- Then try to compile biblepayd, biblepay-cli
- Create a workable devnet.
- Meanwhile in parallel start the QT rebase effort.
- When devnet is working, move on to testnet and check through the masternode migration plan, to test that each step is flowing fine.

Every task in this list will require considerable time and effort, but it will be well worth it I think.

Right now MIP is working full time on Dash commits - and has exceeded my expectations btw in every way

Thank you for all of your hard work MIP! AMAZING PROGRESS!

You have my vote for any budget funds you need for your work!

(Is there an address where we can send you donations?)
newbie
Activity: 48
Merit: 0
Regarding the live web poll : The Sanc poll has a higher trust level so it dictates the preproduction programming to send POG to testnet.  The web poll is for informational purposes.  Its not expired yet.  All of the comments are valuable - because I care about my users, investors and the community and take all of these opinions to heart.  

What is the rule about that proposal (for if POG is a winner or not)? If it passes in the budget like the other proposals? (10% net yes votes at the next budget trigger?)
newbie
Activity: 48
Merit: 0

As you can see the Sanc poll is showing a lot of interest in pog2!  And I am holding off on my vote weight to see how its going before weighing in completely.

1) I think you are not neutral and would like to go with POG tbh. I think a lot of people (if not everyone here) know so.
2) You have an interesting point. By going with the proposal way, that means that all the current PODC miners with their stake locked in PODC (instead of masternodes) cannot express their opinion right now.
3) Which brings me to this point, you want adoption by attracting more miners but do not seem to give a lot of weight about the opinion of your current miners. Seems a bit paradoxical to me.

Since I edited my message before you saw the new point. Please see 3. and how it relates to 2. after reading below.

You are incorrect. It is a fact that current valid stakes for PODC are not currently used for masternode voting else they would not be able to use these funds to stake (since they would be locked in masternodes). They may have both PODC stakes and masternode, but they also may not, no one knows. I believe that the majority does not.  Even if some of them did, their voting power would be greatly reduced because they would not be able to use their current PODC stake to vote on the proposal.


No - incorrect ;  You have no idea how many Sancs a PODC miner owns.


Please, do not continue to argue on this thread, let's stop here.




This is not what I said...can you read my post? Let me highlight the part you missed.

"Even if some of them did, their voting power would be greatly reduced because they would not be able to use their current PODC stake to vote on the proposal."
full member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 215
Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords

As you can see the Sanc poll is showing a lot of interest in pog2!  And I am holding off on my vote weight to see how its going before weighing in completely.

1) I think you are not neutral and would like to go with POG tbh. I think a lot of people (if not everyone here) know so.
2) You have an interesting point. By going with the proposal way, that means that all the current PODC miners with their stake locked in PODC (instead of masternodes) cannot express their opinion right now.
3) Which brings me to this point, you want adoption by attracting more miners but do not seem to give a lot of weight about the opinion of your current miners. Seems a bit paradoxical to me.

Since I edited my message before you saw the new point. Please see 3. and how it relates to 2. after reading below.

You are incorrect. It is a fact that current valid stakes for PODC are not currently used for masternode voting else they would not be able to use these funds to stake (since they would be locked in masternodes). They may have both PODC stakes and masternode, but they also may not, no one knows. I believe that the majority does not.  Even if some of them did, their voting power would be greatly reduced because they would not be able to use their current PODC stake to vote on the proposal.


No - incorrect ;  You have no idea how many Sancs a PODC miner owns.


Please, do not continue to argue on this thread, let's stop here.



Regarding the live web poll : The Sanc poll has a higher trust level so it dictates the preproduction programming to send POG to testnet.  The web poll is for informational purposes.  Its not expired yet.  All of the comments are valuable - because I care about my users, investors and the community and take all of these opinions to heart. 



newbie
Activity: 48
Merit: 0
I never said the live web poll was not valuable, I just gave it a value lower than Sanc polls.  It's not expired yet; so it should stay.  It will stay because people are still making comments on the thread also.  And I would like to see how it ends.

Can you spell out the rules then? How will we know which option is the winner? Who decides in the end?
newbie
Activity: 48
Merit: 0

As you can see the Sanc poll is showing a lot of interest in pog2!  And I am holding off on my vote weight to see how its going before weighing in completely.

1) I think you are not neutral and would like to go with POG tbh. I think a lot of people (if not everyone here) know so.
2) You have an interesting point. By going with the proposal way, that means that all the current PODC miners with their stake locked in PODC (instead of masternodes) cannot express their opinion right now.
3) Which brings me to this point, you want adoption by attracting more miners but do not seem to give a lot of weight about the opinion of your current miners. Seems a bit paradoxical to me.

Since I edited my message before you saw the new point. Please see 3. and how it relates to 2. after reading below.

You are incorrect. It is a fact that current valid stakes for PODC are not currently used for masternode voting else they would not be able to use these funds to stake (since they would be locked in masternodes). They may have both PODC stakes and masternode, but they also may not, no one knows. I believe that the majority does not.  Even if some of them did, their voting power would be greatly reduced because they would not be able to use their current PODC stake to vote on the proposal.
full member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 215
Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords

Its not true that Im manipulating polls; Togo pointed out the danger of relying on multiple choice web polls and I agree.  As you can see the Sanc poll is showing a lot of interest in pog2!  And I am holding off on my vote weight to see how its going before weighing in completely.


Not sure if that was addressed to me but:

1) I never talked about you manipulating polls.
2) I am just stating facts. The poll currently opened on the forum doesn't matter since you went with the masternode proposal route. People are still voting on this poll. Close it since it is of no use now and will avoid confusion.

Its not true that Im manipulating polls; Togo pointed out the danger of relying on multiple choice web polls and I agree.  As you can see the Sanc poll is showing a lot of interest in pog2!  And I am holding off on my vote weight to see how its going before weighing in completely.

1) I think you are not neutral and would like to go with POG tbh. I think a lot of people (if not everyone here) know so.
2) You have an interesting point. By going with the proposal way, that means that all the current PODC miners with their stake locked in PODC (instead of masternodes) cannot expressed their opinion right now.

I never said the live web poll was not valuable, I just gave it a value lower than Sanc polls.  It's not expired yet; so it should stay.  It will stay because people are still making comments on the thread also.  And I would like to see how it ends.

(Not worried about who specifically said I was manipulating - I wanted to express my opinion on how we ended up with a sanc poll).

Your opinion about me being biased towards POG vs PODC is based on your perception that I favor POG because I like it personally, but in reality I would vote for POG based on the easy-adoption potential, not because I like POG more than cancer mining.  So let me clear the record for you:  I would like to use the algorithm that provides easy adoption - and Im neutral about cancer mining vs POG. 

On #2, no - Incorrect - you have no idea how many PODC miners have sancs.  However, Sancs should make the financial decisions for this community.  Therefore we should have a Prod proposal for POG *after* the testnet era is over.  This will give much clearer insight for everone on if it should be promoted to prod.  (Even if we use POG to replace POBH for a while - Im saying this would be a proposal to promote POG to replace PODC for a certain mandatory in the future).  Thats clearly a sanctuary poll and decision.








newbie
Activity: 48
Merit: 0
Its not true that Im manipulating polls; Togo pointed out the danger of relying on multiple choice web polls and I agree.  

Not sure if that was addressed to me but:

1) I never talked about you manipulating polls.
2) I am just stating facts. The poll currently opened on the forum doesn't matter since you went with the masternode proposal route. People are still voting on this poll. Close it since it is of no use now and will avoid confusion.

As you can see the Sanc poll is showing a lot of interest in pog2!  And I am holding off on my vote weight to see how its going before weighing in completely.

1) I think you are not neutral and would like to go with POG tbh. I think a lot of people (if not everyone here) know so.
2) You have an interesting point. By going with the proposal way, that means that all the current PODC miners with their stake locked in PODC (instead of masternodes) cannot express their opinion right now.
3) Which brings me to this point, you want adoption by attracting more miners but do not seem to give a lot of weight about the opinion of your current miners. Seems a bit paradoxical to me.
full member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 215
Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords
Why even have PoG when you can get rid of PoDC and use PoBH exclusively? Just change the terms of mining rewards. PoBH distributes 100%. 90% goes to wallet and 10% of that goes to tithing as a split payment... isn't that true tithing where you give 10% of your earnings? Have it automatically solo mine with no biblepay.conf . All you need to participate it just keep the wallet running 24/7. The algorithm wouldn't be based on hash power but some other algorithm that is more equitable where you are rewarded for running the network.

Because we are learning from our past that pure POBH on CPUs didn't work by itself, remember?  Remember the botnets and the upgrade problems?  CPU mining has an element of greed in it because it is easily replicatable across nodes, and therefore it ends up rewarding the botnet who spent the most on electricity.

Thats the whole point of POG addressing this- POG rewards those who tithe the most by adding them in the pool with tithe_weight.

I don't understand rest of the paragraph - it would need expanded to contain critical details to be evaluated without those it's not valuable.


full member
Activity: 1176
Merit: 215
Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords
I'm sorry but just by reading the last few posts you wrote, I don't understand how that system is supposedly much easier to understand.

You talked about the terms used by PODC as a way to show how difficult it is to understand, but POG has quite a few of them too as someone previously pointed that out.

diff, min coin age, max tithe amount, min coin amount, reaper reward, sower reward etc..

There are way more variables you need to take into account to properly understand and estimate how "profitable" mining Biblepay would be and if you should mine it or mine another coin.

Again, I think you will end up with very confused people asking why their wallet is "stealing" their coins and sending them to the foundation address, why they're giving x amount of coins but just receiving y, people making a mistake and asking if the foundation can refund them, etc.

Also, can we just close the poll/thread in the other forum since it obviously won't be taken into account last the last poll?


I don't know if one should laugh or cry over this.

Look on the bright side: we are discussing a possible algorithm change openly with people pointing out potential exploits and challenges. It is like a board meeting with nothing paid to consultants Smiley

I am against POG in general since it sounds like a lottery (with somewhat predictable results and a definite profit in the end of the day) which reduces the cost of minting coins. When you tithe 300 BBP and get 4800 BBP (more or less, according to a calculation based on 100k BBP tithe cap and 1.6M BBP emission per day), you have no reason to be picky about the market price to sell them. Most people will just dump these easy earnings for BTC. My personal belief and experience is that nothing without effort and pain behind it holds any value. PODC is hard work and pain (if you are not just renting out cloud servers).

We should keep discussing, not until consensus, but until a clear majority of opinion. My biggest worry at the moment is that the progress seems to be too fast. We had a vote in the forum that ended with the rejection of POG. A bit too quickly, POG-2 was put on the table with another poll for it (which is going towards rejection of it again, by the way); and then over a quick public talk between Togo and Rob we now have a masternode proposal being voted. Why the rush? I mean, the bear market is not going anywhere, and we are already close to rock bottom. Even junk coins with no features or future potential have 200kUSD market cap, and we are a bit above that (despite all the pros and provable charity associated with BBP). It's not like we will self-destruct if we continue things as they are, right?

I see a tiny bit of your point on these aspects, however I have to disagree with all of it in general.

I still think easy-adoption is a key feature for wallet replication and therefore mass user count.  We had one poll that was shot down for a completely different idea - POG1 - which had the uncertainty principle in it.  POG2 isn't at all like a lottery.  The difficulty level is given up front before you tithe.  If you meet the parameters and successfully tithe, you are sure and definitely in the pool and will receive a reward (actually you will receive 12 rewards for one tithe) so its not like a lottery.

As far as electricity costs and suffering, this is the part I mostly agree with - miners will be reluctant to sell coins if they are sold at a loss on the exchange therefore we will have a basic propensity to maintain a satoshi level at or above the electric cost.  But is that our greatest mission?  To maintain a price of our commodity at the electric rate?  I say no it shouldnt be.   I think people need to consider the effect of how many coins are lost on average - I dont have the study in front of me - but an average of 19% of digital coins in hard drives are lost per year - and its higher on the percent scale for coins that have billions of quantity like us.  So I can offer a counter argument that in scenario B when we have 2000 laptops mining as compared to 200 PODC miners, not only did they collectively spend as much in electricty, but they lost more biblepay coins.  I dont mean to say this in a negative way, people have to make backups to keep their coins.  But the point is 20% of those users will end up losing coins because they lose their laptops or computers.  So this is the alternative with easy adoption.

Also these new users become valuable community members.


Its not true that Im manipulating polls; Togo pointed out the danger of relying on multiple choice web polls and I agree.  As you can see the Sanc poll is showing a lot of interest in pog2!  And I am holding off on my vote weight to see how its going before weighing in completely.


Let's face it:  we have the most vocal existing PODC miners with their BIASED opinions posting here!  There you have it, Im neutral and looking for the best foundation for biblepay.  Lets work together.





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