I remember Rob and Sunk were both talking with SimpleSwap a couple months ago,
were we able to make a deal with them?
https://simpleswap.io/
Topic: BiblePay | 10% to Orphan-Charity | RANDOMX MINING | Sanctuaries (Masternodes) - page 278. (Read 243437 times)
December 03, 2018, 05:21:49 AM
December 03, 2018, 04:04:54 AM
I got an offer for a listing in a Payment Gateway service.
Don't know how reliable this is, and listing fees are big, in any case it's worth a look
https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=329.0
Don't know how reliable this is, and listing fees are big, in any case it's worth a look
https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=329.0
December 03, 2018, 01:00:05 AM
At that level you can only tithe 150 bbp from coins you own that are older than 30 days and more valuable than 12,500.
It seems I've misunderstood a lot of what you've written. This is getting too complicated for me to understand. Maybe the marketing will be able to explain it so even a 5 year can understand.
On the PoG difficulty. None of my coins are older than 7 days because all my funds get swept into the main CPID linked BBP address. How does this affect PoG difficulty and being able to PoG mine?
I'm all for safety - testnet - phasing in as POBH enhancement - and then replacing PODC if POG2 works as expected.
I appreciate you being open to this as any sudden changes mean PoDC miners are left alienated. It's a big change and the poll is split on the PoGv2 vs making PoDC easier: https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=327.0
Too bad you can't make a BOINC project out of PoG v2 somehow!
December 02, 2018, 08:34:55 PM
do you think grc pool will be creating masternodes? i dont think so, they buy stake to make coins. if it will not be posible, they just sell bbp coins and continue with only own coin
diff, min coin age, max tithe amount, min coin amount, reaper reward, sower reward etc..
i think this is too complicated, it will be same like now, new user will be lost in terms
if we need something simple, just make wallet with start/stop mining button, no setup, nothing, just click to mine
diff, min coin age, max tithe amount, min coin amount, reaper reward, sower reward etc..
i think this is too complicated, it will be same like now, new user will be lost in terms
if we need something simple, just make wallet with start/stop mining button, no setup, nothing, just click to mine
December 02, 2018, 07:25:17 PM
And the rich get richer...
How do the rich get richer in BiblePay?
If BiblePay value goes up 2x, all BiblePay coins value goes up 2x, someone elses doesnt somehow go up 3x? >.>
Also from what I have read, most rich people lose their money by the 2nd generation of their family:
"About seven in 10 wealthy families lose their fortune by the second generation, according to a study of more than 3,200 high-net worth families by the Williams Group wealth consultancy. By the third generation that number has jumped to 90%"
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-why-90-of-rich-people-squander-their-fortunes-2017-04-23
The only thing I could think of for someone rich to get richer in BiblePay is if they owned majority of masternodes and voted themselves all the budget rewards every month for free, but that sounds like a really bad strategy, How does that increase the value of BiblePay? You would do it one time and people would leave and price would go down.
The Free Market is truly in control, BiblePay is bound by the Free Market, BiblePay has to appeal to investors, miners, users, etc. And Investors can leave, Miners can leave, People can choose not to download and install BiblePay or choose not to update to latest version of the code, etc etc. BiblePay can only grow through adoption. BiblePay has to appeal to people to succeed.
=
On the topic of Proof of Giving (POG) vs Proof of Distributed Computing (PODC), I believe removing staking will lead to more masternodes being created meaning that all current masternode operators will make LESS money
Multiple people believe that miners will sell their stake if staking is removed, Im not sure, in my eyes BBP price is lower than its ever been, so anyone selling would be selling at a heavy loss (but some may really need the money and/or are willing to take the loss and move on to something else)
December 02, 2018, 05:59:28 PM
hmmm maybe 
in this case i'll just need to know how i can tithe before others do it?
if limit will be 150bbp then i'll use 2 wallets and i will have 300 etc...
in this case i'll just need to know how i can tithe before others do it?
if limit will be 150bbp then i'll use 2 wallets and i will have 300 etc...
Its addressed in the wiki:
https://wiki.biblepay.org/Proof-of-Giving-II
Not possible.
Please guys read the wiki first.
A) You can't tithe just any coin, you must tithe a coin with coin_age > diff level
B) If you split wallets you just split up your own coins, that means you have half the coins available to tithe with (see Difficulty Requirement attributes, there are 3 to the algo near bottom of page).
December 02, 2018, 05:38:04 PM
hmmm maybe
in this case i'll just need to know how i can tithe before others do it?
if limit will be 150bbp then i'll use 2 wallets and i will have 300 etc...
in this case i'll just need to know how i can tithe before others do it?
if limit will be 150bbp then i'll use 2 wallets and i will have 300 etc...
December 02, 2018, 05:30:47 PM
Let's give a big thanks to QIEX for donating all of 2018's trading profits to our orphan foundation!
QIEX has donated: 106,490 BBP! Thanks QIEX!
QIEX interview with BBP founder:
http://pool.biblepay.org/docs/QIEX%20BBP%20ACCESS.pdf
** NOTE **
Ricky (CEO) and Linda (Bus Development) from QIEX pledge to notify the Chinese Crypto-Whales of BiblePay over the next quarter. They will be introducing the whales to their exchange and promoting biblepay. We will keep everyone updated on this and how we are received.
QIEX has donated: 106,490 BBP! Thanks QIEX!
QIEX interview with BBP founder:
http://pool.biblepay.org/docs/QIEX%20BBP%20ACCESS.pdf
** NOTE **
Ricky (CEO) and Linda (Bus Development) from QIEX pledge to notify the Chinese Crypto-Whales of BiblePay over the next quarter. They will be introducing the whales to their exchange and promoting biblepay. We will keep everyone updated on this and how we are received.
Rob, 106,409 is it a lot?
When we sent more, you never wrote thank you. what is going on?
Hmm, it's kind of a confusing question, what was given?
December 02, 2018, 05:26:46 PM
Voting with masternodes is of course technologically much better than voting on the forum, but if the poll mainly concerns miners who probably don't have masternodes, then it's not very adequate.
In another coin I follow, they have true governance without masternodes! And it's actually very simple: 1 coin = 1 vote. So literally everyone who holds the coins can vote, and their weight is precisely equal to their "skin in the game". Can't have it more fair than that. And the voting process itself is also very simple, you just sign a message from your wallet which contains "YES", "NO" or "ABSTAIN". In that particular coin, you have to copy that signed message to a website to actually vote, but if we can go a step further than that, everything could be done in the wallet with just a few clicks. Rob, what do you think?
In another coin I follow, they have true governance without masternodes! And it's actually very simple: 1 coin = 1 vote. So literally everyone who holds the coins can vote, and their weight is precisely equal to their "skin in the game". Can't have it more fair than that. And the voting process itself is also very simple, you just sign a message from your wallet which contains "YES", "NO" or "ABSTAIN". In that particular coin, you have to copy that signed message to a website to actually vote, but if we can go a step further than that, everything could be done in the wallet with just a few clicks. Rob, what do you think?
I think that our sanctuaries represent the coin as-is and they have enough exposure to mining algorithms to guide our future in almost every situation. Especially since the spirit of the poll is "future easy adoption" (and includes elements of changing the payout mechanism from a superblock to a pool) - anything regarding the financial future of the coin will ultimately need to be a sanc poll for prod. (This poll is a pre-production proposal however).
However, in relation to : User Weight vs Sanctuary weight for other polls, I do feel there will be occasions when we want input from users (based on coin-weight) - for example for a poll that has something to do with multiple choice UI experience that doesn't materially make a financial decision for biblepay. In that case, I think it would be useful to have in-wallet voting that allows multiple choice answers based on users total coin-weight. I want to have a chance to talk about this in more detail, but for now, we have the roots of something in the wallet in test now related to business objects that allow a user to vote on a gospel link or Christian Video using coin-weight. I'm thinking in the future we expand this by adding a Poll object, and allow it to be votable.
December 02, 2018, 05:18:05 PM
finaly i read all pog, pog2 and so articles
if i understand it correctly, then everyting what i need is tithe some coins - so no hashpower or many machines needed
maximum tithe is for user or for all together?
i see few problems:
tithes will go to maximum quickly - it is reasonable, if i can tithe more and gain even more, i will tithe... so tithes will hit maximum or more quickly (if max is per user, i'll just create more users if needed). it will bouncing somewhere around sum of tithes= sum of payouts. so how much i tithe, that much i get back = not interesting
if algo limit this somehow and there will be some limit for tithe, for example max tithe 10bbp, and payouts will be 100, then i'll create many accounts(10,100,1000+...), until it will be profitable for me. and of course it will end with same, what you tithe that much you get = not interesting
lets say it will be somehow... i'll tithe 1000, and get 10000. everytihing what i need is tithe from wallet = no costs for me. so to get profit i'll take any price over 0. in other words i'll invest nothing so there is no cover with runnig costs (electricity, price of cloud servers...). i'll pay 0 and sell rewards for 1$, why not? it is still profit for me, for nothing. i could not see reason why price should stay or go higher. equation is simple, coin price is cost price. if coin price is much higher, then lots of miners come or (as in bbp case) price will go down. without real expenses, coin price is 0
this will end with all coins as tithes, everybody gets nothing, exchanges will be overloaded with tithe coins, price will be 1 sat or less
and as bonus: now there is lot of big miners who mining bbp as bonus beside other coins like byteball or grc. if there will not be podc, then they switch back to their primary coin and dump bbp on exchanges (10+ milions)
if i understand it correctly, then everyting what i need is tithe some coins - so no hashpower or many machines needed
maximum tithe is for user or for all together?
i see few problems:
tithes will go to maximum quickly - it is reasonable, if i can tithe more and gain even more, i will tithe... so tithes will hit maximum or more quickly (if max is per user, i'll just create more users if needed). it will bouncing somewhere around sum of tithes= sum of payouts. so how much i tithe, that much i get back = not interesting
if algo limit this somehow and there will be some limit for tithe, for example max tithe 10bbp, and payouts will be 100, then i'll create many accounts(10,100,1000+...), until it will be profitable for me. and of course it will end with same, what you tithe that much you get = not interesting
lets say it will be somehow... i'll tithe 1000, and get 10000. everytihing what i need is tithe from wallet = no costs for me. so to get profit i'll take any price over 0. in other words i'll invest nothing so there is no cover with runnig costs (electricity, price of cloud servers...). i'll pay 0 and sell rewards for 1$, why not? it is still profit for me, for nothing. i could not see reason why price should stay or go higher. equation is simple, coin price is cost price. if coin price is much higher, then lots of miners come or (as in bbp case) price will go down. without real expenses, coin price is 0
this will end with all coins as tithes, everybody gets nothing, exchanges will be overloaded with tithe coins, price will be 1 sat or less
and as bonus: now there is lot of big miners who mining bbp as bonus beside other coins like byteball or grc. if there will not be podc, then they switch back to their primary coin and dump bbp on exchanges (10+ milions)
I think you missed one of the elements of POG2: The difficulty algorithm (and maybe the coin-age also, and you also missed the tithe_cap).
If we have a target of 100K per day tithes, and sowers have already tithed 50K of that in the first 2 hours of the day, the difficulty would have jumped to 32,767.
At that level you can only tithe 150 bbp from coins you own that are older than 30 days and more valuable than 12,500.
Knowing this info, I think it materially changes all of your post.
(On a side note I disagree that miners with laptops have 0 electric cost; I think they might be equal to more like 3 satoshi and then you have the common-sense forward value of biblepay, so its hard to conject < 5 satoshi even with an army of 20,000 laptops, but this is all speculation. Most likely with the wider spread holdings, individuals would be Less apt to sell and more apt to hold - because of the hope element).
I do believe if we unlocked 100 Million BBP we would see a 33 mil liquidation, but I think it would quickly dissapate as whales bought it up for 4 satoshi.
December 02, 2018, 04:22:27 PM
finaly i read all pog, pog2 and so articles
if i understand it correctly, then everyting what i need is tithe some coins - so no hashpower or many machines needed
maximum tithe is for user or for all together?
i see few problems:
tithes will go to maximum quickly - it is reasonable, if i can tithe more and gain even more, i will tithe... so tithes will hit maximum or more quickly (if max is per user, i'll just create more users if needed). it will bouncing somewhere around sum of tithes= sum of payouts. so how much i tithe, that much i get back = not interesting
if algo limit this somehow and there will be some limit for tithe, for example max tithe 10bbp, and payouts will be 100, then i'll create many accounts(10,100,1000+...), until it will be profitable for me. and of course it will end with same, what you tithe that much you get = not interesting
lets say it will be somehow... i'll tithe 1000, and get 10000. everytihing what i need is tithe from wallet = no costs for me. so to get profit i'll take any price over 0. in other words i'll invest nothing so there is no cover with runnig costs (electricity, price of cloud servers...). i'll pay 0 and sell rewards for 1$, why not? it is still profit for me, for nothing. i could not see reason why price should stay or go higher. equation is simple, coin price is cost price. if coin price is much higher, then lots of miners come or (as in bbp case) price will go down. without real expenses, coin price is 0
this will end with all coins as tithes, everybody gets nothing, exchanges will be overloaded with tithe coins, price will be 1 sat or less
and as bonus: now there is lot of big miners who mining bbp as bonus beside other coins like byteball or grc. if there will not be podc, then they switch back to their primary coin and dump bbp on exchanges (10+ milions)
if i understand it correctly, then everyting what i need is tithe some coins - so no hashpower or many machines needed
maximum tithe is for user or for all together?
i see few problems:
tithes will go to maximum quickly - it is reasonable, if i can tithe more and gain even more, i will tithe... so tithes will hit maximum or more quickly (if max is per user, i'll just create more users if needed). it will bouncing somewhere around sum of tithes= sum of payouts. so how much i tithe, that much i get back = not interesting
if algo limit this somehow and there will be some limit for tithe, for example max tithe 10bbp, and payouts will be 100, then i'll create many accounts(10,100,1000+...), until it will be profitable for me. and of course it will end with same, what you tithe that much you get = not interesting
lets say it will be somehow... i'll tithe 1000, and get 10000. everytihing what i need is tithe from wallet = no costs for me. so to get profit i'll take any price over 0. in other words i'll invest nothing so there is no cover with runnig costs (electricity, price of cloud servers...). i'll pay 0 and sell rewards for 1$, why not? it is still profit for me, for nothing. i could not see reason why price should stay or go higher. equation is simple, coin price is cost price. if coin price is much higher, then lots of miners come or (as in bbp case) price will go down. without real expenses, coin price is 0
this will end with all coins as tithes, everybody gets nothing, exchanges will be overloaded with tithe coins, price will be 1 sat or less
and as bonus: now there is lot of big miners who mining bbp as bonus beside other coins like byteball or grc. if there will not be podc, then they switch back to their primary coin and dump bbp on exchanges (10+ milions)
December 02, 2018, 03:45:27 PM
BBP Pool:
https://www.bbppool.com/
I believe this is our method for brand new users who have no UTXO stake.
https://www.bbppool.com/
I believe this is our method for brand new users who have no UTXO stake.
i told this few days ago that this is way for new users, but registration is closed now
we need this kind of pool owned by us
hi,
I am the owner of grcpool.com and bbppool.com. Just to clear things up about registration being closed... I am not entirely sure I will open registrations back up on the pool at this point. Originally, I closed it because I wanted to keep an eye on some of the mandatory updates that were happening. Also, I was having some problems getting regular podc payments from the network (which seemed to have been fixed) and didn't want to be expanding if that didn't clear up. In addition, frankly, there were a number of things that distasted me about the project in general. Also, with the prices being so low, buying in shouldn't be very scary, of course I know that means you have to have the knowledge/ability to exchange.
Honestly, GRC is still my preference by a long way, and with grcpool being able get BBP now (along with other coins/tokens), I see less reason for bbppool to exist from my personal perspective. I think bbppool might as well join team gridcoin to get the rewards for all available tokens, which would put it as running the same as grcpool. I would rather have my personal funded staking funds running on grcpool to support the large community there. I expect to start processing the BBP earning this week as I am taking a pool vote on how to handle the BBP.
As it was mentioned, grcpool.com has a couple of versions that are online open source. bbppool is forked from them (the php pool on Gridcoin community github). I would be willing to put the current version of bbppool on my github also. They aren't the most open source friendly as its not like a one click setup kind of thing, but they can help by seeing how some of the critical features operate.
If you would like further discussion, please feel free to contact me on the discord channel @bgb.
thanks, now as you added bbp to grc pool, running bbppool is not reasonable. i understand you
December 02, 2018, 03:41:18 PM
Voting with masternodes is of course technologically much better than voting on the forum, but if the poll mainly concerns miners who probably don't have masternodes, then it's not very adequate.
In another coin I follow, they have true governance without masternodes! And it's actually very simple: 1 coin = 1 vote. So literally everyone who holds the coins can vote, and their weight is precisely equal to their "skin in the game". Can't have it more fair than that. And the voting process itself is also very simple, you just sign a message from your wallet which contains "YES", "NO" or "ABSTAIN". In that particular coin, you have to copy that signed message to a website to actually vote, but if we can go a step further than that, everything could be done in the wallet with just a few clicks. Rob, what do you think?
In another coin I follow, they have true governance without masternodes! And it's actually very simple: 1 coin = 1 vote. So literally everyone who holds the coins can vote, and their weight is precisely equal to their "skin in the game". Can't have it more fair than that. And the voting process itself is also very simple, you just sign a message from your wallet which contains "YES", "NO" or "ABSTAIN". In that particular coin, you have to copy that signed message to a website to actually vote, but if we can go a step further than that, everything could be done in the wallet with just a few clicks. Rob, what do you think?
+1; if I have X million bbp in stake I can not vote?
December 02, 2018, 03:02:22 PM
Voting with masternodes is of course technologically much better than voting on the forum, but if the poll mainly concerns miners who probably don't have masternodes, then it's not very adequate.
In another coin I follow, they have true governance without masternodes! And it's actually very simple: 1 coin = 1 vote. So literally everyone who holds the coins can vote, and their weight is precisely equal to their "skin in the game". Can't have it more fair than that. And the voting process itself is also very simple, you just sign a message from your wallet which contains "YES", "NO" or "ABSTAIN". In that particular coin, you have to copy that signed message to a website to actually vote, but if we can go a step further than that, everything could be done in the wallet with just a few clicks. Rob, what do you think?
In another coin I follow, they have true governance without masternodes! And it's actually very simple: 1 coin = 1 vote. So literally everyone who holds the coins can vote, and their weight is precisely equal to their "skin in the game". Can't have it more fair than that. And the voting process itself is also very simple, you just sign a message from your wallet which contains "YES", "NO" or "ABSTAIN". In that particular coin, you have to copy that signed message to a website to actually vote, but if we can go a step further than that, everything could be done in the wallet with just a few clicks. Rob, what do you think?
December 02, 2018, 02:12:34 PM
Let's give a big thanks to QIEX for donating all of 2018's trading profits to our orphan foundation!
QIEX has donated: 106,490 BBP! Thanks QIEX!
QIEX interview with BBP founder:
http://pool.biblepay.org/docs/QIEX%20BBP%20ACCESS.pdf
** NOTE **
Ricky (CEO) and Linda (Bus Development) from QIEX pledge to notify the Chinese Crypto-Whales of BiblePay over the next quarter. They will be introducing the whales to their exchange and promoting biblepay. We will keep everyone updated on this and how we are received.
QIEX has donated: 106,490 BBP! Thanks QIEX!
QIEX interview with BBP founder:
http://pool.biblepay.org/docs/QIEX%20BBP%20ACCESS.pdf
** NOTE **
Ricky (CEO) and Linda (Bus Development) from QIEX pledge to notify the Chinese Crypto-Whales of BiblePay over the next quarter. They will be introducing the whales to their exchange and promoting biblepay. We will keep everyone updated on this and how we are received.
Rob, 106,409 is it a lot?
When we sent more, you never wrote thank you. what is going on?
December 02, 2018, 11:34:03 AM
And the rich get richer...
yes, like in real world, it will NEVER be other way December 02, 2018, 11:25:06 AM
Let's give a big thanks to QIEX for donating all of 2018's trading profits to our orphan foundation!
QIEX has donated: 106,490 BBP! Thanks QIEX!
QIEX interview with BBP founder:
http://pool.biblepay.org/docs/QIEX%20BBP%20ACCESS.pdf
** NOTE **
Ricky (CEO) and Linda (Bus Development) from QIEX pledge to notify the Chinese Crypto-Whales of BiblePay over the next quarter. They will be introducing the whales to their exchange and promoting biblepay. We will keep everyone updated on this and how we are received.
QIEX has donated: 106,490 BBP! Thanks QIEX!
QIEX interview with BBP founder:
http://pool.biblepay.org/docs/QIEX%20BBP%20ACCESS.pdf
** NOTE **
Ricky (CEO) and Linda (Bus Development) from QIEX pledge to notify the Chinese Crypto-Whales of BiblePay over the next quarter. They will be introducing the whales to their exchange and promoting biblepay. We will keep everyone updated on this and how we are received.
December 02, 2018, 10:48:05 AM
I added a sanctuary vote for exploring POG2 as a potential replacement for PODC.
Please vote Sancs over the next 14 days~.
EDIT: I'm not against phasing POG2 in if it wins (as a temporary replacement for POBH). The issue is I'm not sure if we will go through the entire design/testnet/change/release process if the algorithm isn't supported as a replacement to PODC to begin with (as that is technically what the idea was created to address).
I'm all for safety - testnet - phasing in as POBH enhancement - and then replacing PODC if POG2 works as expected.
Please vote Sancs over the next 14 days~.
EDIT: I'm not against phasing POG2 in if it wins (as a temporary replacement for POBH). The issue is I'm not sure if we will go through the entire design/testnet/change/release process if the algorithm isn't supported as a replacement to PODC to begin with (as that is technically what the idea was created to address).
I'm all for safety - testnet - phasing in as POBH enhancement - and then replacing PODC if POG2 works as expected.
December 02, 2018, 10:47:13 AM
Frankly, I am not even sure why these polls exist. Are we going to have a new poll as long as the result is not what is expected?
Rob was concerned PoG v1 had some holes specifically with the ability to game the donation scheme so you can get the biggest percent of payments by running hundreds of BiblePay QT wallets. PoG v2 has some of those issues addressed by utilizing concepts from an altcoin called Lynx (getlynx.io) via their HPoW (Hybrid Proof of Work) which uses some clever tricks to equitably distribute mining rewards using code and data from the blockchain.
I'm in support of PoG v2 with the caveat that it replace Proof of Work (BiblePay calls it Proof of Bible Hash PoBH) as a test. I think PoG v2 can be viable, but just need to test the waters slowly. It can also replace PoDC, but needs more support before we think about removing PoDC.
Correct, except the POG v2 addl features didn't come from Lynx. The single coin spend (minimum age, minimum amount, and max_tithe_amount) came from the idea of adding a POG_Difficulty_algorithm, which is an original idea. Really the credit can be given to classic POS. I was trying to avoid POS schemes in POG v1, until we realized that we needed a tithe_cap and a tithe_exploit protection mechanism then it was clear we had to have at least a UTXO spec in the proposal.
I read something about coin-age so I thought you took some concepts from Lynx's Hybrid Proof of Work (HPoW). So, PoG (Proof of Giving) is tied to classic PoS with some tweaks for donations? Hope you consider replacing PoBH with PoG v2. I will support that approach.
No, PoG is an original idea (not born from POS) with an internal pool (I believe that is a first) and share weight/rewards based on tithe levels to the foundation (which is also original). It would use coin_age which is an *element* of POS to limit giving - but it is not based on proof-of-stake. Lynx didn't influence it as we already have proof-of-stake in BiblePay (for our proof of concept for POL). I mentioned my thoughts on Lynx right after you posted it (and I thought you read it and replied). (On a side note I mentioned in the wiki that POG2 differs from POS in the sense that it seeks a single coin so that the smallest wallets can mine, in contrast to POS where the richest are rewarded commensurately - as I feel its important in this easy adoption scenario to attempt to spread the rewards out to every newbie by tithe amount in the pool).
Just to be clear, I don't intend to create a proposal for POG to replace POBH as POG2 was born out of simplifying our infrastructure for easy adoption.
So please if anyone is pushing for POG to replace POBH only, vote against it.
December 02, 2018, 09:24:43 AM
BiblePay mentioned in Cryptominertips:
https://cryptominertips.com/can-i-mine-bitcoin-with-my-laptop/
https://cryptominertips.com/can-i-mine-bitcoin-with-my-laptop/
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