Many lives depend on Bitcoin mining, and asking for 30% is like stabbing them to death, miners always decide to keep mining even when Bitcoin is not profitable, they believe in its future value so they have no choice but to hold, now with this tax thing I doubt they will have an easy way out.
Biden is just a Bitcoin hater, nothing more or less, I hope someone better switches his place shortly and that the new president will have mercy on Bitcoin miners, the united states always has a bigger role in Bitcoin and its adoption, they are the number one followed by China, it is so unfair to charge them for tax this high, so inhuman.
If they are worried about the bad Bitcoin miners who use illegal ways to mine Bitcoin they can get them arrested just like what China did, as far as Bitcoin miners are paying for electricity it should all be fine, this is why I believe that it is more than just the electricity, they want miners to quit.
I thank God that I am not in the United States, I have always wished to visit or live there but as a Bitcoin miner myself I can't do it, the hate is way too much.
Topic: Biden is asking Congress to kill the American Bitcoin mining industry (Read 574 times)
May 02, 2024, 02:37:34 AM
The DAME tax has been proposed by the Biden administration, to quote, "make miners pay their fair share of the costs imposed on local communities and the environment.”
Given this statement, at the surface level it seems the tax is driven by the energy consumption of proof-of-work mining, primarily Bitcoin. From the US governments perspective, they may be concerned about the power consumption on their energy grid being used for activities that see as non-productive, i.e. mining cryptocurrency.
However, if they only concerned with energy consumption, they could have defined new policy and restrictions on how much energy consumption can be used for mining. Instead they propose a tax, which will definitely make mining less profitable, and dampen the progression of the industry. I also wonder, if the Bitcoin mining industry was decimated in the US, how would that impact fees for Bitcoin transactions?
The reality is, the U.S. Government like many government agencies worldwide see cryptocurrency, particular Bitcoin, as a threat to their economic system. They won't outright ban Bitcoin, as they still see it as an effective way to raise revenue (e.g. asset seizures and sale of Bitcoin by CIA, FBI, etc).
Given this statement, at the surface level it seems the tax is driven by the energy consumption of proof-of-work mining, primarily Bitcoin. From the US governments perspective, they may be concerned about the power consumption on their energy grid being used for activities that see as non-productive, i.e. mining cryptocurrency.
However, if they only concerned with energy consumption, they could have defined new policy and restrictions on how much energy consumption can be used for mining. Instead they propose a tax, which will definitely make mining less profitable, and dampen the progression of the industry. I also wonder, if the Bitcoin mining industry was decimated in the US, how would that impact fees for Bitcoin transactions?
The reality is, the U.S. Government like many government agencies worldwide see cryptocurrency, particular Bitcoin, as a threat to their economic system. They won't outright ban Bitcoin, as they still see it as an effective way to raise revenue (e.g. asset seizures and sale of Bitcoin by CIA, FBI, etc).
If they were actually concerned about taxes and energy consumption, they would've made Big Oil pay up a fairer percentage in taxes a long time ago. But they are not actually interested in doing either of those. Read between the lines - these people want to completely centralize Bitcoin mining so that one day some of these pools can be bought up or acquired by energy companies and become conglomerates.
Meanwhile they have useful idiots like Greenpeace to repeat their nonsense like this: https://twitter.com/greenpeaceusa/status/1784976054677090450
May 02, 2024, 01:53:55 AM
He is not looking to kill it, he is trying to impose the DAME tax, DAME means Digital Asset Mining Energy, and the idea is to start with this tax from 10%, then 20% in the next year and 30% on the 3rd year.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
Don't you think people who are mining bitcoin don't mind relocate to the country that is more favorable because I believe this isn't the sole purpose because for him to keep increase tax every single year shows that it's indirect killing therefore when it's much on people those who don't find it favorable don't quitting, and if he sees that people still instigating then he would have to turn the other way round just to make sure he entirely eliminate it. So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
What they do is somehow power tripping since they really want to eliminate some industry that they maybe don't understand or hard to control that's why this people throw up something bad implementation and leave those people doing good business no choice but to swallow what they want even if this is against on their will.
I am not going to claim to be any kind of a hard politics expert, but sometimes the legislation and/or policy proposals can be considered as a kind of negotiations position, and yeah, many of us know that the US Govt has tendencies to act like bullies, and that posturing has probably gotten worse and worse and worse over the years, including that it is a kind of way to project power, but at the same time some of the power projection attempts are not able to be successful in terms of either being put into an actual policy or even having abilities to enforce - while we also know that divide and conquer kinds of enforcement is not an uncommon practice.
Yeah hard to say some word about them since maybe we will get in trouble for expressing ourselves towards them but obviously we can really see how they take action on some industry they want to control and they usually make those people think that they don't have the choice to follow their orders since they are more powerful than those normal businessman who operates in their country. That's why sometimes it always came up on my mind that its better for those businesses which have been put on heavy pressure by US government to leave that country since there are lots of countries can accommodate them and they are free to run their business without worrying that they might get hit again by bully government officials. People are just afraid but they need to step up on this since they will not get good justice if this people will be silent on what their government act towards those industries that they want to manipulate. But I know this is hard since they are so powerful and they can easily eliminated if government will drop unfavorable judgement or decisions towards them.
May 01, 2024, 06:59:08 PM
I am not going to claim to be any kind of a hard politics expert, but sometimes the legislation and/or policy proposals can be considered as a kind of negotiations position, and yeah, many of us know that the US Govt has tendencies to act like bullies, and that posturing has probably gotten worse and worse and worse over the years,
Actually the China government had done in a past and stop their mining company in their country.The reason behind the China’s move was to reduce their population to get away from the crypto involvement in the form of cryptocurrency trading ban and the mining of bitcoin was banned.The current price was bear due to this news,I am confused now.If the bear market because of this news,we can’t expect the huge price drop from the 60k mark to 50k mark in the shortest period of time.The United States had influencing the bitcoin price market most of the time.
including that it is a kind of way to project power, but at the same time some of the power projection attempts are not able to be successful in terms of either being put into an actual policy or even having abilities to enforce - while we also know that divide and conquer kinds of enforcement is not an uncommon practice.
The power consumption for the mining will be huge,but the fact is not because of power consumption the government of United States.The government uses the holding power minimum for the transactions.Because the economy of the government was mostly dependent on the bitcoin for now in many countries indirectly.The US government want to capitalise their people money from bitcoin mining to the other sources was the reason for this move by the US government.
May 01, 2024, 03:10:35 PM
He is not looking to kill it, he is trying to impose the DAME tax, DAME means Digital Asset Mining Energy, and the idea is to start with this tax from 10%, then 20% in the next year and 30% on the 3rd year.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
Don't you think people who are mining bitcoin don't mind relocate to the country that is more favorable because I believe this isn't the sole purpose because for him to keep increase tax every single year shows that it's indirect killing therefore when it's much on people those who don't find it favorable don't quitting, and if he sees that people still instigating then he would have to turn the other way round just to make sure he entirely eliminate it. So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
What they do is somehow power tripping since they really want to eliminate some industry that they maybe don't understand or hard to control that's why this people throw up something bad implementation and leave those people doing good business no choice but to swallow what they want even if this is against on their will.
I am not going to claim to be any kind of a hard politics expert, but sometimes the legislation and/or policy proposals can be considered as a kind of negotiations position, and yeah, many of us know that the US Govt has tendencies to act like bullies, and that posturing has probably gotten worse and worse and worse over the years, including that it is a kind of way to project power, but at the same time some of the power projection attempts are not able to be successful in terms of either being put into an actual policy or even having abilities to enforce - while we also know that divide and conquer kinds of enforcement is not an uncommon practice.
May 01, 2024, 04:56:22 AM
He is not looking to kill it, he is trying to impose the DAME tax, DAME means Digital Asset Mining Energy, and the idea is to start with this tax from 10%, then 20% in the next year and 30% on the 3rd year.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
Don't you think people who are mining bitcoin don't mind relocate to the country that is more favorable because I believe this isn't the sole purpose because for him to keep increase tax every single year shows that it's indirect killing therefore when it's much on people those who don't find it favorable don't quitting, and if he sees that people still instigating then he would have to turn the other way round just to make sure he entirely eliminate it. So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
Its like he say take it or leave it since you don't have a choice since I am the one who have authority to implement something that I like to happen. That's why I think maybe its good for miners to leave on a country that doesn't give any favorable chance to do a legal business. There should be a country that best accept this operation and for sure for migrating they can escape those heavy regulations made by those abusive government.
What they do is somehow power tripping since they really want to eliminate some industry that they maybe don't understand or hard to control that's why this people throw up something bad implementation and leave those people doing good business no choice but to swallow what they want even if this is against on their will.
April 29, 2024, 05:42:48 PM
The DAME tax has been proposed by the Biden administration, to quote, "make miners pay their fair share of the costs imposed on local communities and the environment.”
Given this statement, at the surface level it seems the tax is driven by the energy consumption of proof-of-work mining, primarily Bitcoin. From the US governments perspective, they may be concerned about the power consumption on their energy grid being used for activities that see as non-productive, i.e. mining cryptocurrency.
However, if they only concerned with energy consumption, they could have defined new policy and restrictions on how much energy consumption can be used for mining. Instead they propose a tax, which will definitely make mining less profitable, and dampen the progression of the industry. I also wonder, if the Bitcoin mining industry was decimated in the US, how would that impact fees for Bitcoin transactions?
The reality is, the U.S. Government like many government agencies worldwide see cryptocurrency, particular Bitcoin, as a threat to their economic system. They won't outright ban Bitcoin, as they still see it as an effective way to raise revenue (e.g. asset seizures and sale of Bitcoin by CIA, FBI, etc).
To answer your question though, how will this effect the upcoming election? Very little.
Whilst the US accounts for 37.8% of Bitcoin mining, the overall number of Bitcoin miners in terms of vote count against the entire US population is almost nil. One thing to note is that the DAME tax is still only in a proposal state, if it was proven to pass than I believe more investors and traders of Bitcoin would be concerned as the shrinkage of the Bitcoin mining industry in the US would definitely have an impact on price, demand, and adoption.
Given this statement, at the surface level it seems the tax is driven by the energy consumption of proof-of-work mining, primarily Bitcoin. From the US governments perspective, they may be concerned about the power consumption on their energy grid being used for activities that see as non-productive, i.e. mining cryptocurrency.
However, if they only concerned with energy consumption, they could have defined new policy and restrictions on how much energy consumption can be used for mining. Instead they propose a tax, which will definitely make mining less profitable, and dampen the progression of the industry. I also wonder, if the Bitcoin mining industry was decimated in the US, how would that impact fees for Bitcoin transactions?
The reality is, the U.S. Government like many government agencies worldwide see cryptocurrency, particular Bitcoin, as a threat to their economic system. They won't outright ban Bitcoin, as they still see it as an effective way to raise revenue (e.g. asset seizures and sale of Bitcoin by CIA, FBI, etc).
To answer your question though, how will this effect the upcoming election? Very little.
Whilst the US accounts for 37.8% of Bitcoin mining, the overall number of Bitcoin miners in terms of vote count against the entire US population is almost nil. One thing to note is that the DAME tax is still only in a proposal state, if it was proven to pass than I believe more investors and traders of Bitcoin would be concerned as the shrinkage of the Bitcoin mining industry in the US would definitely have an impact on price, demand, and adoption.
April 29, 2024, 05:35:35 PM
He is not looking to kill it, he is trying to impose the DAME tax, DAME means Digital Asset Mining Energy, and the idea is to start with this tax from 10%, then 20% in the next year and 30% on the 3rd year.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
Don't you think people who are mining bitcoin don't mind relocate to the country that is more favorable because I believe this isn't the sole purpose because for him to keep increase tax every single year shows that it's indirect killing therefore when it's much on people those who don't find it favorable don't quitting, and if he sees that people still instigating then he would have to turn the other way round just to make sure he entirely eliminate it. So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
April 29, 2024, 04:53:50 PM
Why single out BTC / crypto with it's electric consumption ?
Because crypto competes with other investments and the USD that the government and the banking system they're in bed with don't control, and right now the US government seems to be very anti-crypto under the guise of combating money laundering and all that stuff.
April 27, 2024, 12:00:42 AM
As for Trump vs Biden - They are not really who I want in power from either side for many reasons, but here we are, that's all we got .... right ?
It is Adolf Hitler vs Darth Vader for president.... again!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFA-rOls8YA
April 26, 2024, 02:32:41 PM
Now, before I get into deep water with any moderators here, this topic is not here to start a fight, so please keep it on topic.
Looking for everyone's thoughts on this, please keep the political content to a minimum.
This story got posted today....
https://cointelegraph.com/news/biden-is-asking-congress-to-kill-the-american-bitcoin-mining-industry
So, lets hear your thoughts on this and if your in the USA, which way will you vote in November ?
I think many people in USA will have an alternative in the person of Trump, because he has made promises concerning cryptocurrencies and although it is a political plot, he mentioned his support for the crypto community. Looking for everyone's thoughts on this, please keep the political content to a minimum.
This story got posted today....
https://cointelegraph.com/news/biden-is-asking-congress-to-kill-the-american-bitcoin-mining-industry
So, lets hear your thoughts on this and if your in the USA, which way will you vote in November ?
Also, there was a time I read about some mining companies in the U.S moving their old mining machines to Colorado springs for refurbishment, and possible resale to investors and miners willing to own these machines and operate them in more economic friendly regions with cheaper electricity tarrifs and data consumption cost. Infact the goal was just to move to areas where it would be cheaper to manage a mining farm.
Whatever Biden is doing is only a bump in the road because the American community already regulates Crypto currency and if they decide to tax it at 30%, then there might be an issue of massive relocation from the country and a drop in the macro economy, since many companies accept it already and would find it hard to stop using it because of taxes.
April 26, 2024, 01:33:23 PM
This old fella has already screwed up everything and as per my understanding he is trying to kill the mining industry without actually killing it that's my implementing high taxes for mining to an extend that mining wouldn't be profitable after the taxes which will push users to stop mining. We cannot expect any positive news from them but atleast they should be neutral rather than targeting the mining and crypto ecosystem.
April 26, 2024, 11:39:29 AM
He is not looking to kill it, he is trying to impose the DAME tax, DAME means Digital Asset Mining Energy, and the idea is to start with this tax from 10%, then 20% in the next year and 30% on the 3rd year.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
So, the plan isn't to ban the mining, but with those huge taxes, no one will want to mine there. Is not a good business. But i don't think congress will let that tax come to live, and if it does, they will stop it before the 3rd year, because other way people will start creating illegal farms.
Yep, the "asset industry" is not at all the mining industry. It is being, as usual, made into a partisan thing and all that crap. My guess is that the news might lower the price of electricity by less than 1% if any??
I think it is contrary to a good practice to selectively tax a certain use of energy - like for example taxing selectively the land for cattle (cows) because these are harmful for the environment (should I say to a greater extent than bitcoin?) or you could tax the energy used in producing diesel or gasoline cars for the same reason...but my favourite would be to tax the energy consumption of VISA and Mastercard, including the one used to take the employees to the office, etc...
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61364#:~:text=The%20CBECI%20estimates%20that%20global,to%20have%20been%2027%2C400%20TWh.
Quote
The CBECI estimates that global electricity usage associated with Bitcoin mining ranged from 67 TWh to 240 TWh in 2023, with a point estimate of 120 TWh. The International Energy Agency estimated global consumption of electricity during 2023 to have been 27,400 TWh.10 So, the CBECI estimates put electricity supporting Bitcoin mining in 2023 at about 0.2% to 0.9% of global demand for electricity
0.2% is quite a bit of energy to be honest.
April 26, 2024, 09:55:16 AM
Thank you to all that have posted a reply here, glad to see some of you have "criticized" me on my first post of this thread, you did what I wanted, you voiced your opinion without causing a fight here, I congratulate you all in that respect.
It's been an interesting read with all that's been said and posted here, insightful to say the least !
As for Trump vs Biden - They are not really who I want in power from either side for many reasons, but here we are, that's all we got .... right ?
Once again, thanks !
It's been an interesting read with all that's been said and posted here, insightful to say the least !
As for Trump vs Biden - They are not really who I want in power from either side for many reasons, but here we are, that's all we got .... right ?
Once again, thanks !
April 26, 2024, 08:28:16 AM
Oh god, this again!
It's not tax on mining, it's a tax on electricity used, it's 10% on what you pay for electricity!
Riot is paying between 2.5 cents and 4 cents per kwh depending on their location, this tax will be added next year to rise the price to 2.75 cents per kwh to 4.4 cents/kwh.
The halving has split the revenue in half, even a 100% tax on electricity wouldn't be as bad as the current drop in revenue!
How about all of you get honest and when you look at your electricity bill with 13cents/kwh or 40 cents per kWh, do you keep saying that miners should only pay 3 cents per kwh?
I had to quit mining because of high traffic and if it weren't for bulk electricity plan I wouldn't be able to mine profitably even with the near last generation, but some of you think that an increase of a quarter of a cent per kWh would bankrupt an industry!
It's not tax on mining, it's a tax on electricity used, it's 10% on what you pay for electricity!
Riot is paying between 2.5 cents and 4 cents per kwh depending on their location, this tax will be added next year to rise the price to 2.75 cents per kwh to 4.4 cents/kwh.
The halving has split the revenue in half, even a 100% tax on electricity wouldn't be as bad as the current drop in revenue!
How about all of you get honest and when you look at your electricity bill with 13cents/kwh or 40 cents per kWh, do you keep saying that miners should only pay 3 cents per kwh?
I had to quit mining because of high traffic and if it weren't for bulk electricity plan I wouldn't be able to mine profitably even with the near last generation, but some of you think that an increase of a quarter of a cent per kWh would bankrupt an industry!
April 25, 2024, 10:00:55 PM
Why single out BTC / crypto with it's electric consumption ?
Because crypto competes with other investments and the USD that the government and the banking system they're in bed with don't control, and right now the US government seems to be very anti-crypto under the guise of combating money laundering and all that stuff.
Vote republican, that's all I have to say. Biden will be lucky if he doesn't die in office this term because of his age; imagine if he ran for re-election? He's just a puppet, and there are some seriously nasty people who've got their hands up his ass as far as crypto is concerned. Either way, republicans are generally for less government and are pro-business so that's the way I've always voted. Except for Trump that is, and his presidency didn't turn out to be the nuclear war armageddon that I thought would be the case.
Bitcoin went up 500% under Biden. Vote Democrat.
April 25, 2024, 09:34:16 PM
Why single out BTC / crypto with it's electric consumption ?
Because crypto competes with other investments and the USD that the government and the banking system they're in bed with don't control, and right now the US government seems to be very anti-crypto under the guise of combating money laundering and all that stuff.
Vote republican, that's all I have to say. Biden will be lucky if he doesn't die in office this term because of his age; imagine if he ran for re-election? He's just a puppet, and there are some seriously nasty people who've got their hands up his ass as far as crypto is concerned. Either way, republicans are generally for less government and are pro-business so that's the way I've always voted. Except for Trump that is, and his presidency didn't turn out to be the nuclear war armageddon that I thought would be the case.
April 25, 2024, 09:09:50 PM
What if they rig the election again and gets in again. They couldn’t completely ban it
April 25, 2024, 07:16:32 AM
These anti-crypto takes by Biden are stupid. He should know that crypto is a very much booming industry and that it's going to benefit other countries massively if America kicks them all out.
This is the reason why Biden wanted to implement taxes to the industry, for the US government to gain huge income from the industry. Whether it is bullshit or not is subjective. For the eyes of the non-crypto people, it should be but for the miners, it is somehow suppressive.
Most large american miners are running as corporations now, so this is essentially a double tax. Capital gains + the usual business income tax.
And I don't know how the feds think they are going to extract a lot of money from the smaller hobbyist miners and the small farms, especially after the halving made them way less profitable. It's probably no bigger than $10-$100 million/year in the US that these small miners are making in total.
April 25, 2024, 06:51:00 AM
Such tax rate will effectively destroy the entire US crypto mining industry.
Only well managed Bitcoin mining firms will survive this tax increase. It is just a conscious attempt to choke the American mining industry and also a means to exploit them. Biden shouldn't use China as an example because the US is more democratic. American legislators are not rubber stamp like their Chinese counterparts. As we have seen senators like Senator Cynthia Lummis, and Robert F. Kennedy Jr have already began to oppose the proposal.
So, lets hear your thoughts on this and if your in the USA, which way will you vote in November ?
Do you think Donald Trump will be more friendly to Bitcoin miners? He has never been a fan of Bitcoin and might also consider the same policy if elected. Choosing between Biden and Trump is like the devil and the Deep Blue Sea. However Trump is an unapologetic racist and I don't like home for that, hence Biden will have my vote.
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