Big companies finally had enough of the excessive tax - page 4.

mv1986

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Quote from: Silberman on July 04, 2021, 04:19:59 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on July 02, 2021, 10:40:13 PM

Quote from: Silberman on July 01, 2021, 05:23:58 PM

This is why Biden is asking for countries to somehow try to make their tax codes to become more similar in order to try to close the loopholes that we have in the system, but this is going to be impossible especially when it comes to tax havens, those countries get a great deal of their income due to charging low or no taxes to all to those that decide to have their money there, if they were to do something like this then the country will go bankrupt, as we can see this means that we are always going to have countries willing to provide loopholes on purpose to the rich.

Biden is planning to impose a minimum corporate tax rate of 15%. I don't know how practical is this idea. It may still be possible to apply these laws on ecommerce and other businesses that operate physically. But online gambling doesn't exist in the physical form, and it will be very difficult for various governments to get information on their citizens who use these online sites to gamble. The government can come up with more and more innovative measures, but none of them is going to be 100% effective in preventing tax evasion.

In a way I am surprised this is the path that Biden took, the democrats have being stating that they will make use of modern monetary theory which basically states that they can print as much money as they want with no repercussions, after all we know that inflation is in fact a tax and the higher the inflation the higher the tax people need to pay, it seems he took a more orthodox path but even then it is going to be difficult to force businesses to pay those taxes as they have the best experts around the world to help them to avoid doing it.

No measure has ever the ultimate effect to a cause it is meant to address. Sure, you could say 0% corporate tax, but what's the point of doing that...

You can put the death penalty on stealing anything worth more than $2, and yet you will see people stealing something for $5. The problem is that not all scams are ill-intentioned. Imagine you are the boss of three thousand people, you know many of their faces and know that many of them have families. Your business is not going well this year and you really believe it will go well in two years again. If you file a correct tax report, you are insolvent. So there are also these cases where people emotionally justify their illegal actions.

As for Biden, that's true and he seems to have a plan on his own obviously. But isn't Delaware anyway the hotspot for so many companies? As far as I know they are already offering tax rates way below 15% anyway.

Silberman

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Quote from: Sithara007 on July 02, 2021, 10:40:13 PM

Quote from: Silberman on July 01, 2021, 05:23:58 PM

This is why Biden is asking for countries to somehow try to make their tax codes to become more similar in order to try to close the loopholes that we have in the system, but this is going to be impossible especially when it comes to tax havens, those countries get a great deal of their income due to charging low or no taxes to all to those that decide to have their money there, if they were to do something like this then the country will go bankrupt, as we can see this means that we are always going to have countries willing to provide loopholes on purpose to the rich.

Biden is planning to impose a minimum corporate tax rate of 15%. I don't know how practical is this idea. It may still be possible to apply these laws on ecommerce and other businesses that operate physically. But online gambling doesn't exist in the physical form, and it will be very difficult for various governments to get information on their citizens who use these online sites to gamble. The government can come up with more and more innovative measures, but none of them is going to be 100% effective in preventing tax evasion.

In a way I am surprised this is the path that Biden took, the democrats have being stating that they will make use of modern monetary theory which basically states that they can print as much money as they want with no repercussions, after all we know that inflation is in fact a tax and the higher the inflation the higher the tax people need to pay, it seems he took a more orthodox path but even then it is going to be difficult to force businesses to pay those taxes as they have the best experts around the world to help them to avoid doing it.

South Park

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Quote from: fiulpro on June 13, 2021, 01:24:37 PM

Now this is not just :
Unsustainable and unreasonable but according to them "ill timed", their whole sponsorships will be effected. This high taxation will also cause gamblers sore.

During pandemic the gambling is a huge income source for them and the government alike. Therefore I do believe that either they should have done it slowly or done it after the pandemic.

They are now asking the government to reconsider it.
{This is exactly the kind of news we need because this shows how the democratic countries can move forth and oppose such things, not always the tax is legit if served by the government during such times}

What do you think ?

https://www.gamblinginsider.com/news/12178/kenyas-biggest-football-clubs-join-forces-to-oppose-new-tax-rules

Governments all over the world are raising taxes in order to recover some of the money they lost during the pandemic and they could not have chosen a worst time in order to do it, the economy is weak, in fact they should be doing the opposite and trying to do their best to get smaller but that is never an option so they are going to raise the taxation on every single industry that they can and I will not be surprised if they kill a few industries due to this increase in the taxes corporations need to pay.

Desmong

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Quote from: mv1986 on July 03, 2021, 12:08:45 PM

Quote from: Kyraishi on July 01, 2021, 04:13:00 AM

They might as well just tell all of the gambling operators to exit the scene altogether.

Quote

In a bid to raise cash for the financial year

If Kenya were really serious about raising revenue then they could be doing this way smarter. Heck, just position yourself as a haven for these gambling institutions by providing a reasonable corporate tax rate and you should be raking in millions if not billions in revenue straight away.

I don't get these governments sometimes. Revenue raising is so easy if you just play your cards right - have a robust regulatory framework, be open-minded, and don't be greedy.

What you describe as easy is either something governments in poorer countries don't even want or they just can't come with a robust regulatory framework. And we probably don't have to discuss the "greedy" term. That might even be the biggest problem for most of the people, any nationality included.

Also, competing with places like the Cayman Islands or so is almost impossible, isn't it? Or some other set ups in Panama. There is literally no tax. How low should Kenya now go to really attract large corporations?

Maybe we don't need to really blame Kenya at this juncture, like we have seen most African countries running out of fund, looking for where else to get loan to run their economy. Convid-19 really hit them hard not in the aspect of death casualties but area of funding the economy not to become sluggish.
Kenya thinks the only to get revenue is to task more of the gambling companies maybe seeing them as inferior part of the business sector, but they're more active than some area that need to be tasked more. Can we call this an act to reduce the rate of gambling in Kenya? Gambling companies would surely look for a way out to maximize their profits.

mv1986

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Quote from: Kyraishi on July 01, 2021, 04:13:00 AM

They might as well just tell all of the gambling operators to exit the scene altogether.

Quote

In a bid to raise cash for the financial year

If Kenya were really serious about raising revenue then they could be doing this way smarter. Heck, just position yourself as a haven for these gambling institutions by providing a reasonable corporate tax rate and you should be raking in millions if not billions in revenue straight away.

I don't get these governments sometimes. Revenue raising is so easy if you just play your cards right - have a robust regulatory framework, be open-minded, and don't be greedy.

What you describe as easy is either something governments in poorer countries don't even want or they just can't come with a robust regulatory framework. And we probably don't have to discuss the "greedy" term. That might even be the biggest problem for most of the people, any nationality included.

Also, competing with places like the Cayman Islands or so is almost impossible, isn't it? Or some other set ups in Panama. There is literally no tax. How low should Kenya now go to really attract large corporations?

Oshosondy

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I think if a country has a large tax fee, then we must be able to think positively who knows the tax they provide is that big to increase economic conditions and infrastructure development in Kenya, so that the country is increasingly known to many people.

Well I will say you are right, but if other tax collected are 10% while that of gambling is 20%, I think it is partiality because other taxes supposed to be increased also by 20%, I was thinking the government are doing it for no two reasons than to discourage people not to gamble. If the citizens know more about crypto and many gambling sites that support crypto with no kyc not to talk of taxes, some may leave the country gambling site for crypto gambling sites, but most people prefer what is near to them though. Maybe 20% gambling tax collection may help their economy, but I have noticed the problem in Africa is beyond tax collection, Africans need to find solution of doing things their own way and not depending on the White and Asians countries.

agustina2

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Quote from: Hypnosis00 on July 03, 2021, 02:45:22 AM

Honestly, 20% is big enough and that is like we are paying more on taxes rather than our winnings, maybe 10% is acceptable and it was fair for all but 20% is excessive.

Casino owners and operators can afford it. But it should be applied slowly like start first from additional 5% then 10% and so on, so that the company can adjust and know what's coming. Casino's revenue is so huge so they can cover that 20% later on since gamblers won't stop gambling because of that.

Even the casinos will pay an additional 20%, it doesn't mean their customers will bear it. There's a certain tier before taxing gambling winnings. If you won like $100, $200, $500, you might get it whole or if there's an associated tax, you won't feel it much.

Oshosondy

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Quote from: DoublerHunter on July 01, 2021, 03:55:31 PM

^ I can not agree more on this, because gamblers should oblique to pay taxes aside from the casino. We should declare tax to the IRS, I don't know what is the process but I think that is the right way especially if you are in a country that very strict on implementing taxes. Because in every winning we had and becomes profited, we should be required to File an Income Tax Return or else, there is a penalty or whatever circumstances waiting ahead. Because id filing tax there are individuals and non-individual process.

Nobody should be disputing paying taxes, also in gambling industries, as the companies are paying taxes also are players paying theirs of any profit made with no losses before, because if there are losses before, it will first be removed from the profit which will not go into the tax that will be paid. But this is not the matter, the matter is that the tax some countries like Kenya are taxing gamblers has gotten higher, this is uncalled for in my opinion, 20% tax rate is too much.

Hypnosis00

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Quote from: DoublerHunter on July 01, 2021, 03:55:31 PM

Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on July 01, 2021, 01:30:43 PM

~snip~
In many of the countries, the gamblers are not taxed. Only the casinos are taxed on their profits.

^ I can not agree more on this, because gamblers should oblique to pay taxes aside from the casino. We should declare tax to the IRS, I don't know what is the process but I think that is the right way especially if you are in a country that very strict on implementing taxes. Because in every winning we had and becomes profited, we should be required to File an Income Tax Return or else, there is a penalty or whatever circumstances waiting ahead. Because id filing tax there are individuals and non-individual process.

It's a good thing that I was not in a place where taxes is not obliged for the gamblers. If ever that be going to happen in our country, maybe it pushes me to stop gambling, and might for the others as well. Honestly, 20% is big enough and that is like we are paying more on taxes rather than our winnings, maybe 10% is acceptable and it was fair for all but 20% is excessive.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on July 02, 2021, 10:40:13 PM

Quote from: Silberman on July 01, 2021, 05:23:58 PM

This is why Biden is asking for countries to somehow try to make their tax codes to become more similar in order to try to close the loopholes that we have in the system, but this is going to be impossible especially when it comes to tax havens, those countries get a great deal of their income due to charging low or no taxes to all to those that decide to have their money there, if they were to do something like this then the country will go bankrupt, as we can see this means that we are always going to have countries willing to provide loopholes on purpose to the rich.

Biden is planning to impose a minimum corporate tax rate of 15%. I don't know how practical is this idea. It may still be possible to apply these laws on ecommerce and other businesses that operate physically. But online gambling doesn't exist in the physical form, and it will be very difficult for various governments to get information on their citizens who use these online sites to gamble. The government can come up with more and more innovative measures, but none of them is going to be 100% effective in preventing tax evasion.

There's always loopholes and there's always people who will find ways to prevent that implemented taxes, you are right with what you are saying even the powerful nations can't restrict those people behind this, as there's always places in the world that will offer good terms for this kind of business, money is more important than any laws that can possibly lessen this kind of special treatments.

They will just easily transfer their permits to continue doing their business and not to suffer from any problem from other country who have implemented any laws for the kind of business.

Fortify

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Quote from: fiulpro on June 13, 2021, 01:24:37 PM

20%? Is this even real ? Most of the companies not related to gambling pay lower than 10% but not the same in Kenya when it comes to the sports gambling. Now the biggest football clubs have joined hands to oppose this rule.

What do you think ?

https://www.gamblinginsider.com/news/12178/kenyas-biggest-football-clubs-join-forces-to-oppose-new-tax-rules

Why does a 20% tax rate surprise you? It has almost become to standard across most of the world. Historically in the last fifty years corporate tax rates have been as high as 50% in the UK and US, even in the last ten years the corporate tax rate in America has been around the 35% mark. The main beneficiaries of lower tax rates are the super rich and it can actually be detrimental to the average person on the street the lower they get. Maybe the tax rate should be constructed around "rent-seeking" and value-producing" classifications instead - certain things like manufacturing products can be very helpful to the GDP of a country but other things like "sin stocks" such as tobacco can be detrimental and it might be better to charge them more. Do not be fooled by the media, owned by the mega rich, who are able to put out stories that a low tax rate is bad - they are the biggest winners and the wider society loses the ability to fund critical services from those taxes.

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Quote from: Lucasgabd on July 01, 2021, 01:12:21 PM

Quote from: semobo on June 30, 2021, 06:01:54 PM

Government set the tax rates and if you are living in a democratic country then you are having the rights to select the person who is going to set all these tax rates then why we are blaming the leaders since we are the one who selected them as to be a one. It may be too much from our side but to a government, there is no ethics, they just need taxes, if they are in need of more money they will increase the tax rates. So if you want everything should be done in a fair way then we need to pick the right one who can understand all these consequences of increasing the taxes.

have you been to Brazil?
this kind of candidate you talk about is quite rare here
most of them will simply defend the public machine and want it to grow, almost like a parasitic relationship.

Because there are Huge funds in Machineries lol Grin

Brazil is really a fan of gambling (though like almost all the country in the world)

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Quote from: Silberman on July 01, 2021, 05:23:58 PM

This is why Biden is asking for countries to somehow try to make their tax codes to become more similar in order to try to close the loopholes that we have in the system, but this is going to be impossible especially when it comes to tax havens, those countries get a great deal of their income due to charging low or no taxes to all to those that decide to have their money there, if they were to do something like this then the country will go bankrupt, as we can see this means that we are always going to have countries willing to provide loopholes on purpose to the rich.

Biden is planning to impose a minimum corporate tax rate of 15%. I don't know how practical is this idea. It may still be possible to apply these laws on ecommerce and other businesses that operate physically. But online gambling doesn't exist in the physical form, and it will be very difficult for various governments to get information on their citizens who use these online sites to gamble. The government can come up with more and more innovative measures, but none of them is going to be 100% effective in preventing tax evasion.

KTChampions

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Quote from: Silberman on July 01, 2021, 05:23:58 PM

This is why Biden is asking for countries to somehow try to make their tax codes to become more similar in order to try to close the loopholes that we have in the system, but this is going to be impossible especially when it comes to tax havens, those countries get a great deal of their income due to charging low or no taxes to all to those that decide to have their money there, if they were to do something like this then the country will go bankrupt, as we can see this means that we are always going to have countries willing to provide loopholes on purpose to the rich.

Sooner or later, these countries that help corporations and just rich people evade taxes will be forced to change their behavior - if they are pressured by organizations such as the WTO and others, then they will have no options how to at least start an adequate dialogue to correct this imbalance.
And by the way, since these loopholes still exist, it only means that they are beneficial to the majority (I mean not the majority of the population, but the majority with resources).

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Quote from: Lucasgabd on June 29, 2021, 03:34:57 PM

there are tons of loopholes and it's quite naive to think governments will be able to close it all.
specially for digital business its somehow not that hard to find ways to pay no taxes, you'll still need money to pay for accounts offshore, and its possible to do it all legally

for physical products its always hard but sometimes feasible

This is why Biden is asking for countries to somehow try to make their tax codes to become more similar in order to try to close the loopholes that we have in the system, but this is going to be impossible especially when it comes to tax havens, those countries get a great deal of their income due to charging low or no taxes to all to those that decide to have their money there, if they were to do something like this then the country will go bankrupt, as we can see this means that we are always going to have countries willing to provide loopholes on purpose to the rich.

DoublerHunter

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Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on July 01, 2021, 01:30:43 PM

~snip~
In many of the countries, the gamblers are not taxed. Only the casinos are taxed on their profits.

^ I can not agree more on this, because gamblers should oblique to pay taxes aside from the casino. We should declare tax to the IRS, I don't know what is the process but I think that is the right way especially if you are in a country that very strict on implementing taxes. Because in every winning we had and becomes profited, we should be required to File an Income Tax Return or else, there is a penalty or whatever circumstances waiting ahead. Because id filing tax there are individuals and non-individual process.

beerlover

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Quote from: fiulpro on June 13, 2021, 01:24:37 PM

Unsustainable and unreasonable but according to them "ill timed", their whole sponsorships will be effected. This high taxation will also cause gamblers sore.

During pandemic the gambling is a huge income source for them and the government alike. Therefore I do believe that either they should have done it slowly or done it after the pandemic.

They are now asking the government to reconsider it.

It is a tale as old as history itself. If you have a nation that is very bad in financial situation then you have to do something as government to make it go better. These taxes are not there to help politicians, it is there to help the people back, if you keep paying taxes but nothing is improving then why are you paying a tax to begin with?

Most nations in the developed worlds gets taxes and makes their corporate buddies richer with it, in others taxes goes to pockets of the politicians, there is rarely ever a good nation where taxes actually work.

I know it is boring to say this but looking at north European nations you see that they are doing good, why? Because, they are inherently better than rest of the world? Of course not, they are boring same old nation equal to everyone else, only reason why they are doing good is high taxes exists but goes back to population and not in the pockets of someone else. Do that and big companies should be paying even MORE taxes, as long as those taxes actually do help people.

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Excessive taxes make some gamblers limit gambling, everyone in this crypto world really avoiding taxes and so as gamblers, the thing with this implementation is that gamblers will find other ways to avoid those taxes, so they might change to another platform that does not requires taxes. The government is always there, they will always try to gain on every business they can have.

In many of the countries, the gamblers are not taxed. Only the casinos are taxed on their profits. In EU and some of the other regions, whatever you win from a casino is 100% tax-free. But in countries such as the US, that is not the case. Whether you manage a few big wins in a casino, or win a lottery jackpot, you need to pay taxes on the winning amount. A lot of people have pointed out that this amounts to double taxation, but the US laws are made like that. Now coming to the gambling companies, the tax rate can be quite steep. Check the table below for details:

Lucasgabd

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Quote from: semobo on June 30, 2021, 06:01:54 PM

Government set the tax rates and if you are living in a democratic country then you are having the rights to select the person who is going to set all these tax rates then why we are blaming the leaders since we are the one who selected them as to be a one. It may be too much from our side but to a government, there is no ethics, they just need taxes, if they are in need of more money they will increase the tax rates. So if you want everything should be done in a fair way then we need to pick the right one who can understand all these consequences of increasing the taxes.

have you been to Brazil?
this kind of candidate you talk about is quite rare here
most of them will simply defend the public machine and want it to grow, almost like a parasitic relationship.

Wexnident

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Quote from: rodskee on July 01, 2021, 04:40:12 AM

Lol enough of companies , because they are not the one who suffers from taxation so they don't have to act as victim here .

True. Companies would simply increase the cost of products and whatnot, while casinos would simply tax users at the end of every game or when they transfer money out of their local site wallets. It's kinda sad, but hey, that's how business works I guess.

Quote from: bhadz on July 01, 2021, 03:10:39 AM

That is how the democracy works and literally 51% wins over 49% if there is only two contenders and 26% itself can declare as a winner if 4 contenders have equal amount of vote banks, that is why these government wants to keep the people separated in the name of colour, religion, etc.

It's not like whoever won equates to whoever we actually wanted man. It's all about equal and fair rights when it comes to voting and winning, hence whoever won does not actually equate to who we wanted. Besides, why are we even blaming the government here, most of them ask for pretty low taxes inc casinos, rather it's the casinos that move that tax to us unreasonably instead so that they could minimize their losses.

Topic: Big companies finally had enough of the excessive tax - page 4. (Read 2411 times)