BIP39 mnemonic phrase. - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: crwth on July 02, 2023, 10:46:36 AM

Isn't it because BIP39 mnemonic phrase is somewhat a friendlier way to remember the private keys or something?

The other advantage is that we can have numerous addresses all generated from a single seed phrase.

Quote from: Cricktor on July 02, 2023, 01:49:20 PM

My educated guess is: this is too much missing out. You don't have the time and energy to search through 99 missing bits.

Right. Read the post made by o_e_l_e_o in another thread before.
If you miss 6 words, it would take around 44 million years to brute-force the seed phrase. Even 4-5 missing words can't be brute-forced, let alone 9 missing words.

Zoomic

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on July 02, 2023, 08:37:58 AM

Almost all non-custodial wallets (with a few exceptions) support BIP39 seed phrase. If you have a BIP39 seed phrase and you know the derivation path, there's nothing to worry about. There are many wallets that can be used for recovering your wallets. (Note that most wallets use standard derivation paths and there is no need to save or write down the derivation path at all)

Worries faded away and the suggestions are sticked to my memory now.

Quote from: crwth on July 02, 2023, 10:46:36 AM

Isn't it because BIP39 mnemonic phrase is somewhat a friendlier way to remember the private keys or something? You cannot determine it just basing on the seed phrase itself I think unless you input it into the wallet software that you have.

The summary of it and the answer to my question is gotten here. Thanks.

Quote from: icynote_original on July 02, 2023, 12:46:59 PM

I have 12 word mnemonic, and I only remember 1, 11 and 12. is there possible for recovery it? please help me.

How did you know the words you remembered are 1, 11 and 12?
Don't you think it is 1, 2 and 3.
When you use the word remembered, it shows that you memorised your seed phrase, which is not a good habit. Even if you could remember all, you will still miss the order of arrangement.

Cricktor

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Quote from: icynote_original on July 02, 2023, 12:46:59 PM

I have 12 word mnemonic, and I only remember 1, 11 and 12. is there possible for recovery it? please help me.

You are missing 9 words, every word encodes 11 bits of entropy, that is equivalent to 99 bits of missing entropy. I've done some recovery stuff with btcrecover but never with that much missing (I wouldn't have started such a quest because it would've been a waste of time and energy).
My educated guess is: this is too much missing out. You don't have the time and energy to search through 99 missing bits.

It's good if you're sure about the last word, because it contains a 4 bit partial hash checksum, but still you need to find more of your words. Correct sequence position is not important, that you can brute force with less work. But having 9 completely missing words is too bad and I'd say not breakable.

Why do you have only such a small fragment? Could there be somewhere another copy?

Open a separate thread for your recovery issue. But if you can't find more words, it's very likely pretty much hopeless.

Why is it hopeless? 2^99 are 633,825,300,114,114,700,748,351,602,688 possible choices. Way too many...

Z-tight

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Quote from: icynote_original on July 02, 2023, 12:46:59 PM

I have 12 word mnemonic, and I only remember 1, 11 and 12. is there possible for recovery it? please help me.

How are you sure that the words your remember out of the 12 is word 1, 11 and 12, did you memorize your seed phrase? If you did, that's terrible and the fastest way to lose your BTC.

I know of https://github.com/3rdIteration/btcrecover
https://github.com/3rdIteration/btcrecover/blob/master/docs/Seedrecover_Quick_Start_Guide.md

I have never used it, but i think it is most helpful and "easier" to use if you have all the mnemonics, but you don't have them in the correct order, in your case which i am surprised, you have only 3 words out of 12, so i don't know if it is possible to recover it.

icynote_original

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Quote from: Cricktor on July 02, 2023, 11:55:06 AM

The BIP39 mnemonic recovery words encode a random number of 128 bits (with 12 words) or 256 bits (with 24 words) in a more human friendly way, to write it down without errors. It's this random number that is the starting point for all the further deterministic derivation to the private keys of your wallet.

You would have a hard time to write 128 or 256 zeroes and ones without error. Likely 32 or 64 hexadecimal digits aren't human friendly to backup, too.

And those mnemonic recovery words even contain a partial hash checksum which very very likely allows detection of an error, be it misplaced, replaced or wrong words. It doesn't give you error correction, only detection.

Quote from: icynote_original on July 02, 2023, 11:50:32 AM

hello, i'm newbie, anybody here know software for find BIP39 mnemonic phrase? because I confused.

Be more specific and try to rephrase your issue. If you screwed up something with your mnemonic recovery words, be careful though not to show the remainder of them here in public.

I have 12 word mnemonic, and I only remember 1, 11 and 12. is there possible for recovery it? please help me.

Cricktor

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The BIP39 mnemonic recovery words encode a random number of 128 bits (with 12 words) or 256 bits (with 24 words) in a more human friendly way, to write it down without errors. It's this random number that is the starting point for all the further deterministic derivation to the private keys of your wallet.

You would have a hard time to write 128 or 256 zeroes and ones without error. Likely 32 or 64 hexadecimal digits aren't human friendly to backup, too.

And those mnemonic recovery words even contain a partial hash checksum which very very likely allows detection of an error, be it misplaced, replaced or wrong words. It doesn't give you error correction, only detection.

Quote from: icynote_original on July 02, 2023, 11:50:32 AM

hello, i'm newbie, anybody here know software for find BIP39 mnemonic phrase? because I confused.

Be more specific and try to rephrase your issue. If you screwed up something with your mnemonic recovery words, be careful though not to show the remainder of them here in public.

icynote_original

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hello, i'm newbie, anybody here know software for find BIP39 mnemonic phrase? because I confused.

crwth

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Isn't it because BIP39 mnemonic phrase is somewhat a friendlier way to remember the private keys or something? You cannot determine it just basing on the seed phrase itself I think unless you input it into the wallet software that you have.

nc50lc

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Quote from: Zoomic on July 02, 2023, 08:16:28 AM

Is it now correct to say that all the wallet sees phases are backward compatible?

No, the correct word would be "the standard" since it's the most implemented mnemonic seed for HD wallets.

"Backward compatible" is: If the new version of a software still supports something from its old version.
For example: Electrum's old seed is different from the new ones but it can still be imported to the latest version.
(take note that none of those seed phrases are BIP39)

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: Zoomic on July 02, 2023, 08:16:28 AM

Is it now correct to say that all the wallet sees phases are backward compatible?

What do you mean by being backward compatible?
Take note that it's not that BIP39 seed phrase is the new version of electrum seed phrase or vice versa. They are completely different types of seed phrases.

Almost all non-custodial wallets (with a few exceptions) support BIP39 seed phrase. If you have a BIP39 seed phrase and you know the derivation path, there's nothing to worry about. There are many wallets that can be used for recovering your wallets. (Note that most wallets use standard derivation paths and there is no need to save or write down the derivation path at all)

If you have an electrum's seed phrase, you can recover your wallet using electrum itself and bluewallet. Again, there's nothing to worry about.

I doubt you have any other type of seed phrase.

Zoomic

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on June 29, 2023, 12:56:00 PM

Quote from: Zoomic on June 29, 2023, 12:50:17 PM

-snip-
Incase we have seed phrases that are not compatible with different wallets, how do I see a complete seed phrase and identity the wallet that generated it?

To add to the above, pretty much all wallets use BIP39 to create wallets, with the exception of Electrum which has its own system[1].

You can still import BIP39 wallets to Electrum though, but an Electrum seed will only work with Bluewallet.

[1] https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/seedphrase.html

Is it now correct to say that all the wallet sees phases are backward compatible?
What you explained is very understandable to me but it seems that the reply of others here in one way countered this. So, I am unable to land at a conclusion to my question.

Pmalek

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on June 29, 2023, 12:56:00 PM

You can still import BIP39 wallets to Electrum though, but an Electrum seed will only work with Bluewallet.

I read a while ago that Sparrow wallet has internal support for Electrum-generated seeds, but they haven't implemented it yet. Maybe it's a topic they will reconsider in the future. Here is what they say about it:

Quote from: dkbit98 on June 30, 2023, 03:43:41 PM

BIP39 was created by Trezor developers and it become a standard for most hardware and software wallets.
Electrum wallet later made some improvements and created their own seed phrase system, but they also support importing BIP39 phrase.

When Electrum came out, there was no BIP39 standard yet, so there was no way of them supporting it in those days, just like pooya87 pointed out.

pooya87

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Quote from: Zoomic on June 29, 2023, 12:50:17 PM

Incase we have seed phrases that are not compatible with different wallets, how do I see a complete seed phrase and identity the wallet that generated it?

You should try to remember what wallet you used to create the said mnemonic and that would help with identifying the type or algorithm used in its generation in addition to things such as derivation paths used when creating the child keys/addresses.
Otherwise if you want to know the type of the seed phrase created by someone else is, it is hard since in some cases one mnemonic can be valid in multiple algorithms (eg. an Electrum seed being a valid BIP39 and vice versa). Not to mention that some wallets use crazy derivation paths that can not be guessed without knowing the wallet first.

Quote from: dkbit98 on June 30, 2023, 03:43:41 PM

BIP39 was created by Trezor developers and it become a standard for most hardware and software wallets.
Electrum wallet later made some improvements and created their own seed phrase system,

Electrum had a seed phrase algorithm from the day it was created which is in 2011, Trezor came about 2 years later in 2013.

dkbit98

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Quote from: Zoomic on June 29, 2023, 12:50:17 PM

My question is BIP39 mnemonic phrase is very popular. Is it a unanimous phrase standard?
Why is it popular?

BIP39 was created by Trezor developers and it become a standard for most hardware and software wallets.
Electrum wallet later made some improvements and created their own seed phrase system, but they also support importing BIP39 phrase.
It became popular because it was the first to do something like this, that makes life and backup much easier.

Quote from: Zoomic on June 29, 2023, 12:50:17 PM

Incase we have seed phrases that are not compatible with different wallets, how do I see a complete seed phrase and identity the wallet that generated it?

I don't know what you mean.
All wallets are compatible with BIP39, only difference can be with derivation paths that can be different with different wallets.

nc50lc

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Quote from: DireWolfM14 on June 29, 2023, 01:51:54 PM

Last I was aware, Armory wallet also generates a seed phrase that's not Bip39 compatible. I haven't played with Armory very much at all, and it's been years since I have, so this may have changed in recent years.

Yes that's true, the release version which isn't updated since 2021 is using its own backup scheme.
But the development version has recently updated with BIP39 support just 4 months ago, the developer doesn't have an ETA on the release date though.

Reference: https://github.com/goatpig/BitcoinArmory/pull/692

DireWolfM14

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Last I was aware, Armory wallet also generates a seed phrase that's not Bip39 compatible. I haven't played with Armory very much at all, and it's been years since I have, so this may have changed in recent years.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on June 29, 2023, 12:56:00 PM

All wallets use BIP39 with the exception of Electrum so you're not going to have anya compatibility issues.

We should not assume all unless it is tested and known to support BIP39 seed phrase. People using wallets that are not reputed may find it too late before they will realize that their wallet is not BIP39 wallet.

Like this example that we discussed in the past: To be careful of the noncustododial wallet we are using these days

OmegaStarScream

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Quote from: Zoomic on June 29, 2023, 12:50:17 PM

-snip-
Incase we have seed phrases that are not compatible with different wallets, how do I see a complete seed phrase and identity the wallet that generated it?

To add to the above, pretty much all wallets use BIP39 to create wallets, with the exception of Electrum which has its own system[1].

You can still import BIP39 wallets to Electrum though, but an Electrum seed will only work with Bluewallet.

[1] https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/seedphrase.html

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: Zoomic on June 29, 2023, 12:50:17 PM

My question is BIP39 mnemonic phrase is very popular. Is it a unanimous phrase standard?
Why is it popular?

It is BIP39

BIP, Bitcoin Improvement Proposal. Accepted by the bitcoin community.

Quote from: Zoomic on June 29, 2023, 12:50:17 PM

Incase we have seed phrases that are not compatible with different wallets, how do I see a complete seed phrase and identity the wallet that generated it?

You can not know a wallet that generates a BIP39 seed phrase. But you can know if a wallet is BIP39 seep phrase or not.

To know if a seed phrase is a BIP39 seed phrase, import it on a wallet that support BIP39 seed phrase and check if the addresses are the same. Do it with a seed phrase generated for an experimental purpose, not your coin seed phrase.

Zoomic

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This could be a simple question, but I will not pretend that I know while deep down me, I do not know.
My question is BIP39 mnemonic phrase is very popular. Is it a unanimous phrase standard?
Why is it popular?
Incase we have seed phrases that are not compatible with different wallets, how do I see a complete seed phrase and identity the wallet that generated it?

Topic: BIP39 mnemonic phrase. - page 2. (Read 706 times)