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Topic: bitbet.us scammers ignore delivered BFL products - page 9. (Read 11554 times)

full member
Activity: 216
Merit: 100
I don't think USB cables fall under the category of advertised performance

No, but when the only cables for the device are USB cables, that implies power performance  ~5W.

I know I don't have a copy of the original advertising/order page for the small BFL 5GH/s unit but "everyone knows" that they were advertised as running from the power of 2 USB plugs.

I ordered from them twice (before the bet and after the bet) and wattage was never mentioned anywhere. And no, the page doesn't say it will run off the usb cables. This is like some of the No voters trying to say that delivering 1 USB cable instead of 2 is less than 10% of the advertised performance specs. Grow up and accept that you lost.
hero member
Activity: 499
Merit: 500
I don't think USB cables fall under the category of advertised performance

No, but when the only cables for the device are USB cables, that implies power performance  ~5W.

I know I don't have a copy of the original advertising/order page for the small BFL 5GH/s unit but "everyone knows" that they were advertised as running from the power of 2 USB plugs.
full member
Activity: 216
Merit: 100
http://bitbet.us/bet/337/bfl-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-may-1st/

BFL has delivered many pre-orders already and they are within the +-10% range of the advertised 5GH/s (+-10% running variance).

Don't deal with them, they don't listen to reason and just do what they please.

The bet didn't say GH/s, the bet said "performance".

Given that one of the "performance" features that BFL advertised was power usage, and given that power usage is rougly 6x originally advertised, I think a fair case could be argued that the bet outcome was clearly a "no".

(I'm not a bettor by the way).

GH/s is the only spec that has ever been advertised on the product page. Forum posts by moderators have never counted as a real statement, you can look up similar cases with google.

Pretty sure "running off 2 USB plugs" implies power usage ~5W....


I don't think USB cables fall under the category of advertised performance
hero member
Activity: 499
Merit: 500
http://bitbet.us/bet/337/bfl-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-may-1st/

BFL has delivered many pre-orders already and they are within the +-10% range of the advertised 5GH/s (+-10% running variance).

Don't deal with them, they don't listen to reason and just do what they please.

The bet didn't say GH/s, the bet said "performance".

Given that one of the "performance" features that BFL advertised was power usage, and given that power usage is rougly 6x originally advertised, I think a fair case could be argued that the bet outcome was clearly a "no".

(I'm not a bettor by the way).

GH/s is the only spec that has ever been advertised on the product page. Forum posts by moderators have never counted as a real statement, you can look up similar cases with google.

Pretty sure "running off 2 USB plugs" implies power usage ~5W....
full member
Activity: 216
Merit: 100
http://bitbet.us/bet/337/bfl-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-may-1st/

BFL has delivered many pre-orders already and they are within the +-10% range of the advertised 5GH/s (+-10% running variance).

Don't deal with them, they don't listen to reason and just do what they please.

The bet didn't say GH/s, the bet said "performance".

Given that one of the "performance" features that BFL advertised was power usage, and given that power usage is rougly 6x originally advertised, I think a fair case could be argued that the bet outcome was clearly a "no".

(I'm not a bettor by the way).

GH/s is the only spec that has ever been advertised on the product page. Forum posts by moderators have never counted as a real statement, you can look up similar cases with google.
hero member
Activity: 499
Merit: 500
http://bitbet.us/bet/337/bfl-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-may-1st/

BFL has delivered many pre-orders already and they are within the +-10% range of the advertised 5GH/s (+-10% running variance).

Don't deal with them, they don't listen to reason and just do what they please.

The bet didn't say GH/s, the bet said "performance".

Given that one of the "performance" features that BFL advertised was power usage, and given that power usage is rougly 6x originally advertised, I think a fair case could be argued that the bet outcome was clearly a "no".

(I'm not a bettor by the way).
full member
Activity: 216
Merit: 100
http://bitbet.us/bet/337/bfl-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-may-1st/

BFL has delivered many pre-orders already and they are within the +-10% range of the advertised 5GH/s (+-10% running variance).

Don't deal with them, they don't listen to reason and just do what they please.

EDIT:

1. 28-03-2013 BFL announced that the at least the first rounds of products they are about to deliver will use more power than previously thought: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status-2.html#post20942
2. 30-03-2013 The BitBet was created: http://bitbet.us/bet/337/bfl-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-may-1st/
3. 27-04-2013 The first reports of delivered products hit the internets, including https://forums.butterflylabs.com/jalapeno-single-sc-support/2088-guess-who%92s-got-two-thumbs-jalapeno%85%85-guy%85.html

There's my proof.

Quote
Butterfly Labs aka BFL will deliver ASIC Bitcoin mining devices to their customers before 1st of May 2013. Devices must be in scope of at least +-10% of advertised performance in order to be accepted as valid.

Let's break this apart a bit shall we?

Quote
Butterfly Labs aka BFL will deliver ASIC Bitcoin mining devices

  • can be established to true/false
  • turned out to be: true

Quote
to their customers

  • can be established to true/false
  • no percentage or quantity defined, thus any quantity will result in true
  • turned out to be: true

Quote
before 1st of May 2013

  • can be established to true/false
  • turned out to be: true

Quote
Devices must be in scope of at least +-10% of advertised

  • cannot be univocally established to true/false (BadBet)
  • "advertised" can be interpreted in many ways ie. what mediums are considered to be official advertisement
  • Sources supporting "Yes" answer
    • Official BFL FAQ says that the company will not give out any info relating to power consumption
    • Official BFL product pages only advertised GH/s performance
    • BFL Forum post from 28-03-2013 by BFL_JOSH says announces that at least first products will use more power than needed, customers can opt to wait longer (first devices will still use more power) or to get a refund
  • Sources supporting "No" answer
    • BFL Forum post from 2012-09-29 (later superceded by 28-03-2013 anncouncement)
  • true is supported by more sources, referenced "No" source was negated

Quote
performance in order to be accepted as valid.

  • cannot be univocally established to true/false (BadBet)
  • "performance" can be interpreted in many ways ie. Performance per Joule (GH/J), Gigahashes per secons (GH/s)
  • Sources supporting "Yes" answer
    • Official BFL FAQ says that the company will not give out any info relating to power consumption, thus Performance per Joule should be out of the picture
    • Official BFL product pages only advertised GH/s performance, thus Performance per Joule should be out of the picture
    • BFL Forum post from 28-03-2013 by BFL_JOSH says announces that at least first products will use more power than thought before, customers can opt to wait longer (first devices will still use more power) or to get a refund
  • Sources supporting "No" answer
    • BFL Forum post from 2012-09-29 (later superceded by 28-03-2013 anncouncement)
  • true is supported by more sources, referenced "No" source was negated

The bet should not have been allowed in the first place as per BitBets FAQ/EULA. After it was accepted, when it became clear that bettors couldn't agree what advertised performance was (see the comments about in the bet, people even here can't agree) the bet should have been cancelled.

Now if BitBet doesn't stick to their own policies and still wants to resolve the bet, "Yes" is a clear winner because it is supported by more sources and the only "No" source was negated when 28-03-2013 announcement stated that the devices will consume more power than previously advertised.

Let me know if you still think that the 28-03-2013 announcement doesn't say that the first products will perform worse in terms of GH/J and I will help you out.
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