Topic: BitBox02 Experiences (Read 485 times)

It's a great way to remain in control in situations where you want to give bitcoin to someone who is prone to losing stuff or misplacing them. I have such irresponsible people in my family circle. They would lose their feet if they could take them off. There is still the issue with them getting hacked or leaking the seed somehow, but at least you could protect them from losing their keys.

The Jade can be used for that as well. I haven't looked into it though.

Wow, they move in the right direction. BIP 85 eligible child keys are very convenient feature that allows to disseminate them among different wallets and at the same time to have care about single SEED, solely, namely master SEED from which they were generated.

I use my child seeds generated by Passport 2 to setup wallets on a few hardware devices in my possession.

I couldn't find a dedicated thread for Bitbox hardware wallets, so this one will do.

The company has releases a new BitBox app update that introduces a few changes and improvements. One new feature that was added is child keys following the BIP85 standard. The BitBox02 can now generate separate child keys of 12 or 24 words derived from your main (parent) seed. Lost child keys can always be recovered by the holders of the parent seed.   

Source:
https://bitbox.swiss/blog/bitbox-04-2024-brienz-update/

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think BitBox is the first hardware wallet that is adding Lightning Network support on their BitBox02 devices.
They are using static invoices with inbound liquidity from Breez wallet, but there is no need to create any additional backups.
This is currently in closed alpha stages, but I think we can expect to see official release later this year.
Few months ago they released a blog article about adding Lightning to BitBoxApp.

Check out few minute long video demonstration how everything works:
https://twitter.com/BitBoxSwiss/status/1767488957770551400

Well, I've played around with a lot of wallets, and the ones that stick out to me are Mycelium, Trust, and Ledger.  Over time it seemed like the wallet devs just kept adding all of this extraneous stuff that's just bloat to me, and it always gave me an icky feeling seeing it.  I mean can you imagine if the bitcoin core wallet suddenly contained a link to some partner's site where you could exchange BTC (or whatever service you can think of)?

Hopefully the people at Bitbox don't start going down that road.  We can debate the merits of that insurance service all day long, but where does that kind of partnering end?

Their target audience is only those who have invested a significant amount without having the proper knowledge of protecting their assets ^{[these are the type of people who only care about results, so they tend to throw away money for any type of protection (even if the trade-off is between convenience and privacy)]}.

• It's quite frustrating to see BitBox and some of the other known brands have chosen the route of offering solutions that rub more salt into the wound!

I completely agree with the above line ^{[If it doesn't mean sacrificing some of the necessary features]}.

Hm.  I'm puzzled as to why anyone who'd get a HW wallet would also sign up for insurance like that, especially when it requires all sorts of personal information.

And I have to say that when it comes to wallets--from software ones to hardware--the simpler, the better.  I'm not a big fan of all of these services a lot of them are offering, and in some cases who the wallet maker is partnering with.  I suppose you don't have to see any of that on HW wallets if you're not using the manufacturer's app (like Ledger Live), but it'd be so nice if you could use their apps without it looking like there's someone on the other side actively trying to sell you a bunch of shit.

I'm a fan of Bitbox, though, at least until or unless they lose people's trust like Ledger.  Hope that doesn't happen.

I have mixed feelings about this... In some cases, it might come in handy for those who don't know how to properly protect their devices but at the same time, if their servers get compromised, they'll be putting all of their users at a higher risk of having to deal with "burglary and extortion" attempts ^{[at this point, it doesn't matter it's insuring its users for such things]}:

• e.g.
  Based on the steps in "this video ^{[the steps on their website appear to be the same for the three supported hardware wallets]}", it requires giving your xPub and various other information ^{[name, birthdate, email, number, registered address, postal code]} to the third-party in question!

today BitBox released the first update of this year with Fletschhorn 02.2024
it offers features such as an improved account overview and a deactivated screensaver for interactive actions. in addition, a new type of Bitcoin insurance (with Bitsurance as a german startup), improved verifiable seed generation and self-transfer validation are available with the update.


further information and where to download the new update can be found in the following links:
https://bitbox.swiss/blog/bitbox-02-2024-fletschhorn-update/
https://bitbox.swiss/download/

There is maximum length to the passphrases that you can use. At least, that's the case with Trezor. I remember that I couldn't use the full length of a passphrase I initially wanted to use, so I compromised and got rid of several characters. Trezor allows a maximum length of 50 characters when it comes to the passphrases. 

today the new BitBox 12.2023 Sustli update was released, which brings the following features:

• remember wallet - this allows the app to remember your wallet and display your balance without the BitBox being plugged in
• android screen lock - here you can now add a lock to the BitBoxApp to protect sensitive information from curious eyes
• hide amounts - here all displayed funds are hidden and replaced by star characters
• wallet connect - with this feature you can interact with Ethereum dapps without installing a wallet as a browser extension

further information and where to download the new update can be found in the following links:
https://bitbox.swiss/blog/bitbox-12-2023-sustli-update/
https://bitbox.swiss/download/

I'm no technical wizard by any stretch of the imagination, but from what I've heard from members here any device with a secure element (including the Bitbox wallets) is subject to the same problems Ledger revealed to the world--and all of you who do understand the machinations of key exfiltration by HW wallet manufacturers please correct me if I'm wrong.  However, I'd trust Bitbox over Ledger any day of the week, and if you've got to use a HW wallet the Bitbox02 isn't a bad one at all.  Whatever you decide, my advice--which you already seem to be leaning toward--is to ditch Ledger ASAP.  I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking they're a ticking time bomb just waiting to go off.

The only two problems I have with Bitbox is their UI (which you don't have to use) and the device itself which is more cumbersome to use than a Ledger, at least for a fat-fingered fumblebum like myself.  If you're not doing a lot of sending/checking balances/etc., it probably won't matter much to you.  Good luck, and fuck Ledger!

A passphrase creates a new wallet.  In a sense, a passphrase is sort-of like having a 2 of 2 multisig, since the wallet can only be accessed with both parts, the seed and the passphrase.  The danger is that if you lose either part, you lose your coins, so your passphrase needs to be precise.  I'm a fan of using 7 words or more with a space between each, all lowercase except for things that should be capitalized, like names.

Here's a video about how to choose a strong passphrase by Crypto-Guide.  The whole video is worth watching, but I'm linking to the part where he talks about how many words to use in a passphrase.

Crypto-Guide's youtube channel is fantastic.  Zero hype.  Just quality info.  I'm shocked his videos don't get tons more views.  His stuff is among the best of the best for Bitcoin.

thanks for both your reply
I will generate a new wallet with new seed and then move funds.
In the meantime I will study a bit more passphrase option 

If I understand correctly, you already have funds in your normal wallet so if you were to add a passphrase to your used seed phrase, it'd just lead to an empty passphrase-protected wallet!
^{- This should be done when you're setting up your wallet for the first time, but only do it if you "fully" understand everything about it.}

Sure, you can do it, if you already have coins there with addresses you actively use, and if you didn't expose old seed phrase anywhere.
But if you want to be more secure than I would suggest to start fresh and generate everything from zero.

I think this is safer, but you will have to pay transaction fees, that are not always cheap.

Hi, I would like to upgrade from my ledger S to a new bitbox. I know the ledger S is supposed to be safe, but I've been thinking about it lately.
Do you think I can put the seed of the ledger in the bitbox?
Or is it safer to move the funds with some transactions? (so new seed for the bitbox)
what if I restore with the "ledger" seed, then add a passphrase and finally move them? (this last part is also unclear in my mind  )

today another video was published by BitBox, which shows how an ln transaction is received on a desktop computer and spent again via a mobile phone


https://twitter.com/BitBoxSwiss/status/1729874292249407915

I'm shocked, I tell you.  Shocked!!

Now this is actually what I came to the HW wallet section for, because I was just on Bitbox's website and saw that they were developing their own little device from which you could run a bitcoin lightning network node, which they called the BitBoxBase.  I'd never read anything on the forum about this and was wondering if anyone knew about it.  It's not revolutionary for experienced users, of course, but for retards like me it might be a neat thing to blow money on.



Guess they put the development on hold for some reason.

a counterfeit version of the BitBoxApp, the wallet software for the BitBox02, has emerged. as with the Ledger Live counterfeit, this is by no means an actually functioning version of the original software, but merely a simple visual imitation. it attempts to put the user under pressure by displaying a supposed error message asking them to enter the 12 or 24 recovery words.
fortunately, the affected user immediately became suspicious when the 'BitBoxApp' asked for his recovery words and reported the incident to the BitBox support team.
the victim caught the fake BitBoxApp himself via a top-listed search engine result. in such cases, it is easy to overlook the fact that it is not the correct domain or that the website looks incorrect in one place or another.

you can read exactly what happened in the tweet below:


https://nitter.net/BitBoxSwiss/status/1725491128521068958

the integration of a lightning wallet takes place directly in the own BitBox app. as a user, you are supposed to keep full control over your own keys.
the whole thing is made possible by a partnership with Breez SDK, which in turn relies on Greenlight as a 'lightning-as-a-service' provider.
more information can be found in the following medium article: BitBox Chooses Breez SDK for Lightning Integration

What did you mean when you said this? It makes it sound like the hardware device will provide the RNG for the entropy of the keys for the lightning wallet, but that's probably not it. Will the Lightning Network wallet be separate from the main one (with its own keys) or just a feature of the standard wallet?

with the following tweet BitBox has just announced the integration of a lightning wallet into the BitBox app. what is particularly exciting is that the ln wallet will be set up using the BitBox02 hardware.
the private keys of the cold storage naturally remain where they belong - securely on the hardware wallet. it will likely be a while before today's announcement becomes a reality for BitBox customers and the new lightning wallet can enter beta.


https://twitter.com/BitBoxSwiss/status/1714646190040449361
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08-tJSj-dU0&ab_channel=BitBox

Not that long ago a vulnerability was found with the Miniscript language and its spending policies in Ledger hardware wallets. In theory, it created wrong addresses that others could abuse to spend your coins. In practice and according to what Yamane_Keto explained, there was no wallet implementation that fully supported the Miniscript feature and the creation of descriptors. According to him, no wallet was vulnerable to the vulnerability. It has, in the meantime, been fixed. Hopefully, the BitBox team knows what not to do.

with the Motterascio update (v9.15.0) released today, the hardware wallet BitBox02 receives with miniscript an exciting new functionality in addition to minor improvements. miniscript will open up many new and, above all, more complex possibilities for storing one's own Bitcoin in the future, which can now be implemented much more reliably and easily in practice thanks to a uniform standard.
miniscript is actually not a completely new programming language, but rather a kind of interpreter that translates from a principle that is comprehensible to humans into a more complex and 'raw' Bitcoin script. this standardized conversion into the more complicated of the two languages thus enables significantly more application possibilities on the one hand.


https://bitbox.swiss/blog/bitbox-08-2023-marinelli-update/
https://github.com/digitalbitbox/bitbox02-firmware/releases/tag/firmware%2Fv9.15.0

I know about that, this touch sensitive areas are on top side and there is no connection with screen, but he has a new device and I heard that people are saying that screen scratches very easy from regular usage.
I always try to keep foils on all my devices as long as I can

I don't know if you're aware of that, but it's not a touch screen. The device just has touch-sensitive areas on all sides, under the plastic. So you don't need to touch the actual screen and scratch or smudge it. I personally really enjoy that interface, since buttons wear out and it could be easier to 'shoulder surf' when there are buttons involved.
With that said, the screen does scratch very easily (without touching it!! ); even quicker than thin, plastic screen protectors. I found cutting one of those to size works. It's a pity though that they have a logo that sticks out, because it means either a large air bubble or you need to cut out that area.

Thank you very much, dkbit98.  I will examine shiftcrypto's support link you cited.

Once I figured out how the device worked ("tap", etc.), I got used to it.  So far so good.

I saw several people complaining about that and I personally prefer normal buttons instead of touch screen fake buttons.
My suggestion is to not remove protective foil from the screen, or make your own custom one to avoid scratches.

I think you can use coin control just fine with Electrum, and to make things easier to you BitbBox02 works with other third party wallets like Wasabi, Specter and Sparrow.
If you are using their native app it's simple if you follow this simple guide and Enable coin control in Advanced Settings:
https://shiftcrypto.support/help/en-us/14-privacy/31-how-to-use-coin-control

...

I bought one (BitBox02, BTC-only) at the Miami BTC conference.  I am out of town so don't remember exactly what I paid for it, but I think it was a little bit less than I have seen online, my price was something on the order of $120.  I didn't have to worry about Sales Tax or VAT either...  Nor did they ask who I was, smile.

It was not as easy to learn as I had hoped ("tap" is a very light tap for example), but I was able to get it set up quickly, the "secondary password" was also easy and pretty clear to set up.

I have NOT yet figured out how to do "coin control" yet (out of town), that it is a feature I like about Wasabi.  I will explore that upon return home.

So after some more work exploring my device, I will likely be able to say which of Trezor Model T or BB02 I like better, but both are very good experiences as far as I am concerned.

Actually, the software shows no paths at all, that's just an assumption made by me, due to the fact that creating a new 'wallet #2' didn't create a new wallet at all, but returned the secondary wallet we had created.
Therefore I also can't easily tell what paths it uses. It's possible that you can view it somewhere in the software settings or so, but I don't have the device here to test.

I'd just wanted to make people aware of this and also encourage trying to retrieve the path of any wallet and store it together with its seed phrase backup.

Ledger does the same, however you can check the derivation paths to all your accounts from the settings menu. Each account has a slightly different derivation path. Is BitBox using something non-standard? Judging by the info on https://walletsrecovery.org/, BitBox and Ledger have the same standard paths, and it shouldn't be too difficult to adjust. Do you remember what path the account had that you created for that other person?

I don't think that BitBox device is depending on Electrum wallet, and they have their own open source application you can use if you want.
It's not the same thing if you are using only Electrum because private keys never leaves bitbox device and they never touch internet.

I don't understand what do you mean exactly?
€119 is one of the cheapest hardware wallets available on market, only trezor model one and ledger s/s+ are cheaper, but it's not a drastic difference.
Trezor one doesn't have a secure element, and ledger is all closed source device that has bunch of problems.
Bitbox is open source and it's based on modified Trezor code with addition of secure element, but I don't like their AOPP stance.

Is it clear that when using Electrum without a hardware wallet, the key resides on your PC and exposes it to a larger attack surface?

I don't have much to add to what was said above, other than the fact it's worth considering they, as a Switzerland-based company, are heavily involved in AOPP and everyone should make their own judgment on this matter. More on AOPP in this topic.

One thing that I mentioned somewhere else here in another context is that in the past I had created a 'secondary wallet' for someone in the BitBox software and after a few years when they wanted to access it again, it didn't show up. It was very counterintuitive to get it back: we had to 'create a new Bitcoin wallet' again and there the funds reappeared. They appear to be using derivation paths to allow you to have multiple different wallets under the same seed and without passphrase, but the wallet doesn't store or communicate this information to the host. So in practice, if you get a new PC, it 'forgets' that these wallets exist. It was the only 'bad experience' with this wallet, really.

On the contrary, I find it really well priced. It's 119€ with tax included, has open-source hardware and software and they offer a Bitcoin-only version with reduced attack surface. I also like that you can do SD card backups, which the only really cheaper alternatives (Trezor and Ledger) don't have. This feature alone makes it more suitable for friends & family that I don't trust remembering how to handle, store and restore seed words. It's easier for them to keep the SD card safe and plug it into a new BitBox if it breaks, to restore the seed. It's not a replacement for a proper raw paper backup, but it's a really nice addition.

I just stumbled across this thread, as I recently purchased a BitBox02 and was wondering if anyone was discussing it.  And by the way, did you go to the conference?  I looked and it was earlier in the month, so I'm curious how it was and if you ended up seeing the BitBox booth.

So far I'm impressed (or at least satisfied) with the BitBox02, though I haven't put it through heavy use by any means.  I didn't know exactly how they worked before I bought mine, and now that I've used it I'm left with this question:  Why not just use Electrum instead of having a HW wallet that depends on Electrum, which appears to be the case with the BitBox?  

Anyhow, I like the size of the device and the display.  It wouldn't even come close to the Ledger's appeal factor (for me) except for the fact that the BitBox code is open-source (which is why I got the thing in the first place).  I'm going to search this section again to see if anyone else has shared their experience with it, but if not I'd like to hear some opinions.  I can't imagine none of the HW Wallet section haven't at least tried the BitBox.

Oh, and it's way, way too expensive for what you get if you compare it to other hardware wallets.

Edit: DOH!!  I got confused with the Electrum dependence thing--I'm thinking of the Satochip, which I also tried out.  You can tell I haven't used either one that much since getting them.  My memory, it's slippin'.

You asked this before. In October 2021, you created a similar thread.
Back then, n0nce told you he used one and posted some feedback about it:

If he still uses it, he might be able to share some more info about what he thinks of it today.

...

BitBox is a sponsor at the Bitcoin 2022 Conference this April in Miami.  I plan to go, and will take a look at their booth (and Bitbox02 as well I presume).  Miami Ref: https://b.tc/conference

Have any of you had the chance to use BitBox02 (whether the Bitcoin only version or the multi-currency one)?


(I have used Trezor Model 2 and Ledger S, I prefer the Trezor)