Bitcoin 2.0 - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Walter Rothbard

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Bytecoin: 8VofSsbQvTd8YwAcxiCcxrqZ9MnGPjaAQm

Quote from: AlgoSwan on April 12, 2013, 02:41:46 PM

Banning all fiat money to exhange BTC or other cryptocurrency

You know that banning stuff is evil, right?

You are welcome to make a personal decision not to exchange BTC for certain things, and to exhort others to make the same decision. Personally, I don't spend Coin on gambling, nor on mind altering substances, and I would encourage other people to make the same personal decision. But it would be an immoral act for me to try to actually restrain them from doing so. Trying to ban people from gambling, using mind altering substances, or exchanging Coin for fiat would be an act far, far more evil than "market manipulation."

Now, I am not here to force my morality on you, but can you see that you are proposing to force your morality on other people? Give up the use of force! Those who live by force will justly suffer when force is used against them.

Luckybit

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Quote from: Bitmeat on April 11, 2013, 07:01:28 PM

It seems fine the way it is, the market just needs more liquidity so that people will use it as a currency, and not be tempted to hoard it as a commodity.

Basically what you're suggesting is the opposite of what Bitcoin stands for. Hopefully this market correction leads to a nice stable price at $15-20 for months on end, then we might start to see some more adoption.

More liquidity wont stop people from saving. But if people can earn Bitcoin then they'll be more likely to spend Bitcoin. So who is offering Bitcoin jobs?

Rassah

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Quote from: AlgoSwan on April 12, 2013, 05:03:20 PM

Banning all fiat money from BTC trading can't be called as regulation. It is prevention. I'm not against trading. I very much like to trade my BTC's with NMC, LTC, or even PPC, but not with fiat. In other words, I don't want to trade my hard-earned (mined) BTC's with paper. Computers? Sure, I like them a lot and can trade my BTC's with computers or ASICs or a medical device or some tangible stuff I need. Isn't that the main/core philosophy of satoshi?

So... don't trade with fiat? How would others trading affect you if you don't trade? And if it does, how will you prevent others from trading their own coins for fiat? The core philosophy of Satoshi was currency that can not be prevented from doing whatever you want with it. Including panic selling it on the market.

AlgoSwan

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ancap

Banning all fiat money from BTC trading can't be called as regulation. It is prevention. I'm not against trading. I very much like to trade my BTC's with NMC, LTC, or even PPC, but not with fiat. In other words, I don't want to trade my hard-earned (mined) BTC's with paper. Computers? Sure, I like them a lot and can trade my BTC's with computers or ASICs or a medical device or some tangible stuff I need. Isn't that the main/core philosophy of satoshi?

Rassah

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Quote from: alex_fun on April 12, 2013, 04:30:26 PM

What is free market? Say someone with tons of asics going to sell coins he mines daily for 70 usd for whatever crazy reason, is that free market for you? Cheesy

Someone selling a max of 1,800 coins daily, on a market that trades 750,000 coins daily? Cheesy

alex_fun

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What is free market? Say someone with tons of asics going to sell coins he mines daily for 70 usd for whatever crazy reason, is that free market for you? Cheesy

Free seems freedom of each person to act as they like. Say someone buys juice and give it to you to drink or throws it in your face

Those are both free actions

alex_fun

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Fixed rate p2p coins are possible, depends what people want.

More explanation here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/new-alt-idea-way-more-stable-and-widely-used-ideas-welcome-172549 Grin

Rassah

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Quote from: AlgoSwan on April 12, 2013, 02:41:46 PM

Banning all fiat money to exhange BTC or other cryptocurrency is the safest way to remove bitcoin manipulators. As long as you allow trading fiat money to BTC, you simply invite all sharks, wolves into a dinner with all lambs perfectly located. Just remove the fiat from all BTC ecosystem, problem disappears almost instantly.

LOL! Come here and let me tell you about this thing called "Free Market" and "Decentralized"...

christop

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Quote from: AlgoSwan on April 12, 2013, 02:41:46 PM

Banning all fiat money to exhange BTC or other cryptocurrency is the safest way to remove bitcoin manipulators. As long as you allow trading fiat money to BTC, you simply invite all sharks, wolves into a dinner with all lambs perfectly located. Just remove the fiat from all BTC ecosystem, problem disappears almost instantly.

So you want regulation? Who will enforce such a ban?

Rawted

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Quote from: pretendo on April 11, 2013, 06:54:13 PM

Nothing happened that has anything to do with inherent properties of bitcoin. It was just human psychology and hysteria trumping rational thinking, as well as failures of exchanges. You are thinking irrationally right now and acting hysterical.

100% this. BTC is not to blame here. Plus it's still way up for the year, after multiple crashes.

AlgoSwan

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

ancap

Banning all fiat money to exhange BTC or other cryptocurrency is the safest way to remove bitcoin manipulators. As long as you allow trading fiat money to BTC, you simply invite all sharks, wolves into a dinner with all lambs perfectly located. Just remove the fiat from all BTC ecosystem, problem disappears almost instantly.

wachtwoord

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Quote from: biganth on April 11, 2013, 08:55:43 PM

I'm not doubting he built a solid system and thought of every angle and I can understand the view of not controlling the circulation but how do we get to the point where we know 5 btc is a good price for a laptop when the value of btc is totally unpredictable?

With patience.

Francesco

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Quote from: biganth on April 11, 2013, 08:55:43 PM

Quote from: Rassah on April 11, 2013, 08:41:38 PM

As a matter of fact! ... No. But only because I've never met Satoshi. But what you are describing is kinda what he did. Read the history of security experts and hackers thinking up of ways to attack his Bitcoin code, going, "AHA!" when they think of something, then go look at the Bitcoin code, only to see that this was thought of and specifically fixed/compensated for. It's actually really creepy, and is the reason there's a running joke on the forums that Satoshi was a computer AI or something. A lot of the bug fixes or retools were mostly some minor oversights or new features on top of the base code, some of which were actually proposed by Satoshi as well, but just never implemented in code. No one has yet been able to improve on the underlying idea itself though (and many have tried) .
Not to say the developers haven't done a massively impressive job of cleaning, streamlining, and expanding the system.

I'm not doubting he built a solid system and thought of every angle and I can understand the view of not controlling the circulation but how do we get to the point where we know 5 btc is a good price for a laptop when the value of btc is totally unpredictable?

Point is, what's the value of 5 btc? ...why should it be expressed in dollars?

We will have succeded when we can say that 5 btc is the value of that computer -and that that computer would be really hard to price in dollars, due to the high volatility of the dollar respective to btc.

jubalix

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Quote from: Mike Christ on April 11, 2013, 07:11:16 PM

No no no no no. Do not mess with Bitcoin to accommodate fiat.

That's like saying to the banksters, "You win. We'll play."

The markets are def being manipulated, but tying Bitcoin with fiat is a baaaad idea. Then you just manipulate fiat and BTC will follow along.

Someone mentioned tying Bitcoin (colored coin?) to gold; I still don't think that's a good idea. Bitcoin should be its own thing.

this x 10

Rassah

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Quote from: tomwoods on April 12, 2013, 10:01:04 AM

So what of a p2p generated composite Consumer Price Index to help determine the real value of a bitcoin or equivalent?

Nice idea. How would you implement it, while keeping it P2P, and securing it from attacks from someone using hugely distorted prices?

tomwoods

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Quote from: Rassah on April 12, 2013, 08:29:07 AM

1) Who will mine it with enough resources to secure it?
2) Who will store and send/receive dollars and euros when people exchange them for this?
3) Who will control the issuance of this currency to make sure there's always exactly one CryptoX for each dollar/euro?
4) Who will prevent this single point of failure that's holding the cash from simply disappearing?
5) Who will prevent this single point of failure from issuing CryptoX that's not actually backed by any dollars/euros, just so they couldgive themselves more money, and debase the value of CryptoX through inflation in the process?

So what of a p2p generated composite Consumer Price Index to help determine the real value of a bitcoin or equivalent?

Maybe its best if some other crypto currency determine their value that way. Sad to say that having bitcoins today feels like I'm playing stock or casino. Doesn't help me build commerce or save assets.

Geddi

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It's the muffins that must be stopped.

Quote from: Rassah on April 12, 2013, 08:29:07 AM

3) Who will control the issuance of this currency to make sure there's always exactly one CryptoX for each dollar/euro?

If anyone can solve that, bitcoin will finally be bitcoin.

Rassah

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Quote from: virtualmaster on April 12, 2013, 04:38:53 AM

Quote from: biganth on April 11, 2013, 06:26:31 PM

It seems pretty obvious we need a new coin with a fixed conversion rate that can only be traded between individuals & businesses. How else can we stop hackers, governments or wall street from f**king everything up?

Yes we need. I posted already a proposition.
Cryptodollar and Cryptoeuro. They should be like Liberty Reserve for USD and EUR just decentralized and based on bitcoin technology.

1) Who will mine it with enough resources to secure it?
2) Who will store and send/receive dollars and euros when people exchange them for this?
3) Who will control the issuance of this currency to make sure there's always exactly one CryptoX for each dollar/euro?
4) Who will prevent this single point of failure that's holding the cash from simply disappearing?
5) Who will prevent this single point of failure from issuing CryptoX that's not actually backed by any dollars/euros, just so they couldgive themselves more money, and debase the value of CryptoX through inflation in the process?

Besides, I think you just described a bank, "but with Bitcoin technology." The two aren't compatible.

virtualmaster

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Quote from: biganth on April 11, 2013, 06:26:31 PM

It seems pretty obvious we need a new coin with a fixed conversion rate that can only be traded between individuals & businesses. How else can we stop hackers, governments or wall street from f**king everything up?

Yes we need. I posted already a proposition.
Cryptodollar and Cryptoeuro. They should be like Liberty Reserve for USD and EUR just decentralized and based on bitcoin technology.

Geddi

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 10

It's the muffins that must be stopped.

Quote from: wachtwoord on April 11, 2013, 06:52:40 PM

Quote from: biganth on April 11, 2013, 06:26:31 PM

It seems pretty obvious we need a new coin with a fixed conversion rate that can only be traded between individuals & businesses. How else can we stop hackers, governments or wall street from f**king everything up?

No, just no. Repeat after me: Nothing is fucked up.

Yes, please yes. We need a fixed rate to stop this "postage stamp collecting"

Topic: Bitcoin 2.0 - page 2. (Read 5377 times)