Bitcoin 2.0 - page 3. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Rassah

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Quote from: biganth on April 11, 2013, 09:06:36 PM

Quote from: Rassah on April 11, 2013, 09:02:36 PM

Easy. Size of total market adoption.

Seems like a conundrum, how does this market adoption happen if the value doesn't stabilize?

Same way it happened when it pushed Bitcoin from $0.01 to $100. I.e. just let the adoption slowly increase and the market work itself out. No need for any controllers to step in.

peacefulmind

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Is this a troll thread? It has to be right?

People here begging for protections and restrictions? Really?

biganth

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Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on April 11, 2013, 09:15:39 PM

Ah I disagree, the asshat discussion is right here ... you started it. You haven't got a clue what you are talking about ....

... but something must be done, I tell you!

Yes, no clue and I grovel at your feet oh mighty troll.

marcus_of_augustus

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Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: biganth on April 11, 2013, 09:00:47 PM

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on April 11, 2013, 08:59:03 PM

warning!!!warning!!!warning!!!

... "something has to be done" brigade have shown up,

lights flashing, emergency sirens blaring, something must be done, I tell you.

Asshat discussion is that way ->

Ah I disagree, the asshat discussion is right here ... you started it. You haven't got a clue what you are talking about ....

... but something must be done, I tell you!

mitty

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I find it so amusing that lots of forum users seem to be libertarian, pro-decentralization, pro-free market, anti-government backed currencies, etc, etc while the value of bitcoin in their local (government backed) currency continues to rise, and immediately start crying for control and regulation as soon as the fiat value of bitcoin drops. Use a govenment backed currency if you want security and regulation; there's no point of bitcoin if bitcoin is going to become another monetary system controlled by a trusted group of people. There are already plenty of successful currencies that are exactly this, such as the US Dollar, the Euro, Yen, GBP, etc.

You can't honestly watch the exchange rate of BTC go from $20 to $200 in a couple of months without ever wondering if it can do the reverse, can you?

There's a reason the majority of people like government-backed, regulated currencies, and that reason is to protect against what just happened to the value of bitcoin.

You can have freedom or you can have security, and you have to accept great risk with the chance of great reward.

biganth

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Quote from: Rassah on April 11, 2013, 09:02:36 PM

Easy. Size of total market adoption.

Seems like a conundrum, how does this market adoption happen if the value doesn't stabilize?

Alonzo Ewing

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Quote from: biganth on April 11, 2013, 06:26:31 PM

It seems pretty obvious we need a new coin with a fixed conversion rate that can only be traded between individuals & businesses. How else can we stop hackers, governments or wall street from f**king everything up?

Fixed conversion rate means that the new coin would be defined as X amount of dollars. As the Fed inflates the value of the dollar, so too would it inflate the value of the new coin.

Rassah

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Quote from: biganth on April 11, 2013, 08:55:43 PM

Quote from: Rassah on April 11, 2013, 08:41:38 PM

As a matter of fact! ... No. But only because I've never met Satoshi. But what you are describing is kinda what he did. Read the history of security experts and hackers thinking up of ways to attack his Bitcoin code, going, "AHA!" when they think of something, then go look at the Bitcoin code, only to see that this was thought of and specifically fixed/compensated for. It's actually really creepy, and is the reason there's a running joke on the forums that Satoshi was a computer AI or something. A lot of the bug fixes or retools were mostly some minor oversights or new features on top of the base code, some of which were actually proposed by Satoshi as well, but just never implemented in code. No one has yet been able to improve on the underlying idea itself though (and many have tried) .
Not to say the developers haven't done a massively impressive job of cleaning, streamlining, and expanding the system.

I'm not doubting he built a solid system and thought of every angle and I can understand the view of not controlling the circulation but how do we get to the point where we know 5 btc is a good price for a laptop when the value of btc is totally unpredictable?

Easy. Size of total market adoption. If more people adopt Bitcoin, the value of each coin goes up, as does the total market cap. Let's say Bitcoin is worth $20,000 in 10 years. What % is a drop of $150 from $20,000 compared to % of $150 from $260?

Just wait basically

biganth

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Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on April 11, 2013, 08:59:03 PM

warning!!!warning!!!warning!!!

... "something has to be done" brigade have shown up,

lights flashing, emergency sirens blaring, something must be done, I tell you.

Asshat discussion is that way ->

marcus_of_augustus

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 2349

Eadem mutata resurgo

warning!!!warning!!!warning!!!

... "something has to be done" brigade have shown up,

lights flashing, emergency sirens blaring, something must be done, I tell you.

biganth

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: Rassah on April 11, 2013, 08:41:38 PM

As a matter of fact! ... No. But only because I've never met Satoshi. But what you are describing is kinda what he did. Read the history of security experts and hackers thinking up of ways to attack his Bitcoin code, going, "AHA!" when they think of something, then go look at the Bitcoin code, only to see that this was thought of and specifically fixed/compensated for. It's actually really creepy, and is the reason there's a running joke on the forums that Satoshi was a computer AI or something. A lot of the bug fixes or retools were mostly some minor oversights or new features on top of the base code, some of which were actually proposed by Satoshi as well, but just never implemented in code. No one has yet been able to improve on the underlying idea itself though (and many have tried) .
Not to say the developers haven't done a massively impressive job of cleaning, streamlining, and expanding the system.

I'm not doubting he built a solid system and thought of every angle and I can understand the view of not controlling the circulation but how do we get to the point where we know 5 btc is a good price for a laptop when the value of btc is totally unpredictable?

Wuji

newbie

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If Bitcoin is desired by the world for what it was designed to be, digital currency, then the price will become stable. They don't need to start putting controls on it like they have with other currency. They need to let the free market play out. If it is needed it will continue to gain widespread adoption and so be it.

A fixed conversion rate means that it will be subject and under the control of a government rather than the free will of people. This is not what Bitcoin is about. We can already buy stuff with currency so, this kind of makes Bitcoin pointless and takes away its usefulness should the worst happen with any economy it might be tied to.

Rassah

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Quote from: biganth on April 11, 2013, 08:48:37 PM

Quote from: Rassah on April 11, 2013, 08:24:47 PM

EDIT: no one is smarter than Satoshi Angry

Does that Koolaid come in multiple flavors?

Hahahaha, no really. Go read his papers and some of the reviews by top security experts back from the 2010/2011's. I'm personally too dumb to know better, but I trust their opinions on this matter.

biganth

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Quote from: Rassah on April 11, 2013, 08:24:47 PM

EDIT: no one is smarter than Satoshi Angry

Does that Koolaid come in multiple flavors?

Rassah

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Quote from: biganth on April 11, 2013, 08:27:45 PM

Quote from: Rassah on April 11, 2013, 08:24:47 PM

I like how every time something bad happens, we have newbies come in, thinking they are smarted than Satoshi, or the 4 years of collective experience of a few brilliant developers.

Hint: If you have a seemingly obvious and "brilliant" idea, chances are it has already been thought of, debated, developed into an alt coin, and mine-attacked by Luke-jr into oblivion Grin

Hint, have you ever met a developer that developed a solid piece of software that never had a bug or needed to be re-tooled because they "didn't think of that"? Gimme a break.

As a matter of fact! ... No. But only because I've never met Satoshi. But what you are describing is kinda what he did. Read the history of security experts and hackers thinking up of ways to attack his Bitcoin code, going, "AHA!" when they think of something, then go look at the Bitcoin code, only to see that this was thought of and specifically fixed/compensated for. It's actually really creepy, and is the reason there's a running joke on the forums that Satoshi was a computer AI or something. A lot of the bug fixes or retools were mostly some minor oversights or new features on top of the base code, some of which were actually proposed by Satoshi as well, but just never implemented in code. No one has yet been able to improve on the underlying idea itself though (and many have tried) .
Not to say the developers haven't done a massively impressive job of cleaning, streamlining, and expanding the system.

ZephramC

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Quote from: Stylus on April 11, 2013, 08:31:04 PM

Quote from: r.willis on April 11, 2013, 07:28:34 PM

Come on people, what's wrong?... It's free market.

Really? The exchange that controls 80% of Bitcoin trading can declare a "market cooldown" period whenever it wants for as long as it wants, and you call that a free market?

I don't.

As long as this exchange is in this 80% position by free choice of the people and not by some government direction/regulation then yes, it is called a free market.

Stylus

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Quote from: r.willis on April 11, 2013, 07:28:34 PM

Come on people, what's wrong?... It's free market.

Really? The exchange that controls 80% of Bitcoin trading can declare a "market cooldown" period whenever it wants for as long as it wants, and you call that a free market?

I don't.

Elwar

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Viva Ut Vivas

Quote from: biganth on April 11, 2013, 08:25:16 PM

Quote from: Elwar on April 11, 2013, 08:20:34 PM

Quote from: biganth on April 11, 2013, 08:15:00 PM

If you can't determine it's worth how do you start using it as currency?

Like I do every day. Just pay with Bitcoins instead of the local currency.

So do you & the seller pick a number out of thin air and say ok 5 BTC or do you consider the value of the item in Fiat?

Of the past 3 exchanges, one of them we both agreed on 1 bitcoin no matter the price, one we decided on the dollar equivalent on the day of delivery and the third is my hosting service which charges $66/month which I pay in the equivalent amount of BTC.

biganth

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Quote from: Rassah on April 11, 2013, 08:24:47 PM

I like how every time something bad happens, we have newbies come in, thinking they are smarted than Satoshi, or the 4 years of collective experience of a few brilliant developers.

Hint: If you have a seemingly obvious and "brilliant" idea, chances are it has already been thought of, debated, developed into an alt coin, and mine-attacked by Luke-jr into oblivion Grin

Hint, have you ever met a developer that developed a solid piece of software that never had a bug or needed to be re-tooled because they "didn't think of that"? Gimme a break.

biganth

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Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: Elwar on April 11, 2013, 08:20:34 PM

Quote from: biganth on April 11, 2013, 08:15:00 PM

If you can't determine it's worth how do you start using it as currency?

Like I do every day. Just pay with Bitcoins instead of the local currency.

So do you & the seller pick a number out of thin air and say ok 5 BTC or do you consider the value of the item in Fiat?

Topic: Bitcoin 2.0 - page 3. (Read 5377 times)