Bitcoin about the free world, but not for us in the Middle East! - page 3.

mindrust

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Quote from: BitcoinHodler on July 03, 2017, 07:59:16 AM

Quote from: canvan on July 02, 2017, 04:33:13 PM

Bitcoin makes money laundering very easy thats why governments are so strict on the KYC regulations the exchanges have to follow. Localbitcoins is obviously a more expensive solution but to bypass exchanges you will always have to pay a premium, thats how the world works.

no it doesn't!
because simply put, everything is recorded publicly and you can't fake the records which are the transactions on the public ledger known as blockchain.

you can mix your coins but that is not helping the money laundering thing. you still put some money in and put some out it doesn't become clean. you should read what money laundering means.

You can launder your money with help of merchants who accept bitcoin.

I don't say it is easy but it is doable and may consume some time.

Lets say you have 100btc that you can't prove its source; If you always spend bitcoins for your daily expenses, your bank account will stay untouched. You decided to buy a laptop? Do it with your bitcoins. Buy a coffee, buy groceries etc. It will all go under the radar.

Just don't try to buy a car or house.

megynacuna

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Quote from: buwaytress on July 03, 2017, 08:27:39 AM

Quote from: European Central Bank on July 01, 2017, 12:14:23 PM

i've never come anywhere the id bullshit that's related to crypto either.

people who seem to think this is normal are wrong. you can open a bank account with a scan of a couple of documents.

i think it's because the people who operate this stuff are ultra twitchy. by the sounds of it most localbitcoins sellers want your sperm sample these days. um, nope.

I definitely feel the pain for OP. It's a huge reflection of how Bitcoin and crypto, after all, is still limited to the first world Western sphere of influence - the cheapest and easiest to access Bitcoins are outside of the Global South.

@OP if you're still reading, Localbitcoins is still the best cost-effective way to get Bitcoins with the least hassle. Unless it's changed recently, basic verification is still automated and quick (phone and ID). Yes, you pay a 10-15% premium for BTC, but that's the option available to us (I'm from Southeast Asia).

At least you have the finances to buy. Most like me earned all our coins over time, and only now have something resembling significant amounts to trade/exchange.

I totally agree with you, localbitcoins is the single most cost effective way of securing yourself some bitcoins globally, it is safe and if you have any doubts you can decide to meet in person to transact the sale, it's as simple as that and I will recommend that to OP because that's the best chance he has in acquiring bitcoins without verification.

KnightElite

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I think that you're country is not yet accepted and legalized the bitcoin. It is very hard to you to enter the world of ceyptocurrency it is because the government of yours is prohibited the bitcoin.

aesma

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Exchanges will always be regulated. To start in BTC you have several solutions, one of them will indeed be to eat a fee to buy them. You should find better than 20% though, but I'm no expert in this, I started by mining, and I don't mind giving info to buy a couple of BTC, I will mind my privacy when I'll be rich.

Keep in mind that the fee you eat today will probably be nothing in comparison to the gain you might make.

The other solution is to bypass governments completely, finding a field of work where you're paid in BTC, and finding shops where to buy in BTC. Obviously easier said than done, but it will happen eventually, and countries with a lot of black market activity won't be the last ones on the bandwagon.

buwaytress

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Quote from: European Central Bank on July 01, 2017, 12:14:23 PM

i've never come anywhere the id bullshit that's related to crypto either.

people who seem to think this is normal are wrong. you can open a bank account with a scan of a couple of documents.

i think it's because the people who operate this stuff are ultra twitchy. by the sounds of it most localbitcoins sellers want your sperm sample these days. um, nope.

I definitely feel the pain for OP. It's a huge reflection of how Bitcoin and crypto, after all, is still limited to the first world Western sphere of influence - the cheapest and easiest to access Bitcoins are outside of the Global South.

@OP if you're still reading, Localbitcoins is still the best cost-effective way to get Bitcoins with the least hassle. Unless it's changed recently, basic verification is still automated and quick (phone and ID). Yes, you pay a 10-15% premium for BTC, but that's the option available to us (I'm from Southeast Asia).

At least you have the finances to buy. Most like me earned all our coins over time, and only now have something resembling significant amounts to trade/exchange.

BitcoinHodler

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Quote from: canvan on July 02, 2017, 04:33:13 PM

Bitcoin makes money laundering very easy thats why governments are so strict on the KYC regulations the exchanges have to follow. Localbitcoins is obviously a more expensive solution but to bypass exchanges you will always have to pay a premium, thats how the world works.

no it doesn't!
because simply put, everything is recorded publicly and you can't fake the records which are the transactions on the public ledger known as blockchain.

you can mix your coins but that is not helping the money laundering thing. you still put some money in and put some out it doesn't become clean. you should read what money laundering means.

timerland

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Quote from: saidtalib on July 01, 2017, 10:29:54 AM

It's not so straightforward to buy bitcoin in the Middle East. Yes, I have tried everything. If bitcoin was about the free world, why all the exchanges ask for very strict verification that even the stock exchanges don't ask for? I have never had to take a selfie with my passport in my entire 40 yrs of life until I came in to the bitcoin world, what the heck?!! All the exchanges take ages to verify and when they do, they discriminate those from the middle east. Most of them don't allow us to use fiat currency to buy bitcoin, so how the hell new comers will buy it? The barriers of entry to the bitcoin world are too many for people in middle east, am sick of it.

I find the conventional banks much easier to deal with than the bitcoin exchanges. Guess what? I was successfully registered in one after waiting for a month, only to be told I can't spend more than 300 Dollars a week in buying bitcoin, seriously??? I freaking have thousands of dollars to invest and they want me to spend 300 dollars a week for a coin worth $2500???

Now, the easy way is to buy from others, but I am gonna have to pay a premium of 10 to 20 pct above fair market value to buy and that's BS!

I am thinking to start my own ICO for an exchange that has commercial sense an open to the world. We need a revolution here.

I think that it is just the exchange that you are using is pretty crappy.

If you want 100% anonymity then go ahead and use localbitcoins, p2p trading is going to be the future.

How is it BS? It just shows how useful bitcoin is because unlik efiat currencies, it is interchangeable. Each unit is just as the same as the other, you don't need to worry about chargebacks or anything like that. Conventional banks being easier to deal with? Oh please. First of all they only open like 8 hours a day and you have to wait 1 hour just to get to talk to someone. Secondly, as you're experiencing now, it is hard to convert fiat into "real" money, aka bitcoin, gold etc., isn't it?

stompix

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How about you tell us first two things

a) in which country in ME you live
b) what exchange you have tried to use.

Because there are lots of countries in the ME where you can easily buy bitcoins and I think that in some you might have problems syria/yemen/iran ).

And , it is not bitcoin fault.
It's the fault of the people around you that didn't try harder to get those coins.
If you're alone in a country of 10 million and nobody else give a damn about crypto, yeah it's going to be a problem.
You can't force somebody to sell you coins without verification, without knowing who you are thing that might get them in jail in their own countries and furthermore at the price you want.

So calm down and take it sips by sip

.

mindrust

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Which country are we talking about? The Middle East has many countries. Some people consider Turkey as a ME country too, yet you can buy bitcoins very easily there.

If you don't want to deal with the banks your only chance is finding a seller who sells his bitcoins locally.

hubballi

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Quote from: Mandoy on July 03, 2017, 04:37:10 AM

Quote from: saidtalib on July 01, 2017, 10:29:54 AM

It's not so straightforward to buy bitcoin in the Middle East. Yes, I have tried everything. If bitcoin was about the free world, why all the exchanges ask for very strict verification that even the stock exchanges don't ask for? I have never had to take a selfie with my passport in my entire 40 yrs of life until I came in to the bitcoin world, what the heck?!! All the exchanges take ages to verify and when they do, they discriminate those from the middle east. Most of them don't allow us to use fiat currency to buy bitcoin, so how the hell new comers will buy it? The barriers of entry to the bitcoin world are too many for people in middle east, am sick of it.

I find the conventional banks much easier to deal with than the bitcoin exchanges. Guess what? I was successfully registered in one after waiting for a month, only to be told I can't spend more than 300 Dollars a week in buying bitcoin, seriously??? I freaking have thousands of dollars to invest and they want me to spend 300 dollars a week for a coin worth $2500???

Now, the easy way is to buy from others, but I am gonna have to pay a premium of 10 to 20 pct above fair market value to buy and that's BS!

I am thinking to start my own ICO for an exchange that has commercial sense an open to the world. We need a revolution here.

When we speak of verification it is not only limited to the Middle East, Asian countries have also that kind of system. This is due to the AML/KYC policies and regulations being place by your Central Banks. The exchanges have but to comply with those laws in your country so they can operate. It is the same also with stock exchanges, countries outside the middle east have also a strict verification in terms of trading. There is no discrimination and that is not the problem here. The biggest problem is the limit of the exchanges to convert your bitcoins into your local currency since that is their safety net so that their business will go on. But hope all exchange will increase the withdrawal limit.

What you are saying is true that the verification process is regulated by the each country law so that their should be some regulation in using crypto currency and illegal activities should be curbed. About the limit that limit is for the start of the account once the account is started and after some months of transaction your limit goes high as the times goes.

Mandoy

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Quote from: saidtalib on July 01, 2017, 10:29:54 AM

It's not so straightforward to buy bitcoin in the Middle East. Yes, I have tried everything. If bitcoin was about the free world, why all the exchanges ask for very strict verification that even the stock exchanges don't ask for? I have never had to take a selfie with my passport in my entire 40 yrs of life until I came in to the bitcoin world, what the heck?!! All the exchanges take ages to verify and when they do, they discriminate those from the middle east. Most of them don't allow us to use fiat currency to buy bitcoin, so how the hell new comers will buy it? The barriers of entry to the bitcoin world are too many for people in middle east, am sick of it.

I find the conventional banks much easier to deal with than the bitcoin exchanges. Guess what? I was successfully registered in one after waiting for a month, only to be told I can't spend more than 300 Dollars a week in buying bitcoin, seriously??? I freaking have thousands of dollars to invest and they want me to spend 300 dollars a week for a coin worth $2500???

Now, the easy way is to buy from others, but I am gonna have to pay a premium of 10 to 20 pct above fair market value to buy and that's BS!

I am thinking to start my own ICO for an exchange that has commercial sense an open to the world. We need a revolution here.

When we speak of verification it is not only limited to the Middle East, Asian countries have also that kind of system. This is due to the AML/KYC policies and regulations being place by your Central Banks. The exchanges have but to comply with those laws in your country so they can operate. It is the same also with stock exchanges, countries outside the middle east have also a strict verification in terms of trading. There is no discrimination and that is not the problem here. The biggest problem is the limit of the exchanges to convert your bitcoins into your local currency since that is their safety net so that their business will go on. But hope all exchange will increase the withdrawal limit.

NJB18

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Your concern I think is a domestic issue. Such concerns vary from country to country.

It may not be an isolated case because from where I am posting, somewhere in Southeast Asia, I was also asked to have a selfie while holding the government-issued valid ID I submitted to them. The confirmation took at least a week I guess. That was only to open a local wallet.

krishnapramod

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Quote from: saidtalib on July 01, 2017, 10:29:54 AM

It's not so straightforward to buy bitcoin in the Middle East. Yes, I have tried everything. If bitcoin was about the free world, why all the exchanges ask for very strict verification that even the stock exchanges don't ask for? I have never had to take a selfie with my passport in my entire 40 yrs of life until I came in to the bitcoin world, what the heck?!! All the exchanges take ages to verify and when they do, they discriminate those from the middle east. Most of them don't allow us to use fiat currency to buy bitcoin, so how the hell new comers will buy it? The barriers of entry to the bitcoin world are too many for people in middle east, am sick of it.

I find the conventional banks much easier to deal with than the bitcoin exchanges. Guess what? I was successfully registered in one after waiting for a month, only to be told I can't spend more than 300 Dollars a week in buying bitcoin, seriously??? I freaking have thousands of dollars to invest and they want me to spend 300 dollars a week for a coin worth $2500???

Now, the easy way is to buy from others, but I am gonna have to pay a premium of 10 to 20 pct above fair market value to buy and that's BS!

I am thinking to start my own ICO for an exchange that has commercial sense an open to the world. We need a revolution here.

1. As far as KYC/AML is concerned, exchanges are simply following government's guidelines because bitcoin is somewhat regarded as a currency used for money laundering and funding of terrorist activities. It would be impossible to run a licensed bitcoin exchange without being compliant with verification processes and tax rules.

2. If your country does have a local bitcoin exchange then it is better to use them than opting for international exchanges, quick verification, and legally compliant with your local governance.

3. Yeah, sometimes the disadvantage of using a local exchange is a substantial difference in price, based on demand at times it can go up to 15% higher than the international market.

I don't know if you have already tried, https://bitoasis.net/en/

Quote

With BitOasis you can now easily buy bitcoin in AED. Our exchange is currently present in UAE, Kuwait, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia.

cafucafucafu

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Quote from: saidtalib on July 01, 2017, 10:29:54 AM

It's not so straightforward to buy bitcoin in the Middle East. Yes, I have tried everything. If bitcoin was about the free world, why all the exchanges ask for very strict verification that even the stock exchanges don't ask for? I have never had to take a selfie with my passport in my entire 40 yrs of life until I came in to the bitcoin world, what the heck?!! All the exchanges take ages to verify and when they do, they discriminate those from the middle east. Most of them don't allow us to use fiat currency to buy bitcoin, so how the hell new comers will buy it? The barriers of entry to the bitcoin world are too many for people in middle east, am sick of it.

I find the conventional banks much easier to deal with than the bitcoin exchanges. Guess what? I was successfully registered in one after waiting for a month, only to be told I can't spend more than 300 Dollars a week in buying bitcoin, seriously??? I freaking have thousands of dollars to invest and they want me to spend 300 dollars a week for a coin worth $2500???

Now, the easy way is to buy from others, but I am gonna have to pay a premium of 10 to 20 pct above fair market value to buy and that's BS!

I am thinking to start my own ICO for an exchange that has commercial sense an open to the world. We need a revolution here.

I don't think that it does any good to blame this occurance on bitcoin at all.

Firstly, would you tell us the exchanges that you have been working with? Because it seems odd that you can only purchase $300 a week if you are already verified, because that's usually the sort of limit that you have in place for unverified accounts.

Secondly, make sure that you understand how bitcoin works. bitcoin is NOT regulated by any governments or institutions like the SEC, only bitcoin DERIVATIVES and EXCHANGES are. Once your funds are in bitcoin, they can be freely transacted all across the world.

Your argument about traditional banks being better than bitcoin is also untrue. Search up in your local bank how much it costs to send a transaction to a foreign country, and how crap the conversion rates are. Now compare this to the flat $1.5 or so fee that you pay when using bitcoin. Thought so.

DoublerHunter

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I don't think that it is permanent for the middle east people to not be able to get bitcoin because if the governments in the middle east will see bitcoin as a good opportunity for their country to also get economic growth because it can attract more tourist like bitcoin users to spend their bitcoin to that country because of the beautiful sight seeing that they can see in the middle east countries.

TimeTeller

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Quote from: aTriz on July 03, 2017, 12:50:13 AM

Your major misunderstanding is that you're assuming bitcoin exchanges is bitcoin itnself.

Sure, it is a big part of bitcoin, but it is regulated by governments because it deals with fiat. The real problem here is fiat, not bitcoin. You'd have absolutely no issues once you buy your bitcoin, and want to cash it out, but you'll have lots of verification to go through because of AML and KYC laws in your country that dictates the bitcoin exchange industry.

A simpler way to understand it is that, bitcoin is fungible, fiat is not. Therefore, they have to check whether your fiat is trustworthy or not(risk reduction of it being stolen funds), whilst bitcoin is trustless.

And no, ICO for an exchange? That's a BAD idea. In fact, i'm pretty sure that some exchanges have done this before and failed miserably, both themselves and the investors.

Quote from: Anegg on July 03, 2017, 03:11:36 AM

That happens everywhere, whenever I convert Bitcoins to Fiat currency I need to have I'd and whenever I buy Bitcoin of Coinbase, I need to have to a verified account which need ID to be verified. Everyone need ID to buy Bitcoin it's not just your country.

You can try finding people who sell Bitcoin for not that much of a fee, or use localbitcoins, Coinbase, coinjar to buy off. It's also not Bitcoins fault, it the government. It isn't Bitcoin itself which is making it hard for you to purchase but your goverment instead. Why is it so simple for me in Australia to buy bitcoin? It's because our government is more lenient towards buying Bitcoin. Truly sorry you are unable to buy Bitcoin from your area, but I hope you figure out a way.

I agree with the above posts. I believe it's everywhere and not only in the Middle East.
Because the governments are now implementing such laws for this crypto exchanges, they are forced to follow this AML & KYC laws. So having verified thru your ID is not new. And just one of those rules that they have to follow.
Before, my local exchange for btc didn't require this KYC thing, but once this law in my country was approved, they started to collect info from their customers and I had to send scanned copy of one of my govt IDs & took a selfie also.
So that's normal protocol if you are dealing with fiat & crypto. But if you're dealing with cryptocurrency only, then of course that's a different scenario already.

Anegg

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Quote from: saidtalib on July 01, 2017, 10:29:54 AM

It's not so straightforward to buy bitcoin in the Middle East. Yes, I have tried everything. If bitcoin was about the free world, why all the exchanges ask for very strict verification that even the stock exchanges don't ask for? I have never had to take a selfie with my passport in my entire 40 yrs of life until I came in to the bitcoin world, what the heck?!! All the exchanges take ages to verify and when they do, they discriminate those from the middle east. Most of them don't allow us to use fiat currency to buy bitcoin, so how the hell new comers will buy it? The barriers of entry to the bitcoin world are too many for people in middle east, am sick of it.

I find the conventional banks much easier to deal with than the bitcoin exchanges. Guess what? I was successfully registered in one after waiting for a month, only to be told I can't spend more than 300 Dollars a week in buying bitcoin, seriously??? I freaking have thousands of dollars to invest and they want me to spend 300 dollars a week for a coin worth $2500???

Now, the easy way is to buy from others, but I am gonna have to pay a premium of 10 to 20 pct above fair market value to buy and that's BS!

I am thinking to start my own ICO for an exchange that has commercial sense an open to the world. We need a revolution here.

That happens everywhere, whenever I convert Bitcoins to Fiat currency I need to have I'd and whenever I buy Bitcoin of Coinbase, I need to have to a verified account which need ID to be verified. Everyone need ID to buy Bitcoin it's not just your country.

You can try finding people who sell Bitcoin for not that much of a fee, or use localbitcoins, Coinbase, coinjar to buy off. It's also not Bitcoins fault, it the government. It isn't Bitcoin itself which is making it hard for you to purchase but your goverment instead. Why is it so simple for me in Australia to buy bitcoin? It's because our government is more lenient towards buying Bitcoin. Truly sorry you are unable to buy Bitcoin from your area, but I hope you figure out a way.

Ayiranorea

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As one of the user mentioned the Islamic banking rules were the one that make its hard. In reality the Islamic banks have some funny schemes where the person who holds an account will never get an interest because it's wrong based on the religious faith, but the same time they'll get Interest on loans. So even in East Asia the usage is depending upon us.

freedomno1

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Middle East opinions are interesting since it is an area I do not know much of the KYC AML for, concerns about it conforming to Islamic Banking rules perhaps would be a bigger issue in Arab countries than elsewhere, but it may make sense to just make your own operations if it is this hard for people to utilize in the current state, entrepreneurship is needed all around the world.
I guess the barrier is to remove the barrier and trade globally with those who take wires or something but that raises its own flags ..., I guess the most logical thing is to take a vacation and buy Bitcoins there if your travelling.

aTriz

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Quote from: saidtalib on July 01, 2017, 10:29:54 AM

It's not so straightforward to buy bitcoin in the Middle East. Yes, I have tried everything. If bitcoin was about the free world, why all the exchanges ask for very strict verification that even the stock exchanges don't ask for? I have never had to take a selfie with my passport in my entire 40 yrs of life until I came in to the bitcoin world, what the heck?!! All the exchanges take ages to verify and when they do, they discriminate those from the middle east. Most of them don't allow us to use fiat currency to buy bitcoin, so how the hell new comers will buy it? The barriers of entry to the bitcoin world are too many for people in middle east, am sick of it.

I find the conventional banks much easier to deal with than the bitcoin exchanges. Guess what? I was successfully registered in one after waiting for a month, only to be told I can't spend more than 300 Dollars a week in buying bitcoin, seriously??? I freaking have thousands of dollars to invest and they want me to spend 300 dollars a week for a coin worth $2500???

Now, the easy way is to buy from others, but I am gonna have to pay a premium of 10 to 20 pct above fair market value to buy and that's BS!

I am thinking to start my own ICO for an exchange that has commercial sense an open to the world. We need a revolution here.

Your major misunderstanding is that you're assuming bitcoin exchanges is bitcoin itnself.

Sure, it is a big part of bitcoin, but it is regulated by governments because it deals with fiat. The real problem here is fiat, not bitcoin. You'd have absolutely no issues once you buy your bitcoin, and want to cash it out, but you'll have lots of verification to go through because of AML and KYC laws in your country that dictates the bitcoin exchange industry.

A simpler way to understand it is that, bitcoin is fungible, fiat is not. Therefore, they have to check whether your fiat is trustworthy or not(risk reduction of it being stolen funds), whilst bitcoin is trustless.

And no, ICO for an exchange? That's a BAD idea. In fact, i'm pretty sure that some exchanges have done this before and failed miserably, both themselves and the investors.

Topic: Bitcoin about the free world, but not for us in the Middle East! - page 3. (Read 3820 times)