Bitcoin already using too much power by 2020? - page 2.

sana54210

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Quote from: zimmah on June 11, 2016, 08:40:23 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Only environmental freaks are concerned Bitcoin is the future.

there are clean solutions to generate energy, and also, more transactions does not mean more power is used.

the amount of miners it irrelevant to the amount of transactions. No matter if you have 1 or 1 million transactions, you only need 3 miners. (actually only 1 but than it wouldn't be decentralized).

More miners just means more security because of more decentralization.

Besides, the only miners are those that have access to dirt-cheap electricity and utility bills.
Bitcoin wouldn't consume a considerable amount of power that will change the predicted increase of energy-dependency.

BurtW

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Quote from: zimmah on June 11, 2016, 08:40:23 AM

more transactions does not mean more power is used.

the amount of miners it irrelevant to the amount of transactions. No matter if you have 1 or 1 million transactions, you only need 3 miners. (actually only 1 but than it wouldn't be decentralized).

More miners just means more security because of more decentralization.

You are correct that there is no correlation between number of transactions and power consumption.

You are correct that there is no correlation between number of miners and number of transactions.

Then you make a statement about the minimum number of miners which I do not completely follow. I guess it is true that the network could survive with a very small number of mining companies but that is not relevant to the fact that this small number of mining companies would consume as much power as they could afford.

The number of mining companies has no correlation to the amount of power the miners use.

Power consumption is proportional to price no mater how many miners do the mining and consume the power.

zimmah

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Only environmental freaks are concerned Bitcoin is the future.

there are clean solutions to generate energy, and also, more transactions does not mean more power is used.

the amount of miners it irrelevant to the amount of transactions. No matter if you have 1 or 1 million transactions, you only need 3 miners. (actually only 1 but than it wouldn't be decentralized).

More miners just means more security because of more decentralization.

patricken

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Quote from: Woshib on June 11, 2016, 06:44:07 AM

Yes, I think it's really a problem, because if the Bitcoin continue to grow, it will eventually consume much of the world's electricity, and if there is a power outage, it will surely be blocked.
Maybe in the future there will be solutions for that.

The power consumption will not rise when the block reward+ fee is the same level as before. When that rises, the power usage will rise.

Woshib

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Yes, I think it's really a problem, because if the Bitcoin continue to grow, it will eventually consume much of the world's electricity, and if there is a power outage, it will surely be blocked.
Maybe in the future there will be solutions for that.

BurtW

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Quote from: Real-Duke on June 10, 2016, 02:23:35 PM

Quote from: Mandoy on June 09, 2016, 11:49:52 PM

Hahaha well that really is the irony of mining, thats why we needs to purchase high-number pieces of technology to lessen power consumption.

I bet the power consumption over all won't go down if we buy always the newest hardware but the speed of hashing increases like we can see in difficulty again and again

Unlike all you clueless "we just need more efficient mining equipment" signature campaign thread spammers, Real-Duke figured it out.

Real-Duke

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Quote from: Mandoy on June 09, 2016, 11:49:52 PM

Hahaha well that really is the irony of mining, thats why we needs to purchase high-number pieces of technology to lessen power consumption.

I bet the power consumption over all won't go down if we buy always the newest hardware but the speed of hashing increases like we can see in difficulty again and again

BurtW

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Quote from: Mandoy on June 09, 2016, 11:49:52 PM

Hahaha well that really is the irony of mining, thats why we needs to purchase high-number pieces of technology to lessen power consumption.

What on Earth? Purchase more equipment to reduce power consumption? No.

Quote from: ranochigo on June 09, 2016, 10:45:20 PM

Factoring in the technological improvement in ASIC, the power consumption efficiency is getting higher and higher with the cost of the equipment. This can help to reduce power consumption. Solar power and renewable energy would probably be more developed and widely used by then.

Again NO. Power consumption is not affected by mining efficiency. Mining efficiency only affects difficulty.

Again NO. The source of the power used does not affect power consumption. Using 100 GW of solar power is the same as using 100 GW of coal power. It is the same amount of power.

Quote from: Jasad on June 09, 2016, 09:10:28 AM

Quote from: awesome31312 on June 08, 2016, 10:41:36 PM

Eventually, technological advances will lower the cost of resources required to mine Bitcoins. You are not addressing that with your math. I will post more detailed calculations later.

i will wait for your post about calculations.

I also am waiting with baited breath for your math showing how the cost of resource used to mine Bitcoins will be going down. Are you expecting a breakthrough in cold fusion? BTW if the cost of power were to actually go down then the Bitcoin network would adjust by using more power until it again consumed the maximum power it could afford. So if the cost of power goes down the Bitcoin network would consume even more power - not less.

Note that the cost of power (c) is in the denominator in the power estimation formula meaning that the lower the cost of power the higher the power consumption:

P = (6(50/2^e) + f)(x)(1 - g)/c [kW]

where:

x = exchange rate [USD/BTC]
e = era [0..32] (we are currently in era 1)
f = average fees per hour [BTC/hour]
c = cost of energy [USD/kWh]
g = average gross profit margin [unitless ratio]

awesome31312

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Quote from: Chrismeister on June 10, 2016, 04:24:57 AM

Quote from: Jasad on June 09, 2016, 09:10:28 AM

Quote from: awesome31312 on June 08, 2016, 10:41:36 PM

Eventually, technological advances will lower the cost of resources required to mine Bitcoins. You are not addressing that with your math. I will post more detailed calculations later.

i will wait for your post about calculations.
i think its not happen when bitcoin halving come,i guess some miners quit from mine bitcoins or at least they think mine bitcoin no longer profitable. lets wish this is really happen.

The value of Bitcoin is not even rising that fast and you have to know that it is really hard to predict what will happen in the future with Bitcoin in 2020 so that is risky.
And many people are thinking that the value will be higher in that year because it was already stable for a long time.

I think Bitcoin's value is stagnating. In about four years or so the price range would still be between $500 to $600.

But I wouldn't know, I don't have 20-20 vision Cool

Chrismeister

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Quote from: Jasad on June 09, 2016, 09:10:28 AM

Quote from: awesome31312 on June 08, 2016, 10:41:36 PM

Eventually, technological advances will lower the cost of resources required to mine Bitcoins. You are not addressing that with your math. I will post more detailed calculations later.

i will wait for your post about calculations.
i think its not happen when bitcoin halving come,i guess some miners quit from mine bitcoins or at least they think mine bitcoin no longer profitable. lets wish this is really happen.

The value of Bitcoin is not even rising that fast and you have to know that it is really hard to predict what will happen in the future with Bitcoin in 2020 so that is risky.
And many people are thinking that the value will be higher in that year because it was already stable for a long time.

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Quote from: Real-Duke on June 09, 2016, 07:12:32 AM

First time I talked about mining with a friend he asked me wondered: You burn power to earn money?
Yes for some reason it sounds bad Undecided

Wow, your friend cares about the natural conditions,But you right it's sound is very bad. Many people are willing to sacrifice a variety of resources that exist in nature for the sake of earning money.

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Quote from: Real-Duke on June 09, 2016, 07:12:32 AM

First time I talked about mining with a friend he asked me wondered: You burn power to earn money?
Yes for some reason it sounds bad Undecided

Hahaha well that really is the irony of mining, thats why we needs to purchase high-number pieces of technology to lessen power consumption.

ranochigo

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Quote from: ObscureBean on April 05, 2016, 03:16:36 AM

I just stumbled upon this article that claims Bitcoin could be consuming as much energy as Denmark by 2020 Shocked

Since I gave up mining in 2014, I've almost forgotten just how much electricity goes into making Bitcoins. This got me wondering whether the devs are already working on a solution to this problem. Anyone knows what the plan is?

http://inhabitat.com/power-hungry-bitcoin-could-consume-as-much-energy-as-denmark-by-2020/

There is no plan that I know of that could effectively solve this issue. My take is that they should not modify anything in the protocol. PoS is quite flawed since the larger merchants and holders can hold a monopoly over the network with little costs, giving government chances to do so too. Factoring in the technological improvement in ASIC, the power consumption efficiency is getting higher and higher with the cost of the equipment. This can help to reduce power consumption. Solar power and renewable energy would probably be more developed and widely used by then.

sobsitesearch

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Quote from: MingLee on June 09, 2016, 05:50:11 PM

Quote from: blackmachinegun on June 09, 2016, 05:39:31 PM

Quote from: Jasad on June 09, 2016, 09:10:28 AM

Quote from: awesome31312 on June 08, 2016, 10:41:36 PM

Eventually, technological advances will lower the cost of resources required to mine Bitcoins. You are not addressing that with your math. I will post more detailed calculations later.

i will wait for your post about calculations.
i think its not happen when bitcoin halving come,i guess some miners quit from mine bitcoins or at least they think mine bitcoin no longer profitable. lets wish this is really happen.

I think the miners would not go for a halving of the year. reward is still promising. and many more that have not been mined bitcoin? I'm sure the miners are still eager to be bitcoin mining. at least not for halving this year dude

Bitcoin mining is always profitable, as long as you adjust your costs to match what it is costing you. Mining isn't like mining in real life; you can't have better deposits. You can only have the same consistent reward, and it costs the same amount per hash (most of the time) so no miner has an advantage, per say.

We'll still have a lot of miners for a fairly long time yet.

In what country have the best bitcoin mining in the whole world?
In my country i think there is no mining site that can i mine. or how to start mine my own bitcoin any recommendation? thanks

MingLee

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Quote from: blackmachinegun on June 09, 2016, 05:39:31 PM

Quote from: Jasad on June 09, 2016, 09:10:28 AM

Quote from: awesome31312 on June 08, 2016, 10:41:36 PM

Eventually, technological advances will lower the cost of resources required to mine Bitcoins. You are not addressing that with your math. I will post more detailed calculations later.

i will wait for your post about calculations.
i think its not happen when bitcoin halving come,i guess some miners quit from mine bitcoins or at least they think mine bitcoin no longer profitable. lets wish this is really happen.

I think the miners would not go for a halving of the year. reward is still promising. and many more that have not been mined bitcoin? I'm sure the miners are still eager to be bitcoin mining. at least not for halving this year dude

Bitcoin mining is always profitable, as long as you adjust your costs to match what it is costing you. Mining isn't like mining in real life; you can't have better deposits. You can only have the same consistent reward, and it costs the same amount per hash (most of the time) so no miner has an advantage, per say.

We'll still have a lot of miners for a fairly long time yet.

blackmachinegun

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Quote from: Jasad on June 09, 2016, 09:10:28 AM

Quote from: awesome31312 on June 08, 2016, 10:41:36 PM

Eventually, technological advances will lower the cost of resources required to mine Bitcoins. You are not addressing that with your math. I will post more detailed calculations later.

i will wait for your post about calculations.
i think its not happen when bitcoin halving come,i guess some miners quit from mine bitcoins or at least they think mine bitcoin no longer profitable. lets wish this is really happen.

I think the miners would not go for a halving of the year. reward is still promising. and many more that have not been mined bitcoin? I'm sure the miners are still eager to be bitcoin mining. at least not for halving this year dude

Cuidler

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Quote from: BTCBinary on June 09, 2016, 07:37:54 AM

The PoW algo is an energy consuming process. Surely the future is not PoW because in due time it will turn the network totally unprofitable. Either they solv this issue by introducing a new and less energy spending algo or either they improve the PoS algo and try to implement it on Bitcoin

I dont see reason why Bitcoin mining should be totally unprofitable in the future. Obviously the unprofitable miners turns off and sell their mining equipment and only those profitable keep mining. Obviously electricity cost is main factor whether you can be profitable, but always someone with lowest electricity cost must be profitable, now and in the future as well.

About the too much power used by 2020, it depends about Bitcoin price and block rewards and I dont expect the Bitcoin price will skyrockets so much to justify much higher power usage for Bitcoin mining, plus in 2020 next halving bring block rewards down to just 6.25 Bitcoins each.

spazzdla

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Quote from: Amph on April 05, 2016, 03:56:12 AM

this is the same argument over and over again, banks are using and wasting much more power than bitcoin can even dream with its network

also the energy used it's kind of a backup for the value of bitcoin

I was hoping for this comment.

Jasad

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= jasad =

Quote from: awesome31312 on June 08, 2016, 10:41:36 PM

Eventually, technological advances will lower the cost of resources required to mine Bitcoins. You are not addressing that with your math. I will post more detailed calculations later.

i will wait for your post about calculations.
i think its not happen when bitcoin halving come,i guess some miners quit from mine bitcoins or at least they think mine bitcoin no longer profitable. lets wish this is really happen.

Cuntabula

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Quote from: BurtW on June 09, 2016, 08:13:43 AM

Quote from: JanpriX on June 09, 2016, 08:00:59 AM

By that time (2020), more people should be using solar power in a major way. And the equipment for this type of energy source should be cost efficient because right now, only few have been using this due to its price being costly. Using solar power is also a great form of investment because it will provide more benefits in the long run (in terms here, for the miners/farms of BTC).

If you are trying to say that massive energy consumption by Bitcoin mining will drive energy prices up to the point that renewable energy will become cost competitive then... maybe.

Yep, that's why I drive a big block Chevy with Hilborn mechanical injection, because I care about environment. With all them fuel-efficient cars around, we'll never switch over to clean, renewable energy.

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