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Topic: Bitcoin and global warming - page 11. (Read 3019 times)

hero member
Activity: 1372
Merit: 503
November 26, 2017, 09:55:04 AM
#52
I think our main problem is the huge electricity expense induced by mining and its noxious effect on the climate. This is, to my mind, the only serious argument against Bitcoin.
Alleviating the electricity expense should be one of our priorities. If we do not do it for the sake of the Earth (which we really should) we should at least do it selfishly because governments will not tolerate this forever and they will be right. The more the exchange rate increases, the worse it gets, of course.
Some solutions exist though: first there is proof-of-stake, of course. This technology may be too young to be deemed reliable enough but we should at least start considering it.
If we do not like proof-of-stake I think we could drammatically decrease the electricity expense by stopping monetary creation now. Nowdays Bitcoin is famous enough to remain secure even if miners earned transaction fees only. And if as a whole there are 16.5 M coins instead of 21 M, this does not make much of a difference. That is even good for holders. To make miners agree with that solution, they must be compensated for their lost income.  More precisely, active miners must be compensated because they have already bought ASICs. Futures miners do not need to be compensated. Since mining is a competitive industry, future miners will make no profit on average, whatever the reward scheme. To compensate active miners we could decide that the next 2016 blocks yield, say, 100 new coins and then 0 forever. Everybody would win and the Earth above all!
There are probably many other solutions and I wish the community cared a little more about this fundamental issue.

Well yes if you are talking about mining for gold and how it affects the environment then that is true. however if we are integrating the payment for bitcoin it can affect acou try in a bad way especially if those countries are not able to integrate bitcoin correctly
sr. member
Activity: 700
Merit: 350
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November 26, 2017, 09:47:03 AM
#51
I don't agree with you and you are not seeing the whole point here. I'm not saying that solutions to reduce the electricity cost of mining should not be searched, but saying that the cost of mining is an argument against bitcoin is wrong in my opinion. If you think about it, the fiat system infrastructure consumes way much electricity than bitcoin mining. Are you saying that governments will shut down Banks, ATMs, the Visa and MasterCard network, exchanges, stock markets, etc? They only serve the fiat system purpose, and mining serves the bitcoin purpose. It's not that different. Both are important to society from my perspective, so the cost in mining is just.
Yes, we need to use renewable energy sources, etc, but that apply to everything and not just bitcoin mining.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
November 26, 2017, 09:37:41 AM
#50
the lack of bitcoin and mining will not improve the situation...If people really wanted to prevent the destruction of the Earth, we could for a short time go to alternative sources...but it is not profitable for anyone...there is no point in attributing bitcoin here
member
Activity: 224
Merit: 10
The Experience Layer of the Decentralized Internet
November 26, 2017, 08:08:10 AM
#49
Don't put all the environmental problems of lai to COINS, over the years I have heard too much, everything related to environmental protection, but dig for almost have no effect on the influence of environmental protection, do not have a one-sided view.
member
Activity: 532
Merit: 15
November 26, 2017, 07:31:33 AM
#48
What would you say about Solar Powered Envion Mobile Mining Units or Hydro Power based mining? If I see your way, your online presence is also causing Global Warming. Not only this, Every tech you use, every processed food you eat, every cloth you wear causing serious damage to the climate. Please try to be a little logical. Maybe you are one of those who just hate Bitcoin, but, please come with something solid.
member
Activity: 294
Merit: 10
November 26, 2017, 06:47:32 AM
#47
bitcoin and global warming, global warming is a very hot issue nowadays, it affects a lot of us, our health or our lives every day.
The warming of the world is determined by the people themselves, by our actions and actions when exploiting the resource mines.
Bitcoin is a hot topic nowadays, because the bitcoin price is too high... Angry Angry Angry
full member
Activity: 322
Merit: 102
November 26, 2017, 06:35:27 AM
#46
Well, if we will just discuss about the electricty consumption most especially to bitcoin mining, I think this should not be an issue because there are renewable energies now that can be also used to have electricty in doing so. In fact we all know that it is not just bitcoin that really gets people attention to spend energy resources but sooooo many still out there.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
November 26, 2017, 06:27:07 AM
#45
Definitely, the rising demand of Bitcoin miners has lead to increase in the demand of electricity which further creates heat, which impacts upon global warming. Recently, it was discovered that energy used by Bitcoin miner is equivalent to 150 countries usage, such a large extent of consumption of power has surely lead harmful impacts upon environment also. But the positive side is that many people are  shifting to renewable energy and converting heat energy exhausted by machines in valuable resources like warming their houses.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
November 26, 2017, 06:14:51 AM
#44
Wow this serious problems i think,
We all need money, but how we get money without destroying our ecosystem.
maybe developer out there should give us more solution about this.
global warming is really serious problem for our planet anyway  Embarrassed

I run our house from a renewable supply (when I changed tariff it was actually a bit cheaper). When I do mining, therefore, it's all renewable. It's not hard - you just have to choose to change.
full member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 108
November 26, 2017, 02:24:26 AM
#43
Wow this serious problems i think,
We all need money, but how we get money without destroying our ecosystem.
maybe developer out there should give us more solution about this.
global warming is really serious problem for our planet anyway  Embarrassed
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1137
All paid signature campaigns should be banned.
November 25, 2017, 08:17:11 PM
#42
...but in an economic perspective this would destroy markets and may cause hyperinflation in some countries.
By definition and design Bitcoin cannot experience hyperinflation.  So, you must be talking about hyperinflation of a country's government or central bank issued fiat currency as people dump that crap for something better.  You cannot blame the hyperinflation of an unstable government run fiat currency on Bitcoin.  The fault would land squarely on the fiat currency or more specifically the government or central bank mismanagement and misuse of said currency.

A long time ago I derived a formula to estimate the amount of energy the miners will attempt to use based on the assumption that, on average, the mining sector will burn as much energy as they can afford to burn:

P = (6(50/2e) + f)(x)(1 - g)/c [kW]

where:

x = exchange rate [USD/BTC]
e = era [0..32] (we are currently in era 2)
f = average fees per hour [BTC/hour]
c = cost of energy [USD/kWh]
g = average gross profit margin [unitless ratio]

Here is a quick stab at the numbers.  If you think you have more accurate numbers put them in the formula and see what you get.

x = $8,800 per BTC
f = 6 x 1.25 = 7.5 BTC/hour
c = $0.10 per kWh
g = 0.1 miner gross profit margin

P = (6(50/22) + 7.5)(8800)(1-0.1)/0.1
   = (6(12.5) + 7.5)(8800)(0.9)/0.1
   = (82.5)(8800)(0.9)/0.1
   = 6,534,000 kW
   = 6.534 GW

So at $8,800 per BTC the mining sector will attempt to burn about 6 GW.  They may not get there due to shortages of miners, build out delays, etc. but they will try.
hero member
Activity: 866
Merit: 1001
November 25, 2017, 07:31:54 PM
#41
Countries which do not find any allegations against bitcoin to ban it may use such complaints as global mining due to bitcoin mining to ban bitcoins.We know very well if we want to avoid global warming,we would have to ban lots of ongoing projects today and it would definitely seem to be illogical to do so.But no one would agree to stop mining reward which is given to miners.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
November 25, 2017, 07:26:43 PM
#40
Does anyone know/have any figures about the total power consumption that bitcoin requires currently? It should be high I'm sure, and should also go even higher in the future. However, compared to other industries, where does bitcoin rank exactly? I would assume bitcoin's power consumption still ranks lower in comparison to most of the business sectors.

Quote
a constant total mining draw of just over one gigawatt...That means that, at a minimum, worldwide Bitcoin mining could power the daily needs of 821,940 average American homes.


I would say that qualifies as high.  You could also look at it as giving people jobs. Bitmain makes money selling antminers, miners make money mining and power companies make money selling electricity.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ywbbpm/bitcoin-mining-electricity-consumption-ethereum-energy-climate-change
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 506
November 25, 2017, 07:22:49 PM
#39
I have been hot lately, is this the real reason behind it then? Cheesy Please guys stop mining so much, I am suffering here half way around the world, Have mercy on flowers and trees Cheesy I think if BIG Wu stops mining so much of bitcoin and bitcoin cash all together we could feel the chill on earth.
Do you know how many nukes have been detonated for testing purposes?
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
November 25, 2017, 07:11:54 PM
#38
This may be bad for the environment, yeah you are right about that but bitcoin is just a piece of the puzzle, there are other contributing factors that affect the environment not just bitcoin. if electricity is just the problem; i meant if that is the thing that is destroying the environment then we should have went back to the darker days but that is not the problem here. I think it is the pollution that is emitted by the factories that produces plastic or other toxic substance, mining bitcoin may have effects to the environment but it is just small; what is emitted by the miners are just heat and not smog.
hero member
Activity: 2002
Merit: 535
November 25, 2017, 07:00:43 PM
#37
The idea of switching into a cryptocurrency payment may sound good, but the drawbacks are highly toxic especially when it comes to hacking and scamming due to its nature. You may be right that the process of making fiat and gold mining harm the environment but if we adapt the system of payment into digitalized forms, this would create chaos into the economies of countries around the world. We may lessen the the impact of pollution around the world slowly, but in an economic perspective this would destroy markets and may cause hyperinflation in some countries.
I would like to hear about the major drawbacks you are talking about,having a decentralized currency might reduce the inflation factor you are talking about,do you think that the fiat currency will cure the economic crises ,bitcoin mining does cost energy and will it affect the entire global climate ,it is minimal considering the fact that there are other damaging things going on in the industrial world.
member
Activity: 210
Merit: 12
November 25, 2017, 06:30:02 PM
#36
You can also consider secondary effects from cryptocurrencies. If it helps to increase wealth in poor nations, consumption may rise too. It's only fair they get to enjoy the luxury that rich nations have enjoyed for centuries, but it does mean the world has to find a way to cope with the consequences of higher resources demand and energy use.
member
Activity: 85
Merit: 10
November 25, 2017, 06:24:35 PM
#35
In part, if you think about exploiting bitcoin, it affects the power source. But the reality of global warming is largely due to the growing industrial activity around the world. Deforestation in poor and developing countries is also stressful.
member
Activity: 210
Merit: 12
November 25, 2017, 06:18:02 PM
#34
With bitcoin and climate change the main issues are #1 emissions and #2 carbon sequestration.

There has been a shift towards so called renewable energy which is promoted as being environmentally friendly. This negates bitcoin's electrical consumption to a good degree.

The main issue with climate change involves 80% of the world's natural forests being cut down. Trees naturally store (sequester) carbon. The destruction of forests reduces the planet's ability to store carbon emitted into the atmosphere.

Another major issue is a large percentage of rainfall being produced by forests. Water is pulled from the earth and evaporated through the leaves of trees/plants. This produces rainfall. Cutting down large swaths of forest reduces water which would normally be evaporated which in turn produces drought.

The only legitimate methods of addressing climate change are afforestation programs. Seed bombing. Fighting desertification. Basically planting trees and protecting rain forests.

Then I have bad news for you. Deforestation is poised to become worse as the world has decided trees are a source of renewable energy.
member
Activity: 238
Merit: 10
The Experience Layer of the Decentralized Internet
November 25, 2017, 04:36:39 AM
#33
This does have a certain impact, after all, mining will consume energy, but these consumption to some extent can be avoided, POS and POW mechanism is different, is to change the problem
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