Bitcoin and the failure of El Salvador

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Quote from: savetheFORUM on September 10, 2022, 01:56:56 PM

Quote from: adzino on September 08, 2022, 11:29:16 PM

El Salvador hasn't failed. You seem to be supporting bitcoin, but why did you have to set the title of this thread like that? You make it sound like bitcoin and El Salvador, both has failed. You are only spreading FUDs through your clickbait title.

I haven't kept myself updated with El Salvador, but as far as I know, they haven't sold any bitcoins yet. So they haven't lost anything. You are only going to lose if you are going to sell your coins!

They haven't, the president is still keeping the bitcoins and chances are he will keep it as long as he is the president, and only if he loses the election then the new one may end up selling. The "failed" part they are talking about is the fact that not everyone is in love with the legal tender idea in El Salvador, which is expected but some maximalists didn't expected that. They wanted their own nation to make it legal tender as well but they saw that people are protesting against bitcoin and that is the risky stuff that we are talking about.

As long as people are protesting, that means it is not 100% fully integrated into the culture just yet, and some see that as failure.

Actually the decision had been made was really just too fast which i couldnt really blame out people not to make out those kind of impressions and reactions on making Bitcoin as a legal tender.
It does really need that ample time on making adjustments but it seems the President is really making on point decisions and the rest would really be learned along the way.Its not really a bad
step or initiative but it does really make some things stir up since its not been not that organized.If ever the current President wouldnt be elected on next term then i wont really be surprised
that the next one would really be selling those coins and would really be reverting it back to fiat than on making bitcoin as a legal tender.

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Quote from: minairia3 on September 08, 2022, 04:37:48 AM

It's been a year since ElSalvador took the bold step of becoming the first country in the world to accept Bitcoin as a legal tender. The market is going through bad days so a lot of people think that ElSalvador failed, defaulted when accepting Bitcoin... but I think they were too hasty in judging someone. We all know Bitcoin is a long term investment measured in years, so to know if someone will fail or succeed in investing in Bitcoin give them a few years time.

There's no denying that ElSalvador's investment is losing money, but that's when you're talking USD value, not Bitcoin. ElSalvador bought a total of 2,381 BTC and their Bitcoins remained unchanged.

We always tell each other that 1BTC = 1BTC,
if you don't sell, you won't lose, why rush to conclude that they failed, when they haven't sold any Bitcoins yet?
It can be said that this country has never given up, they are still on the way to building their "Bitcoin City"❤.

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It doesn't matter when you enter the market, it matters how long you stay

ElSalvador has been trying to make Bitcoin mass adoption and we, Bitcoiners, instead of denigrating or laughing at them, we should wish them success one day. Once they succeed, they will be a big impetus for other countries to move towards mass Bitcoin adoption.

Congratulations once again #BitcoinDayAtElSalvador.

The country of El Salvador has been very supportive of Bitcoin for a long time. But the amount of BTC they have invested is surprising. Because if you want to invest in Bitcoin then you must be long You have to invest in time steps. And in a few days if you are considering the unique aspect It is not possible to make BTC during the day. Therefore if you have to invest then you will never face loss if you invest for a long time. So if you invest for a long time the results will be very good and you can get benefits

savetheFORUM

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Quote from: adzino on September 08, 2022, 11:29:16 PM

El Salvador hasn't failed. You seem to be supporting bitcoin, but why did you have to set the title of this thread like that? You make it sound like bitcoin and El Salvador, both has failed. You are only spreading FUDs through your clickbait title.

I haven't kept myself updated with El Salvador, but as far as I know, they haven't sold any bitcoins yet. So they haven't lost anything. You are only going to lose if you are going to sell your coins!

They haven't, the president is still keeping the bitcoins and chances are he will keep it as long as he is the president, and only if he loses the election then the new one may end up selling. The "failed" part they are talking about is the fact that not everyone is in love with the legal tender idea in El Salvador, which is expected but some maximalists didn't expected that. They wanted their own nation to make it legal tender as well but they saw that people are protesting against bitcoin and that is the risky stuff that we are talking about.

As long as people are protesting, that means it is not 100% fully integrated into the culture just yet, and some see that as failure.

haasanjui

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El salvador makes bitcoin legal tander but The reason of failure of El salvador is the falling Cryptocurrency prices. And Bitcoin Price got down by half of it.

jostorres

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Quote from: piebeyb on September 09, 2022, 12:46:44 AM

when people sell their BTC to fiat currency then it will become a separate value it can be high or decrease in value, but actually what they don't realize is 1 BTC is 1 BTC and never changes, there is no need to determine a price value of 1 BTC with currency fiat money then it might be a panic in itself when the market is bear like this, so I don't think el salvador will fail they will benefit from holding their bitcoins, just need to wait 1 or 3 years from now

If they sell the for fiat at the pump then the value of the fiat that they will get is still high but if they don't spend it immediately or re invest it again then the value of their fiats can decrease over time due to the effects of inflation. This is why it's still important to have bitcoin with us as bitcoins doesn't depreciate in value but it can only grow in value the longer you hodl it.

I like the idea of El Salvador supporting bitcoin and making it as a legal tender but what I only dislike is the approach of people towards this. They are protesting thinking btc can do harm more than good. I think they judge btc too early. Why can't they try and observe it first?

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El Salvador legalised Bitcoins, and that seems failure to some people?
I mean how you could even say that? Just because the bear market, it seems to you as failure?
Have you heard the news a month ago, when El Salvador bought 100 Bitcoins in these cheap price? According to me this is very smart move.
They know the potential of the coin and therefore bought it in cheaper price.
For me this not failure, as Btc is taking longer time to move up. This is just a temporary time phase which will eventually pass and Salvador will be glad on his decisions.

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It is wrong to call what El Salvador has an "investment" because they didn't buy bitcoin to sell it for profit. In other words even if bitcoin was $1 million today, they still wouldn't be selling what they'd bought.
The plan was to attract investments from others, obviously the government had to have some bitcoins of their own then attract foreign investors which is exactly whey they had such massive projects like that bitcoin city thing. An obvious tourist and foreign investor attraction, specially due to very low cost of living there.

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the government of el salvador does not need to buy a lot of bitcoin and force its people to buy bitcoin to say that they are in mass adoption, I believe that what the government of el salvador could do would be the following:

1 - pass a law that allows all people from el salvador to buy bitcoin, receive salaries in bitcoin, pay bills and tax with bitcoin

2 - pass laws that allow people to deduct a portion of their bitcoin for pension and life and health insurance

3 - pass a law that allows all people from el salvador to make payments and accept bitcoin payments

these laws would already guarantee mass adoption, the government would not need to be spending people's money and buying bitcoin to be showing off on social media

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Quote from: tranthidung on September 08, 2022, 05:46:42 AM

This is always true but does it help your or any entity if you can not hold your Bitcoin long enough to get profit?

No one is helped by that except the Bitcoin holder himself whose price is already greater than what he has ever bought in the market.

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You don't know how long you will have to hold it to the profitable date so don't bet. El Salvador President bet that Bitcoin will rise in near future and his country is in serious debt crisis. This is his mistake and collapse can occur if his country has to sell all Bitcoin to get cash for paying debt interest or other reasons.

Not only me, but everyone else will also not know until they have to hold the Bitcoins they have for profit. So it's true that it's not forever in the long term, but when the price of Bitcoin decreases and becomes cheap in the market, Bitcoin almost very often takes a little longer to rise again to a higher price so the analogy for the long term is always more suitable though it is not known when the auspicious date will occur for sure.

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However I disagree to anyone accuse El Salvador. They just made a history for Bitcoin and the world and we should appreciate that. Especially if the argument or accusation is from people (I don't say it is you) who got profit with the bull run of Bitcoin that is partially contributed by El Salvador legal tender news. They should say thank you to the President and El Salvadorians.

I also don't like any accusation if it's not based on clear evidence against it (El Salvador). But for me what El Salvador is doing is something that can influence other countries to take Bitcoin more seriously even though El Salvador is still experiencing losses at the moment because Bitcoin has not increased as much as El Salvador wanted.
But if El Salvador can survive the difficulties they are currently facing, then there is a possibility for El Salvador to succeed through their investment or through the adoption of Bitcoin that they have done.

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People saying that El Salvador has failed in their bitcoin adoption, it a depends on what their definition of failure is. As an individual, if I bought bitcoin when it was at $50k and hold till now, am I going to be called a failure? Definitely no, I could rather be called a strong hand or a die hard hodler.
Why is the case of a nation different?
I will only consider that El Salvador bitcoin agenda or adoption has failed when the country makes a public announcement that they have sold all their bitcoin. If they do so at bear, I will say they failed, but I am not certain if I will also say so when they sell on profit.

Apart from the financial profit which hasn't come yet, but which will inevitably come, El Salvador has gotten some kind of exposure in the world, they have become a country for tourists. I read somewhere in the forum that about 40+ countries would converge in El Salvador for a bitcoin conference. These are goodnews that bitcoin brought to the country. So El Salvador hasn't failed yet and their is a very little odd that they will fail.

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Quote from: Asiska02 on September 09, 2022, 12:40:47 PM

Quote from: minairia3 on September 08, 2022, 04:37:48 AM

We always tell each other that 1BTC = 1BTC,
if you don't sell, you won't lose, why rush to conclude that they failed, when they haven't sold any Bitcoins yet?
It can be said that this country has never given up, they are still on the way to building their "Bitcoin City"

I've never once thought that El Salvador's move to adopt bitcoin will be unsuccessful. A very capable leader, Nayib Bukele has a bright future for his nation. He won't fail at this, in my opinion. I'm sure he foresaw the market's volatility before deciding to invest in bitcoin and is aware of how unstable it may be. If he hadn't been so determined, he would have sold all of his bitcoins when the market started to decline instead of buying more so he could benefit later. They will be among the richest nations and have plenty in their reserves if they can continue to stay up with the market. No matter how long it takes to reap the rewards, he is aware that 1BTC = 1BTC always.

^ Definitely right.
I don't think there is a failure, El Salvador still owns their BTC, they even not selling it because they are afraid of further loss. Which is I think the president of that country probably knows to sell BTC and how potential is waiting ahead when the price becomes reached the new ATH.
There is no failure to me, instead, it is the start the country will benefit from the crypto market soon.

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Quote from: Asiska02 on September 09, 2022, 12:40:47 PM

I'm sure he foresaw the market's volatility before deciding to invest in bitcoin and is aware of how unstable it may be. If he hadn't been so determined, he would have sold all of his bitcoins when the market started to decline instead of buying more so he could benefit later. They will be among the richest nations and have plenty in their reserves if they can continue to stay up with the market. No matter how long it takes to reap the rewards, he is aware that 1BTC = 1BTC always.

I also think like you. Even if we as retail investors can see bitcoin volatility as inevitable, there's no reason why a president and a team of advisers behind him shouldn't see it. This is not the first time bitcoin slump met, it has happened many times in the past so I am sure they are prepared for situations like this before deciding to invest in bitcoin.

As @kryptqnick mentioned, they only invest a small amount of government budget in bitcoin and even if bitcoin falls further it won't affect their economy too much.

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Quote from: minairia3 on September 08, 2022, 04:37:48 AM

We always tell each other that 1BTC = 1BTC,
if you don't sell, you won't lose, why rush to conclude that they failed, when they haven't sold any Bitcoins yet?
It can be said that this country has never given up, they are still on the way to building their "Bitcoin City"

I've never once thought that El Salvador's move to adopt bitcoin will be unsuccessful. A very capable leader, Nayib Bukele has a bright future for his nation. He won't fail at this, in my opinion. I'm sure he foresaw the market's volatility before deciding to invest in bitcoin and is aware of how unstable it may be. If he hadn't been so determined, he would have sold all of his bitcoins when the market started to decline instead of buying more so he could benefit later. They will be among the richest nations and have plenty in their reserves if they can continue to stay up with the market. No matter how long it takes to reap the rewards, he is aware that 1BTC = 1BTC always.

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Quote from: Baofeng on September 08, 2022, 04:47:49 AM

Quote from: passwordnow on September 08, 2022, 04:41:11 AM

We should take it like this when the market is bullish and we've been on that for so long. These critics will tell that El Salvador did a genius idea and decision.
But when the market is bearish, we'll hear them say that El Salvador did a foolish thing of investing in bitcoin and now they're dropping in losses and only looking at that certain point. It's the same to us when somebody mocks us when our investments are falling due to the drop that we're having in the market. These people are only waiting for our failures but when we're on our peak of having profits, they're silent.

Yes, and I think the government of El Salvador has taken this into account already. So when we are in bearish state, they continue to accumulate as much as they can.

So let's see what their critiques will say when we goes into another bull run in 2024-2025. Perhaps they will hide again just like the rest of the anti-bitcoiners who went into hibernation when the market is rallying and come out of the rock when the bearish trend enters.

That's all I'm just waiting and that's going to be an inevitable situation for most. The bull run is going to be there again as much as they're critics during the bear market.
They're all just watching out when everyone is down with their portfolios but let's see how it's going to be when everyone is at gain or when the ones they're critical about is showing perfect gains when we're all in bullish market.

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Quote from: Apocollapse on September 08, 2022, 11:03:20 AM

El Salvador accepting Bitcoin as legal tender isn't a failure, talking about price is the main reason of failure is a baseless opinion.

When Bitcoin become legal tender, it's mean it's used as a currency for daily spending. Not like other countries which accept Bitcoin as an underlying asset that mainly for investment or trading. El Salvador never failure to accept Bitcoin as legal tender, even the price decrease for 95% it can't be said as failure. It's failure when there's no citizens on El Salvador didn't ever use Bitcoin!

Those who say fail certainly do not understand how bitcoin works. if bitcoin is fully adopted of course bitcoin is still bitcoin, not based on value in fiat. El Salvador is a bolder country than any other country, even El Salvador, led by Nayib Bukele, will make Bitcoin City and become the center of bitcoin usage. this is even a great future bitcoin plan. El Salvador is one step ahead of any other country. Failure is only for those who don't believe in bitcoin and this adoption is still new and needs time for better development.

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I don't agree if you say bitcoin and the failure of El Salvador, SE as if you claim that El Salvador failed to manage bitcoin and make bitcoin a legal currency in their country, for now bitcoin is in decline but we need to emphasize to all people falling in price is not a failure of El Salvador in adopting bitcoin, because in my personal opinion as long as bitcoin is still an investment and is still accepted by all people, it is not a failure it is just a price drop and one day the price of bitcoin will definitely go up again.

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Quote from: adzino on September 08, 2022, 11:29:16 PM

El Salvador hasn't failed. You seem to be supporting bitcoin, but why did you have to set the title of this thread like that? You make it sound like bitcoin and El Salvador, both has failed. You are only spreading FUDs through your clickbait title.

I haven't kept myself updated with El Salvador, but as far as I know, they haven't sold any bitcoins yet. So they haven't lost anything. You are only going to lose if you are going to sell your coins!

You just said the real fact regarding El-Savador which many failed to understand, in a country you can't expect to have a large number of people and be in a leadership position without having challenges from them because even the more you do in giving out to serve the people the more they begin to say negative things about your deeds, El-Savador knows what it's doing right now and its steps where not just an ordinary ones, it's well backed up with convictions and it holding capacity is not yet a thing of doubt or failure, that's what is meant to invest and take the risk forgetting about what others are saying.

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I agree with the op that we shouldn't call the case of El Salvador a failure. The price is down, but they luckily didn't invest a big amount of the government's funds into it (in terms of percentage from the total), so it's not catastrophic. Also, I am sure the price will be up again. As for adoption of Bitcoin as money, I've also seen reports that Bitcoin isn't particularly popular in El Salvador, even though it's legal tender, and that many just used their wallets once, to get the initial $30 worth of BTC. There's still time, and things can change. As long as Bitcoin adoption doesn't lead to major adverse effects, there's no reason not to adopt it.

Bobrox

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Not any failure when El Savador adopting bitcoin as legal currency transaction because as bitcoin investor or trader got their dreaming come true have country want to make bitcoin for legal currency transaction. How ever when El Savador announced bitcoin as legal currency transaction make bitcoin touched all time high price.

Could be different viewed and bitcoin price without announced by El Savadaor for legal currency transaction and bitcoin can't make new all time high price, although with nowadays bitcoin have drop drastically from all time high price always have chance for bitcoin back to higher price. El Savador still have new thing how to make bitcoin back to higher price again for few months later.

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Quote from: minairia3 on September 09, 2022, 08:45:49 AM

I live in a country where bitcoin is banned and not legal yet, so I really admire countries that accept bitcoin and especially El Salvador that made bitcoin the first legal tender. I wish that one day my country or many countries around the world can follow El Salvador to bring bitcoin into mass adoption.

I am a supporter of El Salvador, I am quite annoyed that many people are laughing at El Salvador. Those people are even investing in bitcoin, they mock El Salvador as a terrible failure, but they don't know themselves they couldn't get better.

Many people think that way, but they never want to learn to understand. Indeed, so far Bitcoin is still restricted, even the IMF and the World Bank have banned it. But there is something special about Bitcoin that is difficult to explain and they don't understand.
Currently as a crypto trader I strongly support El Salvador using Bitcoin. Every country has the right to make its decisions. Although they got the consequences of the decision, they were prepared. That's a risk, but in the end if Elsalvador succeeds it will be a pilot project for other countries. I'm sure.

Topic: Bitcoin and the failure of El Salvador (Read 496 times)