Topic: Bitcoin as P2P currency vs Bitcoin as an asset - page 3. (Read 540 times)

I do not see why Bitcoin would lose its adoption as a p2p currency. But as far as transactions go, the problem with ordinals needs to be solved before we start making long-term assumptions on which groups lose their rate of adoption. And while we have lightning, it is not yet as adopted as it might be someday. And it would not be a permanent solution to the ordinal parasites. Bitcoin works, but if we want to optimize Bitcoin then we need more long term thinking on solutions.

Bitcoin is the most important asset. And that is not going to be changing anytime soon.

I have also observed of recent that a lot of people see Bitcoin more from the angle of investment, the reason people who sell Bitcoin are demonized and made to appear like the enemies of Bitcoin. If you go through this forum, you will see that those who claim to have held Bitcoin are praised and respected far more than those who sold, even those who own businesses that accept Bitcoin are not exempted. I now begin to wonder if Bitcoin was created to be held in wallets or transacted in our day-to-day activities. I feel this psychological barrier is what all lovers of Bitcoin must come together to address so that people can feel proud to transact in Bitcoin as that is also a way of helping Bitcoin.

From the angle of investments and treating Bitcoin like an assets, I don't have a problem with that as I'm also doing that. It is just an opportunity to keep what one feel will appreciate with time. There is nothing wrong with that but it should not be seen as all there is to Bitcoin. The beauty of Bitcoin is in it being traded.

The growth bitcoin has achieved in a short period of time has made people prioritize bitcoin mainly as an asset rather than a P2P currency. Maybe the global adoption and increase in acceptance would change the mentality of people and let them prioritize bitcoin as a currency over investment.

Just think of the price of an X product priced at $100 when the price of Bitcoin is $45000, and the same product will be priced at $100 when the price of Bitcoin is $40000. This makes a difference in the amount spent on the same product at different times. This means two people buying it at different times using bitcoin could've paid a higher and a lower price for the same product. People don't accept it, and for this reason, it is often considered an investment asset.

Making Bitcoin a P2P currency and making Bitcoin an investment are both now done by people all over the world in countries that don't ban Bitcoin.
Because it can be used for these two purposes, Bitcoin is a favorite coin, even though Bitcoin users as a transaction tool experience a few obstacles due to high transaction fees.

Because I couldn't do shopping, I made Bitcoin an investment aspect. If I want to make Bitcoin a currency for transactions, I have to convert it into fiat currency.

up until now, only few merchants are accepting btc payment method or better yet, not many btc holders are willing to pay using their btc. not only because the fees are quite expensive these days but they feel they want to hold it for investment purposes. maybe, they will be motivated to use btc for payment if the volatility is not so much and the fees are quite cheaper. but til then, i don't think many crypto users will be using this top currency just to pay for their online purchases.

so even if you found a merchant or coffee shop accepting btc, do you think you will be willing to pay using your btc incurring a hefty amount of fee and won't know when will your transaction be confirmed? that's the bottleneck we are still facing up to this day. so there's no doubt, many holders are still on the side of having btc as an asset and not just as a currency to be used for everyday purchases.

I would love to be able to make purchases through Bitcoin, but it's just not possible, because there aren't sellers willing to accept it as payment method. Maybe the problem isn't with Bitcoin holders. It's not about them not willing to spend their coins and being only focused in long term profits by holding BTC as an asset. The problem is that they don't have where to spend their coins. There aren't sales offers and opportunities in large scale.

Maybe in some big urban centers at the main capitals of the world it's already a possibility, but for Bitcoin enthusiasts living at smaller regions and poorly developed countries it's hard to find someone else who is also an adopter of the digital currency. It would be great to buy a car or an apartment directly through P2P Bitcoin transaction, but hardly ever you will find the car or place you are looking for with this payment option. In fact, you should consider yourself lucky enough if you are able to find at least one seller accepting BTC as payment anywhere in your area.

It ends that we have no choice, besides using Bitcoin exclusively as an asset.

Anyhow we intend to use our Bitcoin is all left to us. The Bitcoin peer to peer adoption is still currently going on but due to the high fee that is involve in transacting units of Bitcoin, maybe investors and traders are now looking out for other coins too they can use for peer to peer transactions due to the high fee and transaction time for a single confirmation if the network fee is not upto what could push and make the Bitcoin to be confirmed immediately. Those who have Bitcoin in their personal wallets not on exchanges are still finding it hard for them to transfer due to the high network fee everyone is facing which is annoying.

'P2P mainly' seems to be the least popular position (after not being sure, but that's not really a position). That might be upsetting to some, considering what Bitcoin was supposed to become, according to its creator. But being an asset isn't a bad thing per se, and we need to look at this matter from a practical perspective. In practice, Bitcoin isn't adopted enough to properly function as a currency. If someone wants to go out of their way to do it, it can be possible to use Bitcoin like that in some regions, but that's not how money usually functions. It's actually inspiring that the majority maintain that it's equally a currency and an asset, considering how challenging using Bitcoin as a currency is.

I know that Bitcoin was originally created for p2p purposes, to guarantee privacy between two people's transaction that will not involve any third party, but today clearly that original p2p plan has been overtaken, it's now an investment asset. Greater number of people that holds Bitcoin are for investment purposes, I believe that it's a very small number of people that still holds it for p2p purposes. I believe that the reason why people don't use Bitcoin to pay for goods and services is that it's adoption has not increased where everybody has a wallet address and the issue of high transaction fees is a discouraging factor, unless it's between two people which can not drive adoption. But far more people are buying Bitcoin and holding it for investment, they'll accumulate it to sale when price pumps and during bull runs, others holds Bitcoin for trading.

Yes, we are the ones who turned bitcoin into an asset, but even though it is an asset, an investment, it has never lost its peer-to-peer currency feature. It may not be recognized and become a commonly used currency, but also no one can prohibit us from using it as a P2P currency if we need to use it and no one can remove the P2P feature of bitcoin.

Most of us here are bitcoin investors, very few people use it as currency, but that doesn't mean no one uses it as currency. Right on this forum, I don't remember each person's exact name, but sometimes I still meet some people who are using and spreading bitcoin as a currency, not everyone considers it an investment like us. Therefore, in my opinion, no matter how much bitcoin value increases and is recognized by the government as a commodity, asset...it will never lose its P2P feature.

You don't have to spend all your BTC on goods and services, but you can spend a portion of it, this is why bitcoiners separate their long term BTC holdings, from funds they want to use for spending on the go. The easy way to do it is to create an online wallet and always keep < or exactly $100 in it, if it gets exhausted, you can always top it up again, this will be your wallet for spending BTC on things you can spend it on.
BTC is a decentralized network that is not controlled by anyone, how can you stop its value from rising. Take note that there is nothing wrong in the level that BTC has risen to and its growth is also going to continue.
BTC is still p2p electronic cash.

Indeed, most people if you asked them what is their purpose in joining and learning crypto is for profit, and if you asked them about Bitcoin they would just literally see it as an possibility to make a profit by taking advantage of its volatility. Some wouldn't even mentioned about the P2P cause mainly the thing that they want for Bitcoin is the profit they could get. It is not that sad or big deal cause it has already given a lot of people the opportunity to change their lives in a good way or bad way. It is still has the possibility for Bitcoin to be used an fiat in the future.

I totally agree with you on this but I think there is still enough fait value in the world that can be added to bitcoin. If I'm not mistaken bitcoin price increase when more people invest in it. Cause that's what value is all about, when bitcoin was created it didn't have any value until it was used for a transaction. So I think as long as people keep on investing in bitcoin it would continue to grow and for this action to continue it would still have a little volatility in it. So i guess bitcoin at its peak would be when every wordly value is now attached to bitcoin, no fait in any country and bitcoin as the only means of transaction, and this should be when bitcoin stabilises. And that would be a long wait for change, and the process might be far slower than we think.
I think p2p usage can happen even before then, if the congestion issue would be solved, bitcoin would be used more for  p2p transactions since transaction fees would be more stable and affordable in all market conditions. And I think people are still very used to fait currency as a means of daily transactions for several reasons which we cant deny to.
And these could be
1. The average person still has little knowledge about bitcoin, neither do they understand any other form of transaction that is different from the traditional financial services.
2. What people continue to hear about everyday is how bitcoin continues to improve in price, and this impacts them to only see bitcoin as an investment, not as a means of transaction. To check this our enter your stress or even on this forum people discuss more about bitcoin price more than its usability or utility, we are the once still spreading the idea of bitcoin as an investment opportunity than its utility and safety it brings.
3. Bitcoin still sounds so foreign to my mom who is just in her late 30's and same for many other of you here. If I were to teach her, she would ask me questions on same topic for days before she can understand it. So I think more companies should make a more user friendly interface for old users like my ma. And she can rely on etfs is she wants to invest.
With only this three points I think I've made It clear that bitcoin is still a long way from p2p adoption and this process would happen more slowly as people continues to buy the idea of bitcoin as a means for daily transactions with affordable gas fees for each transaction.

From my perspective I think many people still view bitcoin as an investment asset because of the way the price continues to appreciate, which was not the main plan of its creator satoshi, satoshi envisioned a world where transactions can take place with relying on trusted third parties like banks that totally control transactions. But the reality of this has not yet become fully alive cause the cost of daily transactions with bitcoin is still very high cause of its gas fees so most bitcoiniers have not fully adopted bitcoin as a means for daily transactions with regard to the p2p.
Bitcoin can still achieve this p2p vision if gas fees becomes as affordable as bank transfer charges, so for now to keep the bitcoin dream burning and to  continue our mass adoption race, let bitcoin do what it can and let's benefit from it how we can. Until a new technologies comes in that can help to reduce gas fee price and help users have a better p2p transactions experience.

I want to ask you one thing, what is your purpose in joining this market? Is it for profit or are you looking for your privacy? Many people are always upset and criticize others for turning bitcoin into an investment, an asset rather than turning it into a P2P currency. But the funny thing is that they are the same people who are discussing bitcoin price every day and profit is the main reason why they are involved in bitcoin. You are sad that bitcoin cannot become a peer-to-peer currency, but if bitcoin no longer brings you profit and is only used like fiat, will you continue to stick with bitcoin?

The price of bitcoin is too big already and I don't think that we're ever going back to the P2P bitcoin because we just think that it's too precious. It's a sad thing that this happened to bitcoin but it's our fault this has come to this, we saw that value is going to be a thing and so we didn't stop trying to pump bitcoin so we can build our own wealth. I do hope that we will come back to P2P one but right now, I do think that bitcoin's price is just too high as I've said already.

The over reliance on Bitcoin as a P2P currency than an investment asset is totally dependent on the view of the conventional finance system as a failed one.

Who wouldn't want to enjoy the benefits that goes with Bitcoin as compared to the limitations of the regular fiat system.

i think slowly overtime bitcoin is switching from an investment asset to a P2P currency. in my opinion, this is going to happen very slowly over many years. when bitcoin was first released in 2009, no one really used it at all. bitcoin prices were less than a cent, basically nothing.  the market cap was so low. this made it so easy for bitcoin to literally pump and 100x - 1000x in price in a very short period of time. obviously only a very slim percentage of people gained from the huge spikes bitcoin did in the early days, because bitcoin wasn't well known, not a lot of people were invested into bitcoin. slowly overtime, more and more people get invested into bitcoin, the market cap grows over time, and it becomes harder for those huge bitcoin 100x spikes. flash forward to now, bitcoin is still very volatile, but now it doesn't go absolutely crazy like it used to in the old days.  depending on where we are in the 4 year cycle, it can 3-4x now, in maybe a year or so, nothing like it used to, obviously this is due to the market cap so massive now this market cap cant be multiplied as easy as it used to. as time keeps going by, i think we still will have bull markets and bear markets, but i think as bitcoin has been doing over time, it will continue to stable out slowly but surely. because bitcoin is stabling out, thats why I believe bitcoin is ever so slowly switching from an investment asset to a P2P currency.

edit: I forgot to emphasize how slow this process of switching from an asset to a p2p currency will happen. yes it can be used as a p2p currency now, and it always has been used as a p2p currency, but it is very volatile still. this is the one downside of it being used as a p2p currency now. its still very much like an asset.  it will become a better p2p currency and less of an asset as volatility slowly decreases over years maybe even decades. theyre interchangeable really, but slowly but surely it will become better use as a p2p then an asset slowly over years.

Bitcoin can be both asset and currency. I think majority of newbies who buy bitcoin do so with the intention to have an investment. Only people who have been in the crypto space will be interested in using bitcoin as a currency. This discussion has been going on for years, hopefully a poll will settle it. If enough people participate in the poll, we can use the stats form the poll as reference later on.
If bitcoin according to Satoshi is digital money then why call it investment.
Bitcoin IS an asset. Do you think it's bad?

For me, Bitcoin is a free world, depending on how it is used, it will be applied that way. Meaning that for some people using it as a currency to convert, exchange, send/receive, pay... it will be a p2p currency and vice versa will be stored as an asset. Bitcoin has flexibility for any usage idea. That would be good for bitcoin, bitcoin should not be imposed as a framework.