Topic: Bitcoin Banknotes - page 5. (Read 15259 times)

It means bitcoin successfully pass one more stem towards the bright future.

It is just anotheed simple example of bitcoins development and popularity.

Its good news for cryptocurrency. I think adoption on crypto to real world will become more common in the future. Cryptocurrency is the future our economic world and it will be growing more bigger than now.

Your previous reply had been there sometime and nobody came along to agree with you.

I fail to see how any of that is relevant to the product in question. Tell me why someone is more likely to be scammed buying one of these than they are a Casascius coin on eBay? These aren't even collectable so there isn't even a reason someone would attempt to buy one of those other than from physical outlet. Your example of someone selling the card to 3 people just doesn't make any sense.


Any wallet is handled by humans. Scams can happen in any form. Describing that as a flaw is ludicrous. The fact that they can be physically checked makes them more not less secure.

Well, yes... You have, indeed, stated that, but as we see time and time again, this industry is rife with scams and, on the flip side of the coin, a massive education problem. So, essentially, you're saying that, should someone not understand the "system" as well as you, too bad, so sad it's their fault. Frankly, it's that attitude that hurts Crypto.

On that note, the flaw with these "Bank notes" is that they are still handled by human beings, so there will always be the human element to take into account and, as I'm sure you're aware, throw a stick in the wind these days, you're going to hit a scam or someone trying to take advantage of a lack of education. This is a problem; a very serious one. Until the community is properly educated(just as they are in Fiat currency; only after centuries of use and support from those who brought it to them in the first place and those who are experts with it), Crypto will probably remain to be seen as something to be avoided by the main stream because of all of these issues. If all you did was Google the sheer amount of scams over the centuries following the introduction of banknotes, you would see the reason I'm posing these questions to this forum; in the hope that there is someone who has more knowledge than me, to help educate me and quell my fears.

I'm not trying to play a game of who's more right, I'm simply putting forward an opinion that, as a large amount of this rest in the hands of humans, it is still open to dodgy dealings; that is all. You obviously have your opinion and it's one of: if you partake you better be ready to be scammed... Really? Surely education on Crypto is a better solution, rather than just a nihilistic view. Would you say this to one of your family members if they got scammed because they didn't know better and you, being an expert, didn't explain how it works to them?

So, in conclusion, I am looking for a constructive conversation, not a one sided view on the matter. I understand you have your view and opinions, but they aren't the gospel, and I hope you see that...

Unlikely. I already explained that if anyone gets scammed like that then they only have themselves to blame. Who would send an upfront payment for something which you need physical access to be able it contains Bitcoin? Unless it was done with a trusted trading partner or with escrow it just wouldn't happen to anyone who know what they are doing.

In Singapore, issued the first "smart banknotes" bitcoin. The developers of Tangem presented bills of 0.01 and 0.05 BTC denominations. They can be used as an alternative means of payment and physically transferred from hand to hand. In fact, these are miniature hardware cold wallets into which the S3D350A chip, created by Samsung Semiconductor, is integrated. Developers call their product a "noncopable cold wallet."

Does anyone else have the same feeling about this as me...?

We rely on the high and growing NFC smartphone penetration. Offline balance check will be available through trusted attestation

great. It makes a lot of sense for Argentinians to put their fiat to bitcoin and other crypto as the local economics is facing some serious struggle and there is a chance of massive dip in coming months.

Although printed on paper money, I think it's more worth mentioning as a member card that can only be used in one place
The initial expectation of bitcoin creation is that it can be used as a global currency, and bitcoin should not be tied to institutions why you make it more complicated by organizing it by signing up for membership before you can use bitcoin directly.

That's where the analogy with banknotes actually does work. You wouldn't send payment to someone in exchange for a promise of cash in the post. You would have to do it face to face to make sure the banknotes are real. The same goes for these, you need to spend them face to face so the receiver can verify they are real and funded.

I'm just playing Devil's advocate here, because there's surely a way for people to get scammed. It's been happening for as long has humans have been around. For example, if someone sells one of these wallets online and 3 people reply and say they want to buy it, the seller can say, "I need the payment before couriering it to you." The seller can then collect multiple payments for the same wallet, and send fake ones to the buyers. If that happens, the only way for the buyer to know if he/she was scammed would be to check the package when it arrives, but by that time it would be too late as he/she has already paid money to the scammer. I'm not saying that this WILL happen, I'm just asking, wouldn't the potential for it to happen open up in this case?

The smartphone app verifies the card is real and funded.

This is what happens when you don't read the thread.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.36355447

I'm not saying that the system and technology used is inherently flawed, and I understand the use of the NFC chips, however, taking into account human nature, wouldn't the hardware wallet open up potential avenues for fraud where the fraudulent 'card' or hardware wallet looks legitimate at face-value, and people only realize that they've been defrauded when they go and try to initialize the wallet and it does not work?

I would suggest reading through this thread. There's a lot of information from one of the co-owners of the company that makes them.

In short, there is only one physical wallet so how could you physically give it to 3 people?

The hardware wallet is contained in an NFC chip on the card that is encrypted. The balance can be verified using an NFC enabled smartphone. That's why you don't need trust, you can verify the card you have been given is funded.

Ok. I understand now.

With that understanding though, I refer back to my point of fraud. What, then would stop someone from selling the wallet to 3 different people where only one will be able to use it?

The use of the word 'notes' is what is causing your misunderstanding. Replace 'notes' with 'cheap disposable hardware wallets' and it might make more sense. There's still a blockchain transaction needed to fund the device and another one needed to spend from the device. You wouldn't want to hand over your Ledger Nano S to someone else to spend the coin stored on it because it is too expensive but that is the same principle. These are just cheap enough to pass around if you want. Or if you want to think of it in the same way as the physical Bitcoins although they have really become collectables rather than useful to spend.

After reading the whitepaper from the link that you've provided and reading the original article that the tread was based on, this is what I've come up with:

The purpose of Bitcoin was to eliminate the need for a third party which would entail a certain level of trust.

"What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust, allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted third party." - According to the link you've provided.

Also, with banknotes, there is the possibility of fraud, due to the transaction not going through the Blockchain, as Satoshi originally intended.

"...there is a broader cost in the loss of ability to make non-reversible payments for non-reversible services. With the possibility of reversal, the need for trust spreads." - Also from the link you've provided.

From what the original article, from Coingape, states: https://coingape.com/bitcoin-banknotes-ready-to-replace-traditional-currency/
"The notes will be on sale at the Megafash Suntec City store. The aim is to mass produce the physical notes of bitcoin in millions by the end of 2018."
it will go directly against the original whitepaper, where the electronic method of transactions was essentially vetted by the Blockchain in order to eliminate fraud.

Perhaps we have both misunderstood, but this is what my understanding is after having read through both the article as well as the whitepaper.

Thank you for that information and the link. I will definitely go and have a look at this and see where I've misunderstood.