Topic: Bitcoin Banknotes - page 9. (Read 15259 times)

yes you are right bank notes currently no longer need to be used when you use bitcoin you can include notes in bitcoin transactions, not only that all bitcoin transcations are also recorded in big snagat notes and open all can see it.

There is nothing new in this idea. If my mind serves me right, a few years ago there was a start-up called BitNotes (or something to that line). I don't know what's become of them but their idea was pretty much the same. They went for issuing paper bitcoins, so-called bitnotes, which were expected to facilitate the exchange of goods and services with Bitcoin. As much as this idea of creating paper bitcoins is loathed and hated by almost everyone in the community (because it effectively turns Bitcoin into a fiat currency), there is some rationale behind it. Technically, as long as paper bitcoins are backed up by the real ones which exist on the blockchain and there is a way to check every paper bitcoin for its blockchain counterpart, I see no big deal in that, especially if it could actually contribute to Bitcoin adoption in the real world.

But the problem is that there is no reliable and verifiable way to establish this connection, and whoever comes up with this idea and carries it out in practice, they will be tempted to issue more bitnotes than there are actual bitcoins. It had happened before with gold depositary receipts issued by the American banks in the 19th century as with the US dollars issued by the Fed after WWII (surprise, surprise), and is likely going to happen again with Bitcoin all over again.

The $20 is for the special limited edition set. It says "Fully reusable, unlimited times". So that is good value compared to Ledger and Trezor even as a one coin wallet.

Like I said if the limited use ones end up being a few cents each then that'll really work as a banknote substitute.

Well, this spells nothing good for other expensive hardware wallets, like Ledger and Trezor.    On their website it shows something that says, "Remaining Signatures : 999" ....so they have a limited use.

The $20 per card is still cheaper than most of the hardware wallets out there, but very expensive for people in 3rd world countries.  

They are selling a limited edition Pioneer Kit of 5x 0.05 and 5x 0.01 unfunded cards for $199. When I pointed out above that only makes them suitable as a hardware wallet I got this answer.


If that means they eventually end up being a few cents each then they could be used like bank notes and people would just hand them over. If they end up being more expensive then they'll be a handy credit card sized hardware wallet you can just stick in your wallet with your cash and cards.

---

OK, very interesting. I'll keep watching to see what they end up being. 

This will be very helpful not only to normal people but specially for people who have bitcoin and travel a lot. You will be able to convert your bitcoin to fiat easily.

This will be favorable to us.

Also perhaps other people would be curious on bitcoin because of the new technology.

We're working with distributors around the world to figure out the right feature set and volume pricing. Aspects of reusability can be restricted in the basic variants meant primarily for physical circulation and fixed denominations.

The ones in the Pioneer Kit are more like full featured hardware Bitcoin wallets, only more secure, simpler to use, and much cheaper.

Yes, I found a video on Youtube now, explaining it.

What I cannot understand is, if these cards are expensive... why would you want to discard them... once you used them? I cannot see on their site what the cost of the cards is. Is it supposed to be disposable or is this more like a cheap hardware wallet? If this is like a cheap hardware wallet, then I will buy some of them.... the hardware wallets are expensive and the firmware updates is a pain in the ass.

How will governments react towards this? Is this not like "printing" your own currency?

No, you can spend the value held on the card. You need an NFC able phone and the app can then verify the balance and spend it. They are reusable as you can top them up. Have a look at tangem.com they look pretty cool if the price becomes reasonable.

very good! this is exactly what is needed for cryptocurrencies to get closer to normal people. Get the services closer to them so they can get bitcoin and alts easily and get immersed in this cool tech

So in theory, the cards always represent the value of BTC stored on the card, but you can never use it for payment... if the value is lower or higher than the amount stored on the card. The bitcoins never leave the card, right? So this is more like a collectible than a currency and a store of value. < It can be a currency, but then you have to pay the exact amount, stored on the card?>

Or... Do you use it as a hardware wallet, where the coins are continuously funded and used as a currency, but the content of the card is accessed and changed via a NFC phone?

I am still trying to figure our how you going to use this.    

Thanks for that explanation. Can you expand on what the additional features are and how the basic version will differ? Also what ballpark price range are you talking about, say per 1000 units?

Tangem Notes are completely trustless and decentralized beyond the multi–party security audit — in fact more trustless than any other current way to store Bitcoin. The chip is a tiny standalone HSM designed entirely for mission critical security applications and is completely air–gapped with just a tiny API to access it. You don't need anyone to guarantee their redemption as you can redeem Tangem Notes yourself with an NFC phone using an open protocol — or our reference apps (iOS open–sourced, Android to be open–sourced).


Tangem Notes compare to mobile wallets same way fiat banknotes compare to mobile banking apps. Except mobile banking actually has banks behind them, while mobile wallets are relatively insecure. For most people without a background in engineering and security Tangem Notes are by far the safest way to store Bitcoin right now.


We want entrepreneurs, financial organizations, and governments to use the base Tangem technology for thousands of different tokens, currencies, and applications. It looks like Bitcoin will be the flagship for at least a long while.


The price tag is just for a limited edition Pioneer Kit for people who want it now, while we're rolling out normal distribution channels around the world, which takes time. The Pioneer Kit also comes with additional features which makes it useful as a highly secure hardware wallet. For retailers the cost of a basic Tangem Note is designed to nicely fit within their margins.


The chip and firmware inside every Tangem Note is designed to be secure not just against hacking, but against sporadic failures. The secure element should survive magnetic fields and pulses as well as cosmic rays better than most other electronics. It is rated for at least 40 years in operation, but is expected to last much longer than that. We apply extreme mechanical and RF testing, targeting CQM and other standards compliance.

In short, value stored on Tangem Notes should be orders of magnitude safer than that on exchanges, cloud wallets, hot wallets, cold wallets, or paper.

I do not think that Bitcoin can become a paper currency, many believe that the development of virtual currencies is uneven, and many social states are experiencing economic conflicts. The development of virtual currency such as Bitcoin meet.

I agree with bitcoin ATM, a few months ago Singapore sold a lot of ATM bitcoin, and it was all run out. because the popularity of bitcoin is already high. then a stupid statement if anyone says that bitcoin will die.

but I do not agree if bitcoin has a physical shape, such as paper or coins. this is a bad innovation, bitcoin will lose its character. so bitcoin is not a digital currency again.

I think, they have a conspiracy to eliminate bitcoin in an interesting way.

I think that if they improve their idea a bit, they can change this into Bitcoin cards you can make payments with, much more secure than the smartphone, clearly, and you don't have to get your Trezor with you.
On the other hand, compatible readers need to also be deployed in shops, I guess.

However, the idea is interesting, but it's too expensive. And backup option is a must.

From what I've read on their website there is no backup so if it fails or you lose it then you cannot get the private key to your funds any other way. This is what makes them different to other hardware wallets, the original owner has no access to the funds, only physical access give that.
This might be usable like a banknote if they were priced at a few cents rather than $20.

This is like handing over your trezor or ledger nano S
I know it's easier to handle for a person who is not so tech savvy, but what in the other topic of this I've already asked the founder: what happens if I have this banknote (card) and by the time when I want to hand it over, the secure chip fails inside? I know that the coins will still sitting on the blockchain but how I can move them if I can't make a backup?
If I lose it, then it's the same like I lose a real banknote, because it's my fault, but if there is a hardware fault, that's not the same...

The fact that the private key always remains secret in the chip means that they seem to be made for handing them over like you would a bank note.

They aren't really notes but cards:



The problem I see with that is that they are selling them for $199 for a pack of 10 unloaded cards. So who is going to want to hand over a device worth $20 when they spend $100?

They look like a pretty cool hardware wallet but I couldn't consider them bank notes.

If it requires an NFC connection to chech the current balance, why the banknote is different from a mobile wallet? It's only that if you hand it over, it does not require a transaction to wait for? If the lightning network starts there will be no (or very short) time needed to the LN transactions to complete.
Maybe the only thing which is different is the anonymity if someone hands over the banknote and this has no track in any database...

You do a beta test with bitcoin and after you can start to work with national currencies?