Topic: Bitcoin becomes 100% unregulated in Japan!!! (Read 3976 times)
Oh wow this is awesome thank for this information.
and now, let's see if the bitcoin rises again.
yay we have support from japan!
yay we have support from japan!
http://www.coindesk.com/tokyo-court-bitcoin-not-subject-to-ownership-2/
This is quite awesome. Set up exchanges, set up payment processors, set up whatever you want with Bitcoin in Japan. It is not covered under the law.
Quote
Judge Masumi Kurachi ruled that, due to their intangible nature and reliance on third parties, bitcoins cannot be covered under existing law.
This is quite awesome. Set up exchanges, set up payment processors, set up whatever you want with Bitcoin in Japan. It is not covered under the law.
I don't know if I would call this a big victory. This is one judge saying that a bitcoin case won't be recognized by the court. In my opinion, it's slap in the face to bitcoin. I don't think it sets any sort of precedent as far as bitcoin businesses being sanctioned by the government. Perhaps the opposite.
imho its what most bitcoiner want: self-responsibility
personally i like that judgement. but you are right in saying that its only one judge.
most countries do have laws which forbid hacking which includes liability for any damage.
http://www.coindesk.com/tokyo-court-bitcoin-not-subject-to-ownership-2/
This is quite awesome. Set up exchanges, set up payment processors, set up whatever you want with Bitcoin in Japan. It is not covered under the law.
Quote
Judge Masumi Kurachi ruled that, due to their intangible nature and reliance on third parties, bitcoins cannot be covered under existing law.
This is quite awesome. Set up exchanges, set up payment processors, set up whatever you want with Bitcoin in Japan. It is not covered under the law.
I don't know if I would call this a big victory. This is one judge saying that a bitcoin case won't be recognized by the court. In my opinion, it's slap in the face to bitcoin. I don't think it sets any sort of precedent as far as bitcoin businesses being sanctioned by the government. Perhaps the opposite.
http://www.coindesk.com/tokyo-court-bitcoin-not-subject-to-ownership-2/
This is quite awesome. Set up exchanges, set up payment processors, set up whatever you want with Bitcoin in Japan. It is not covered under the law.
Quote
Judge Masumi Kurachi ruled that, due to their intangible nature and reliance on third parties, bitcoins cannot be covered under existing law.
This is quite awesome. Set up exchanges, set up payment processors, set up whatever you want with Bitcoin in Japan. It is not covered under the law.
I think that this is not a good choice and good thing for bitcoin. Because in this way bitcoin can be subject of speculation and misuse of it. The best it would be to be regulated and to be under law equally to the other subjects under law. Equally to yen. In this way can be more trust on it even from the simple people.
http://www.coindesk.com/tokyo-court-bitcoin-not-subject-to-ownership-2/
This is quite awesome. Set up exchanges, set up payment processors, set up whatever you want with Bitcoin in Japan. It is not covered under the law.
Quote
Judge Masumi Kurachi ruled that, due to their intangible nature and reliance on third parties, bitcoins cannot be covered under existing law.
This is quite awesome. Set up exchanges, set up payment processors, set up whatever you want with Bitcoin in Japan. It is not covered under the law.
I think that this is not a good choice and good thing for bitcoin. Because in this way bitcoin can be subject of speculation and misuse of it. The best it would be to be regulated and to be under law equally to the other subjects under law. Equally to yen. In this way can be more trust on it even from the simple people.
http://www.coindesk.com/tokyo-court-bitcoin-not-subject-to-ownership-2/
This is quite awesome. Set up exchanges, set up payment processors, set up whatever you want with Bitcoin in Japan. It is not covered under the law.
Quote
Judge Masumi Kurachi ruled that, due to their intangible nature and reliance on third parties, bitcoins cannot be covered under existing law.
This is quite awesome. Set up exchanges, set up payment processors, set up whatever you want with Bitcoin in Japan. It is not covered under the law.
I think that this is not a good choice and good thing for bitcoin. Because in this way bitcoin can be subject of speculation and misuse of it. The best it would be to be regulated and to be under law equally to the other subjects under law. Equally to yen. In this way can be more trust on it even from the simple people.
What do you not trust about your bitcoin transactions that you believe the government could improve?
wow it was incredible japan
but, do it all without the law, it can be made as transaksi negative
but, do it all without the law, it can be made as transaksi negative
Mt. Gox, once the dominant exchange for bitcoin trading, on Friday said more than $470 million of the virtual currency vanished from its digital coffers, kicking into high gear a search for the missing money by victims and cybersleuths.
Bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox said it was filing for bankruptcy protection and that 750,000 of its customers' bitcoins had been lost. Is the end of the crypto-currency or merely growing pains? Columbia Business School assistant professor Moshe Cohen discusses on MoneyBeat.
Acting alone and in groups, the people stepped up their efforts after Mt. Gox filed for bankruptcy protection in Japan and confirmed rumors it had lost almost 750,000 of its customers' bitcoins, as well as roughly 100,000 of its own.
Mt. Gox Chief Executive Mark Karpelès said technical issues had opened the way for fraudulent withdrawals, though he didn't provide details.
"There was some weakness in the system, and the bitcoins have disappeared. I apologize for causing trouble," Mr. Karpelès said at a packed news conference at a Tokyo courthouse after the bankruptcy filing.
The disappearance underscores the risks of currencies that exist only online and aren't backed by a central bank. Mt. Gox wasn't overseen by national regulators, so there is no entity to step in and back investors' deposits.
BITS AND PIECES
View a a rough timeline of the Bitcoin evolution.
ENLARGE
It wasn't clear whether or how the missing bitcoins would be found. Bitcoin's underlying software code, known in developer circles as "the protocol," is believed to keep track of every transaction using a special marker that can be traced via an online ledger.
Advertisement
Unlike cash, which might be difficult to track if it is stolen from a bank vault and then widely dispersed, bitcoin transactions are logged in the ledger, which essentially can be accessed by anyone with a computer.
Some computing experts believed any hackers might be capable of covering the tracks of a potential computer break-in. But if each bitcoin has a marker, it would make it more difficult for thieves to try to convert a big stash into another currency, in the same way it would be difficult for an art thief to pawn off a pilfered Matisse painting quickly.
MORE
Fortress: We Bought Bitcoin
Suit Filed Over Lost Bitcoin
Those factors are giving hope to the wave of Mt. Gox victims and treasure hunters who have fanned out in search of the missing bitcoins. The virtual currency that disappeared represents nearly 7% of all bitcoins in circulation.
Devon Weller, a 40-year-old freelance Web developer in Nashville who said he had a "small amount" of bitcoins stashed at Mt. Gox, tossed aside his regular work Friday morning to start looking for missing bitcoins. He tapped into the public ledger from his home office and started following the trail of large transactions.
ENLARGE
WSJD is the Journal's home for tech news, analysis and product reviews.
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"I haven't gotten very far, but it's one of those things that is going to eat away at me," said Mr. Weller.
The exchange's bankruptcy filing capped a tumultuous stretch for the five-year virtual currency. One bitcoin traded at about $549 late Friday, based on the CoinDesk price index of two leading exchanges. The value of a bitcoin started 2013 at about $13, soared above $1,100 in December and has since lost about half its value.
The price swings have hit some investors hard. Fortress Investment Group LLC on Friday recorded an unrealized loss of $3.7 million from its purchase of $20 million worth of bitcoins last year. The asset-management firm held $16.3 million worth of bitcoins at the end of 2013, according to a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.
Mt. Gox halted customer withdrawals three weeks ago, saying a "bug in the bitcoin software" allowed some users to alter the ID on transactions and fraudulently claim that bitcoin transfers hadn't been sent. Other exchanges also had problems but were able to provide patches so activity could resume.
Mt. Gox didn't recover, and it shut down operations Tuesday.
The defunct exchange is the target of an investigation by the U.S. attorney's office for the Southern District of New York. The scope of the probe isn't clear, but prosecutors have subpoenaed the company, ordering it to preserve certain documents, according to a person familiar with the matter.
Mt. Gox also faces lawsuits from customers. On Thursday, a customer who claims to have $25,000 worth of bitcoins tied up at Mt. Gox filed a lawsuit seeking class-action status against the exchange. Gregory Greene, who filed the claim with an Illinois District Court, is seeking damages, an injunction, restitution and other remedies.
The claim alleges that Mt. Gox, its holding company and Mr. Karpelès are guilty of consumer fraud by engaging in "unlawful, deceptive, and unfair conduct that is immoral, unscrupulous, and causes substantial injury to consumers." It claims Mt. Gox falsely represented to its customers that it would "protect their bitcoins and fiat currency and safely and quickly allow them to buy, sell, trade, or withdraw the same at any time."
A covered Bitcoin sign is hung outside a Bitcoin cafe which was scheduled to open in March at the building housing the company operating the Mt. Gox Bitcoin exchange in Tokyo, Japan. ENLARGE
A covered Bitcoin sign is hung outside a Bitcoin cafe which was scheduled to open in March at the building housing the company operating the Mt. Gox Bitcoin exchange in Tokyo, Japan. BLOOMBERG NEWS
The company didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.
Because Mt. Gox was unregulated, customers might not have much recourse unless they hunt down missing bitcoins on their own. By contrast, customers of MF Global Inc., a regulated brokerage, have nearly been made whole after they lost an estimated $1.6 billion in its 2011 collapse. U.S. customers who traded on U.S. exchanges have received about 98% of their funds, while U.S. customers who traded on foreign exchanges have received about 78%.
Federal regulators have encouraged bitcoin companies to follow money-laundering rules, but beyond that have generally been silent on whether they have legal authority to regulate companies like Mt. Gox in the future or set up rules that would protect bitcoin users. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and the Federal Trade Commission have held meetings in recent weeks to study the issue.
Market regulators including the SEC are still evaluating whether bitcoin falls under their jurisdiction. Agencies that oversee banks and payment systems are monitoring bitcoin, but Federal Reserve Chairwoman Janet Yellen said this past week that the Fed has no authority to regulate the virtual currency as long as it "doesn't touch" banks the Fed oversees.
Bitcoin enthusiasts are teaming up to pursue the cybertrail of the missing cash. Among them is Charles Shrem, a prominent bitcoin advocate and entrepreneur who was arrested in January and charged with money-laundering in connection with his bitcoin company.
Mr. Shrem, who worked with four others, said they might have discovered 90,000 of the missing bitcoins that still appear to be in the Mt. Gox coffers, despite the exchange's claim that the money is gone. He added, however, that it is a working theory and still speculative.
"We did it for the community," said Mr. Shrem, who is under house arrest and has pleaded not guilty.
ENLARGE
Gavin Andresen, chief scientist for the Bitcoin Foundation, a trade group, isn't hopeful that amateur sleuthing will turn up the missing bitcoins. The best results, he says, might come from a far more traditional source.
"I wouldn't be surprised, if there is a theft involved here, that eventually law enforcement does figure out, using the subpoena powers, where the bitcoins went," he said.
But Adam B. Levine, who worked with Mr. Shrem, said he is optimistic. "There's lots of threads to follow, and if you start pulling on one thread, it exposes another, and eventually you start building a map," he said.
Mr. Levine, a writer at Letstalkbitcoin.com and a self-taught bitcoin sleuth, said his team formed its plan during "a 36-hour Skype call."
He was supposed to appear at a conference on March 6 but has decided to cancel his appearance.
"I should been preparing to give my speeches," he said, "but this thing is taking all day."
—Michael Casey, Neelabh Chaturvedi and Ryan Tracy contributed to this article.
Write to Eleanor Warnock at [email protected], Takashi Mochizuki at [email protected] and Alexander Martin at [email protected]
Bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox said it was filing for bankruptcy protection and that 750,000 of its customers' bitcoins had been lost. Is the end of the crypto-currency or merely growing pains? Columbia Business School assistant professor Moshe Cohen discusses on MoneyBeat.
Acting alone and in groups, the people stepped up their efforts after Mt. Gox filed for bankruptcy protection in Japan and confirmed rumors it had lost almost 750,000 of its customers' bitcoins, as well as roughly 100,000 of its own.
Mt. Gox Chief Executive Mark Karpelès said technical issues had opened the way for fraudulent withdrawals, though he didn't provide details.
"There was some weakness in the system, and the bitcoins have disappeared. I apologize for causing trouble," Mr. Karpelès said at a packed news conference at a Tokyo courthouse after the bankruptcy filing.
The disappearance underscores the risks of currencies that exist only online and aren't backed by a central bank. Mt. Gox wasn't overseen by national regulators, so there is no entity to step in and back investors' deposits.
BITS AND PIECES
View a a rough timeline of the Bitcoin evolution.
ENLARGE
It wasn't clear whether or how the missing bitcoins would be found. Bitcoin's underlying software code, known in developer circles as "the protocol," is believed to keep track of every transaction using a special marker that can be traced via an online ledger.
Advertisement
Unlike cash, which might be difficult to track if it is stolen from a bank vault and then widely dispersed, bitcoin transactions are logged in the ledger, which essentially can be accessed by anyone with a computer.
Some computing experts believed any hackers might be capable of covering the tracks of a potential computer break-in. But if each bitcoin has a marker, it would make it more difficult for thieves to try to convert a big stash into another currency, in the same way it would be difficult for an art thief to pawn off a pilfered Matisse painting quickly.
MORE
Fortress: We Bought Bitcoin
Suit Filed Over Lost Bitcoin
Those factors are giving hope to the wave of Mt. Gox victims and treasure hunters who have fanned out in search of the missing bitcoins. The virtual currency that disappeared represents nearly 7% of all bitcoins in circulation.
Devon Weller, a 40-year-old freelance Web developer in Nashville who said he had a "small amount" of bitcoins stashed at Mt. Gox, tossed aside his regular work Friday morning to start looking for missing bitcoins. He tapped into the public ledger from his home office and started following the trail of large transactions.
ENLARGE
WSJD is the Journal's home for tech news, analysis and product reviews.
Nude Webcams, Diet Drugs: The Facebook Ads Teens Aren't Supposed to See
Missing in Barcelona: Tech Innovation
After Apple, Tackling Poverty
The New Phone for Defense and Security: 'Boeing Black'
"I haven't gotten very far, but it's one of those things that is going to eat away at me," said Mr. Weller.
The exchange's bankruptcy filing capped a tumultuous stretch for the five-year virtual currency. One bitcoin traded at about $549 late Friday, based on the CoinDesk price index of two leading exchanges. The value of a bitcoin started 2013 at about $13, soared above $1,100 in December and has since lost about half its value.
The price swings have hit some investors hard. Fortress Investment Group LLC on Friday recorded an unrealized loss of $3.7 million from its purchase of $20 million worth of bitcoins last year. The asset-management firm held $16.3 million worth of bitcoins at the end of 2013, according to a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.
Mt. Gox halted customer withdrawals three weeks ago, saying a "bug in the bitcoin software" allowed some users to alter the ID on transactions and fraudulently claim that bitcoin transfers hadn't been sent. Other exchanges also had problems but were able to provide patches so activity could resume.
Mt. Gox didn't recover, and it shut down operations Tuesday.
The defunct exchange is the target of an investigation by the U.S. attorney's office for the Southern District of New York. The scope of the probe isn't clear, but prosecutors have subpoenaed the company, ordering it to preserve certain documents, according to a person familiar with the matter.
Mt. Gox also faces lawsuits from customers. On Thursday, a customer who claims to have $25,000 worth of bitcoins tied up at Mt. Gox filed a lawsuit seeking class-action status against the exchange. Gregory Greene, who filed the claim with an Illinois District Court, is seeking damages, an injunction, restitution and other remedies.
The claim alleges that Mt. Gox, its holding company and Mr. Karpelès are guilty of consumer fraud by engaging in "unlawful, deceptive, and unfair conduct that is immoral, unscrupulous, and causes substantial injury to consumers." It claims Mt. Gox falsely represented to its customers that it would "protect their bitcoins and fiat currency and safely and quickly allow them to buy, sell, trade, or withdraw the same at any time."
A covered Bitcoin sign is hung outside a Bitcoin cafe which was scheduled to open in March at the building housing the company operating the Mt. Gox Bitcoin exchange in Tokyo, Japan. ENLARGE
A covered Bitcoin sign is hung outside a Bitcoin cafe which was scheduled to open in March at the building housing the company operating the Mt. Gox Bitcoin exchange in Tokyo, Japan. BLOOMBERG NEWS
The company didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.
Because Mt. Gox was unregulated, customers might not have much recourse unless they hunt down missing bitcoins on their own. By contrast, customers of MF Global Inc., a regulated brokerage, have nearly been made whole after they lost an estimated $1.6 billion in its 2011 collapse. U.S. customers who traded on U.S. exchanges have received about 98% of their funds, while U.S. customers who traded on foreign exchanges have received about 78%.
Federal regulators have encouraged bitcoin companies to follow money-laundering rules, but beyond that have generally been silent on whether they have legal authority to regulate companies like Mt. Gox in the future or set up rules that would protect bitcoin users. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and the Federal Trade Commission have held meetings in recent weeks to study the issue.
Market regulators including the SEC are still evaluating whether bitcoin falls under their jurisdiction. Agencies that oversee banks and payment systems are monitoring bitcoin, but Federal Reserve Chairwoman Janet Yellen said this past week that the Fed has no authority to regulate the virtual currency as long as it "doesn't touch" banks the Fed oversees.
Bitcoin enthusiasts are teaming up to pursue the cybertrail of the missing cash. Among them is Charles Shrem, a prominent bitcoin advocate and entrepreneur who was arrested in January and charged with money-laundering in connection with his bitcoin company.
Mr. Shrem, who worked with four others, said they might have discovered 90,000 of the missing bitcoins that still appear to be in the Mt. Gox coffers, despite the exchange's claim that the money is gone. He added, however, that it is a working theory and still speculative.
"We did it for the community," said Mr. Shrem, who is under house arrest and has pleaded not guilty.
ENLARGE
Gavin Andresen, chief scientist for the Bitcoin Foundation, a trade group, isn't hopeful that amateur sleuthing will turn up the missing bitcoins. The best results, he says, might come from a far more traditional source.
"I wouldn't be surprised, if there is a theft involved here, that eventually law enforcement does figure out, using the subpoena powers, where the bitcoins went," he said.
But Adam B. Levine, who worked with Mr. Shrem, said he is optimistic. "There's lots of threads to follow, and if you start pulling on one thread, it exposes another, and eventually you start building a map," he said.
Mr. Levine, a writer at Letstalkbitcoin.com and a self-taught bitcoin sleuth, said his team formed its plan during "a 36-hour Skype call."
He was supposed to appear at a conference on March 6 but has decided to cancel his appearance.
"I should been preparing to give my speeches," he said, "but this thing is taking all day."
—Michael Casey, Neelabh Chaturvedi and Ryan Tracy contributed to this article.
Write to Eleanor Warnock at [email protected], Takashi Mochizuki at [email protected] and Alexander Martin at [email protected]
the fact that does not do taxes its very irregular to become japan accepted they need measures further.
tux using the stolen btc to bribe the judge?
That could be a possibility, if he is truly the one who stole it.
Has anyone seen any of those coins move?
I haven't been following the case much.
Imagine what happens when he makes this offer to the judge and he doesn't like it ....
Then he just says he didn't offer him anything since it's intangible.
What counts in this case is the japanese judge who could feel beeing disrespected and not how Marc could defend himself afterwards. In reality Marc can only bow and shut the fuck up. Trying to bribe a japanese judge in his situation is the dumbest thing he could try.
so for them it's like exchanging seashells or something? well now i know where to go, if things turn too bad in Europe about bitcoin, but at least for us they promised the exemption of vat for bitcoin...
And is something I can take. If law does not acknowledge bitcoin as something to stand for then I want it to stop charging ANY bitcoin tax. Bitcoin should be totally unregulated, no support from government = no taxation and free market without boundaries.
tux using the stolen btc to bribe the judge?
That could be a possibility, if he is truly the one who stole it.
Has anyone seen any of those coins move?
I haven't been following the case much.
Imagine what happens when he makes this offer to the judge and he doesn't like it ....
Then he just says he didn't offer him anything since it's intangible.
lol Japan always out in front of the technology waves
tux using the stolen btc to bribe the judge?
That could be a possibility, if he is truly the one who stole it.
Has anyone seen any of those coins move?
I haven't been following the case much.
Imagine what happens when he makes this offer to the judge and he doesn't like it ....
I think the judge is correct in that bitcoins aren't property. If you think about it bitcoins don't actually exist , its just entries in a ledger . How do you prove ownership on a entry in a spreadsheet. If I give my private keys to 10 other people does that mean we all joinly own the BTC, what makes it more my vs theirs? We all have equal access. Bitcoins are going to change the way people view property and its going to be a source of debate for many years.
Same could be said about your bank account.
Remember this.... MtGox was operarting as an exchange business. It does not matter if the ownership of btc can be proven or not, just like you can't prove a particular shares/stock is owned by you, the stock exchange still promise you a share of a company. Thats a contract.
does this means japan is going to become the hub of illegal usage of bitcoins next ? 
I think the judge is correct in that bitcoins aren't property. If you think about it bitcoins don't actually exist , its just entries in a ledger . How do you prove ownership on a entry in a spreadsheet. If I give my private keys to 10 other people does that mean we all joinly own the BTC, what makes it more my vs theirs? We all have equal access. Bitcoins are going to change the way people view property and its going to be a source of debate for many years.
How is the IRL merchant adoption in japan? I wish It was big so I could make a visit to japan, always wanted to visit that place, and I wouldn't need to pay for fees to convert the money, I could pay directly with btc using the phone.
Since the collapse, various legal proceedings have kicked-off. These proceedings will likely result in important precedents being made in regards to Bitcoin, which is still a gray area as far as the law is concerned. Any decisions made now could have a big impact on cryptocurrency in the future, setting precedents for the emerging area of digital currency law
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