Bitcoin becomes 100% unregulated in Japan!!! - page 3.

AgentofCoin

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Quote from: Elwar on August 06, 2015, 07:48:00 AM

http://www.coindesk.com/tokyo-court-bitcoin-not-subject-to-ownership-2/

Quote

Judge Masumi Kurachi ruled that, due to their intangible nature and reliance on third parties, bitcoins cannot be covered under existing law.

This is quite awesome. Set up exchanges, set up payment processors, set up whatever you want with Bitcoin in Japan. It is not covered under the law.

I think it is covered. It will fall under assets/properties as a catchall.
This Judge just messed up and made an incorrect decision that will be easily overturned.
The Judge just got confused with the Bitcoin System and the Plaintiff(s) didn't properly argue.

unamis76

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Elwar

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Quote from: alani123 on August 06, 2015, 10:41:01 AM

Quote from: Elwar on August 06, 2015, 08:25:34 AM

Quote from: alani123 on August 06, 2015, 07:59:53 AM

So with no ownership over bitcoin, I'd expect cryptocurrencies to never be widespread in Japan. Then again, we don't know hoe valid this order is and how seriously is going to be regarded.

The only thing you need to own a bitcoin is to hold the private key. The government cannot do anything to change that basic fact.

But then again, what happens if you can't pursue third party services for stealing your bitcoins, overcharging etc. I don't see Japan being a good place to start a bitcoin related business after this.

Use escrow services, multi-sig, all sorts of technology that make laws meaningless...

unusualfacts30

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Quote from: Elwar on August 06, 2015, 07:48:00 AM

http://www.coindesk.com/tokyo-court-bitcoin-not-subject-to-ownership-2/

Quote

Judge Masumi Kurachi ruled that, due to their intangible nature and reliance on third parties, bitcoins cannot be covered under existing law.

This is quite awesome. Set up exchanges, set up payment processors, set up whatever you want with Bitcoin in Japan. It is not covered under the law.

Soon world will follow Japan.

alani123

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Quote from: Elwar on August 06, 2015, 08:25:34 AM

Quote from: alani123 on August 06, 2015, 07:59:53 AM

So with no ownership over bitcoin, I'd expect cryptocurrencies to never be widespread in Japan. Then again, we don't know hoe valid this order is and how seriously is going to be regarded.

The only thing you need to own a bitcoin is to hold the private key. The government cannot do anything to change that basic fact.

But then again, what happens if you can't pursue third party services for stealing your bitcoins, overcharging etc. I don't see Japan being a good place to start a bitcoin related business after this.

Bitcoinpro

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Quote from: Elwar on August 06, 2015, 09:30:35 AM

Can't really nitpick the wording too much since most likely the original wording is in Japanese.

plus the fact a banker probably wrote wat he said

and also told him how high to jump

but ill give him the benefit of the doubt Cheesy

Elwar

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Can't really nitpick the wording too much since most likely the original wording is in Japanese.

Bitcoinpro

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if fiat is tangible crypto is super tangible so not sure if stupid or trolling

johnny211

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I wonder what this means for Bitcoin claims in the MTGox liquidation.

Denker

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Reliance on third party? What is that guy talking about? Bitcoin does not need any 3rd party validation.
So wild wild west in Japan regarding Bitcon?!
And what about Mt.Gox? What influence will this decision have?

lahm-44

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well that's pritty cool but I think its also unregulated in india too.because no one really knows about it till now..I mean to say many peoples in india don't belive in this..system and are not even trying it because most of them thinks its scam or just a common trick which will just waste their time

Globb0

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Does it not say "current laws" ie we might need some emergency new laws to cover it. Leverage, leverage, Fear, Leverage

futureofbitcoin

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Quote from: Elwar on August 06, 2015, 08:40:47 AM

Quote from: futureofbitcoin on August 06, 2015, 08:38:02 AM

Does this mean that you can freely open bitcoin casinos in japan, a country where gambling is strictly illegal except yakuza pachinko parlors?

Hmm, gambling with something that they see as having no value...I guess it would be allowed. Don't quote me on that though.

Yeah, that's why pachinko parlors are allowed. YOu're gambling with pachinko balls, which called be exchanged back for real money.

You can only get little trinkets, which you then go to the back alley and exchange it for money with the yakuza.

maokoto

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Freedom is good, but has its downsides too. Most people are not very adventurous with their money, I think that in Japan they are even more conservative, so bitcoin adoption is likely to suffer due to this.

Although it could be just the other way around, you never know!

var53

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Quote from: grouper fish on August 06, 2015, 08:33:49 AM

does this mean anything for the mtgox trial?

If Bitcoin cannot be covered under the existing law then Mark Karpeles cannot be prosecuted for stealing all those Bitcoins under the existing law. He can only be prosecuted for embezzling the fiat from customer's accounts. I'm eager to hear what they will charge him with. If he doesn't get charged for stealing Bitcoins then there will be a huge influx of Bitcoin exchange hackers into Japan.

ebliever

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The judge seems (in my ignorant opinion) to be making a convoluted argument to arrive at a predetermined conclusion hostile to bitcoin. For instance, ownership of real estate is dependent on 3rd parties that record and store the deed for legal purposes. If those deeds became electronic (set into a blockchain as Honduras is doing) does that mean in his view that real estate would not be property because the deeds are intangible and dependent on 3rd parties? What about ownership of written works in an electronic format? Authors, musicians and others are creating property that has real value every day, that is both physically intangible (recorded digitally) and dependent on other parties (the whole internet ecosystem and everything necessary for it) for their value and usability.

As Elwar adroitly points out, this doesn't shut the door on bitcoin, it just creates anarchy (with no legal recourse for those who are wronged under Japanese jurisdiction). I doubt it will stand for long though, as it is just too contrary to empirical realty.

Elwar

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Quote from: futureofbitcoin on August 06, 2015, 08:38:02 AM

Does this mean that you can freely open bitcoin casinos in japan, a country where gambling is strictly illegal except yakuza pachinko parlors?

Hmm, gambling with something that they see as having no value...I guess it would be allowed. Don't quote me on that though.

futureofbitcoin

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Does this mean that you can freely open bitcoin casinos in japan, a country where gambling is strictly illegal except yakuza pachinko parlors?

Elwar

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Quote from: Panadacoin on August 06, 2015, 08:34:37 AM

So anyone can do anything with bitcoin in Japan and not get arrested? Is this what this is saying? May need top stop using or not use any service/site hosted or out of Japan if it is related to Bitcoin.

If you're relying on the government to protect you when it comes to using Bitcoin, you're doing it wrong.

Panadacoin

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So anyone can do anything with bitcoin in Japan and not get arrested? Is this what this is saying? May need top stop using or not use any service/site hosted or out of Japan if it is related to Bitcoin.

Topic: Bitcoin becomes 100% unregulated in Japan!!! - page 3. (Read 3976 times)