Bitcoin-Central, first exchange licensed to operate with a bank. This is HUGE - page 21.

marcus_of_augustus

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Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: Rassah on December 07, 2012, 10:13:25 PM

Quote from: gweedo on December 07, 2012, 09:55:31 PM

How do you know Gox's bank cares? Remember the bank is only seeing the withdrawals and deposits, they not seeing the bitcoins coming in and out, that are used to represent those dollars.

They're not just seeing withdrawals and deposits, they are seeing $20,000,000 a month worth of withdrawals and deposits. With that amount of money they know they are likely under the scrutiny of every regulatory body out there. It's likely why MtGox has had to resort to KYC and AML regulations as well, like a real bank.

And running graph theory analysis on the blockchain. Inputting the now known users-bitcoin-address pairs supplied by Gox, BitPay, Paymium (whoever) as fixed points makes such graph theory analysis much more successful .... just saying, the more data points that go in the better the analysis (i.e. the weaker the privacy of ALL bitcoin transactions become).

davout

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Quote from: ?? on ??

no no no, fix the Credit Mutuel proper naming, not to be confused

Right

davout

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Quote from: Meizirkki on December 08, 2012, 03:49:03 PM

Fix the topic title please?

https://bitcoin-central.net/s/aqoba-partnership

Done, changed "as" to "with".

Meizirkki

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Fix the topic title please?

https://bitcoin-central.net/s/aqoba-partnership

davout

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Quote from: Rotsor on December 08, 2012, 03:01:09 PM

It does sound like you do. Not sure how you can possibly not know.

Well, MtGox got kicked out of France with the CIC v. MACARAJA case in which it was argued that MACARAJA (the French company representing TIBANNE, the company behind mtgox) needed a license to operate a service where fiat was held on behalf of third-parties. That's all I know.

They then had an account in the UK at Barclays, which got closed by the bank a couple of months ago, and they now have an account in Poland which as of today is apparently still up and running.

Quote from: Rotsor on December 08, 2012, 03:01:09 PM

Well, common sense tells me that Mt.Gox could not have possibly survived for so long with such a large turnover without securing itself a warm hole in the law (in a good way). Your claim of being the first "legal" exchange contradicts this conclusion so common sense does not work here!

Moving bank accounts periodically can also be a strategy.

Rotsor

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Quote from: davout on December 08, 2012, 02:18:53 PM

Quote from: Rotsor on December 08, 2012, 01:43:11 PM

Are you saying that Mt.Gox' operation is criminal in nature?

I don't know, am I ?

It does sound like you do. Not sure how you can possibly not know.

Quote

I don't know, use your own common sense

Well, common sense tells me that Mt.Gox could not have possibly survived for so long with such a large turnover without securing itself a warm hole in the law (in a good way). Your claim of being the first "legal" exchange contradicts this conclusion so common sense does not work here!

davout

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Quote from: Rotsor on December 08, 2012, 01:43:11 PM

Are you saying that Mt.Gox' operation is criminal in nature?

I don't know, am I ?

Quote from: Rotsor on December 08, 2012, 01:43:11 PM

Why do they go to great lengths to ensure AML compliance by requiring all sorts of documents then?

Just because you sit down when you pee doesn't make you a woman.

Quote from: Rotsor on December 08, 2012, 01:43:11 PM

If not, are you forgetting to qualify your statement with something like "in europe"? Even then, there is a number of European exchanges. Are all of them (except yours) violating law?

I don't know, use your own common sense, do you think any company can, without any sort of license whatsoever engage in the business of banking (collecting fiat deposits and storing them on behalf of third-parties) ?

But hey, what's not legal is not necessarily immoral. The opposite is true, during WWII is was legal to kill Jews because they were Jews, does that make it moral ?

Rotsor

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Quote from: davout on December 08, 2012, 11:28:43 AM

The fact remains that we're setting the MASSIVE precedent of operating a Bitcoin exchange within the current regulatory framework.
We're setting a precedent where operating a Bitcoin exchange can be done in broad daylight.

Are you saying that Mt.Gox' operation is criminal in nature? Why do they go to great lengths to ensure AML compliance by requiring all sorts of documents then?

If not, are you forgetting to qualify your statement with something like "in europe"? Even then, there is a number of European exchanges. Are all of them (except yours) violating law?

davout

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Quote from: giszmo on December 08, 2012, 12:31:06 PM

I wish your PSP and your bank would consider this worthwhile enough to say a word on it on their sites, too Wink

It's the week-end so a press-release from Aqoba will have to wait until next week.
Don't count on Credit Mutuel Arkéa to say anything though.

giszmo

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WalletScrutiny.com

I wish your PSP and your bank would consider this worthwhile enough to say a word on it on their sites, too Wink

cho

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Boar with me

Quote from: gusti on December 08, 2012, 12:17:11 PM

Quote from: davout on December 08, 2012, 11:28:43 AM

Dear all,
There's been an overwhelming response to our announcement.
Unfortunately there seems to be a misunderstanding in the head of some journalist that basically quoted that

Maybe you need to recreate the title of this thread, something like "Bitcoin-Central partners with a bank".

True. Or even better, "Bitcoin-Central parterns with PSP to offer PSP services".
Trying to hype the big news is understandable, but it's not helping with the "misunderstanding".

gusti

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Quote from: davout on December 08, 2012, 11:28:43 AM

Dear all,
There's been an overwhelming response to our announcement.
Unfortunately there seems to be a misunderstanding in the head of some journalist that basically quoted that

Maybe you need to recreate the title of this thread, something like "Bitcoin-Central partners with a bank".

Rassah

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Quote from: Rob E on December 08, 2012, 04:27:40 AM

And by my gathering you own a substantial amoumt of bitcoin.. ... my guess is you hardly can tie your own shoe laces let alone work.

If he "can't tie his shoelaces, let alone work," then how do you suppose he got his "substantial amount of Bitcoin?" Who gave it to him?

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: davout on December 08, 2012, 11:28:43 AM

And to all the people that are scared, the reason you're scared is probably because you do not fully understand that Bitcoin doesn't care whether it is regulated, it doesn't care how you use it. It's math, and math does not care. Have more faith or learn math, everything's gonna be allright.

The same old song.

davout

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Dear all,

There's been an overwhelming response to our announcement.

Unfortunately there seems to be a misunderstanding in the head of some journalist that basically quoted that

Quote

Bitcoin-Central gets a PSP license

Quote

Bitcoin-Central becomes a bank

Quote

France regulates Bitcoin

This is of course factually incorrect :

Neither Bitcoin-Central nor Paymium got a PSP license, we partnered with one, which costs less but has the same result.
No-one became a bank, obviously becoming a bank has unbelievable overhead and requires millions and millions in capital.
If France actually regulated Bitcoin itself it would be an even bigger day for Bitcoin, whether good or bad I'm unsure, but still much bigger than this announcement.

We have published what could be called a press-release here.

The fact remains that we're setting the MASSIVE precedent of operating a Bitcoin exchange within the current regulatory framework.
We're setting a precedent where operating a Bitcoin exchange can be done in broad daylight.

And yes it's risky, as I was told :

Quote from: MP

you are swimming in sharky waters.

FUCK YES, I SENSE SHARK FEAR AND FELT LIKE SOUP ANYWAY.

EDIT : And to all the people that are scared, the reason you're scared is probably because you do not fully understand that Bitcoin doesn't care whether it is regulated, it doesn't care how you use it. It's math, and math does not care. Have more faith or learn math, everything's gonna be allright.

notme

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Quote from: Rob E on December 08, 2012, 06:58:24 AM

whats beyond pathetic is that on these here forums many anonymous members are active.. isnt this funny as soon as theres a buck to be made they go silent or go YYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHHHHHH.. and throw their hand held moralistic ideals aside into something more " favourable". Money.

What is pathetic is your self-righteous bitching.

I have a job where I get paid in fiat. I have a decent chunk of savings that has been liberated from the fiat system by buying bitcoins. Every paycheck I convert a good portion of the USD I receive to BTC. The rest I use to pay bills and buy gas and food since those establishments don't accept BTC.

What this partnership enables (for Europeans at least) is to simplify that process to the point where I could have my direct deposit automatically converted to BTC and then have it converted back instantly when I need to eat or pay a bill. I am currently keeping a buffer is USD for these items only because it is too slow to move the money between BTC and USD.

The grocery store isn't going to accept BTC any time soon, and certainly not before there are enough bitcoiners. If this service provided the same features for USD as for EUR, I would use it and increase my bitcoin usage. This would also mean less revenue for the banks I'm currently using.

If bitcoin is worth anything, why are you so scared? If it is so fragile, does it really deserve it's current valuation? Thankfully, I think it is far more resilient than it seems you believe.

becoin

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Quote from: BlackBison on December 08, 2012, 07:04:17 AM

It is more like the US breaking away from Europe to be independent, then immediately trading and investing with 'the enemy'.

Sure. I doubt though if the War of Independence is behind or in front of us and who were/are the loyalists?

MPOE-PR

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Quote from: BlackBison on December 08, 2012, 07:04:17 AM

Not really. It is more like the US breaking away from Europe to be independent, then immediately trading and investing with 'the enemy'. Both sides benefit from this arrangement but particularly it allowed the US over time to become number 1 due to its superior fundamentals.

Notably, many smart and wealthy British and European elites saw great opportunities to invest in the US because they saw the potential and they sure as hell weren't going to miss out on it.

If bitcoin or another cryptocurrency truly is the strongest contender I am sure there will be a similar migration from the 'old system' as they realise bitcoin is as uncontrollable as the US was Grin

Your word to God's ear.

Ignore@YourPeril

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An aversion to the current system of banking is understandable due to the havoc it has wrought on society. Bitcoin can be an alternative, but there is still the issue of making the transition.

If bitcoin really is a better form of money than fiat cash, the transition away from traditional banking will have so much of a momentum that banking licenses only will be relevant in a transitional phase.

Pure bitcoin banking would better be envisioned as a kind of deposit box solution for raspberry PI´s: A hot wallet kept on the Raspberry, where the bank only provides the network access and the power socket. And you could also provide the locker with your own EMP solution for self-destruction of any hard drive inside, if anyone tried to tamper with it.

BlackBison

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Quote from: mrvision on December 07, 2012, 09:11:04 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

It's kind of like a bunch of slaves breaking out and then running straight back because they were so brainwashed they didn't even recognize freedom.

nice

Not really. It is more like the US breaking away from Europe to be independent, then immediately trading and investing with 'the enemy'. Both sides benefit from this arrangement but particularly it allowed the US over time to become number 1 due to its superior fundamentals.

Notably, many smart and wealthy British and European elites saw great opportunities to invest in the US because they saw the potential and they sure as hell weren't going to miss out on it.

If bitcoin or another cryptocurrency truly is the strongest contender I am sure there will be a similar migration from the 'old system' as they realise bitcoin is as uncontrollable as the US was Grin

Topic: Bitcoin-Central, first exchange licensed to operate with a bank. This is HUGE - page 21. (Read 191895 times)