I am still socialist, in the European sense, despite being into bitcoin for a couple of years now.
I still think that central regulations are needed to oversee essential services - healthcare, education, justice, military, utilities. However finance and trade I do not necessarily see as so "essential" - they are more means-to-and-end rather than essentials of life. So I am generally in favour of free trade and open markets. And of course decentralised currencies.
Topic: bitcoin changing my ideology from socialism to libertarianism! What about you? - page 28. (Read 33788 times)
August 22, 2014, 05:43:54 PM
August 22, 2014, 05:18:18 PM
Can you please explain how and what violence there is in a libertarian society?
A society of capitalists without any regulating government and system of laws to keep them from kidnapping and murdering each other for the sheer value of their internal organs? That's a nightmare world of the darkest order.
Hey wait a minute now.... You are a statist now? I thought you were the true anarchist here?
You are too funny man.
Why would they murder and kidnap people? Aren't you the one who said every human being has compassion built in and blabla...
Maybe it would help if actually believed in half the crap you post.
Libertarian/Objectivist thinking in no way precludes or forbids law and order.
What you described would be what most people call Anarchy.
What you described would be what most people call Anarchy.
Yes that's true I think the majority of "libertarians" are minarchists. And to be honest they make a lot more sense than socialists on the internet trying to act like they know everything.
August 22, 2014, 04:54:13 PM
Can you please explain how and what violence there is in a libertarian society?
A society of capitalists without any regulating government and system of laws to keep them from kidnapping and murdering each other for the sheer value of their internal organs? That's a nightmare world of the darkest order.
Not necessarily the case. Libertarians usually acknowledge the need of government for the sake of keeping the worst possible privations under control. Libertarians simply believe that it's not the government's business if Person X wants to buy a ladder, Person Y can sell a perfectly sturdy and well-built ladder for .05 BTC, and Person Z can sell a ladder that is going to fall apart when you put a significant amount of weight on it for .005 BTC.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
August 22, 2014, 04:43:36 PM
Can you please explain how and what violence there is in a libertarian society?
A society of capitalists without any regulating government and system of laws to keep them from kidnapping and murdering each other for the sheer value of their internal organs? That's a nightmare world of the darkest order.
Libertarian/Objectivist thinking in no way precludes or forbids law and order.
What you described would be what most people call Anarchy.
August 22, 2014, 04:31:20 PM
Can you please explain how and what violence there is in a libertarian society?
A society of capitalists without any regulating government and system of laws to keep them from kidnapping and murdering each other for the sheer value of their internal organs? That's a nightmare world of the darkest order.
August 22, 2014, 03:50:00 PM
Im a socialist now because im broke, if BTC goes to 10K and im a millonaire I will be a "Libertarianist" as the corrupted and selfish human being I am (and everyone else supporting libertarianism here not admiting this fact).
This is just wrong. Wealthy people create business and jobs. Look around you, how do you think the economy works?
Another clueless sheep parroting another pro-capitalism myth.
Your use of large fonts and bright colors: A sure sign that you've mostly only read about this stuff and have little to no real life experience pertaining to what you're talking about.
August 22, 2014, 03:37:21 PM
I am simply demonstrating that "libertarian" Americans are generally a very specific demographic group, with the hope that some of you will begin to think about why that might be.
Let me guess: people of other races and genders are being oppressed by the horrible capitalists?
In the context of capitalism, which depends totally on hierarchy-based systemic violence to exist, charity is unethical.
Charity in capitalism is akin to slavemasters who prolong and encourage the violence of slavery by treating their slaves well.
related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZBRJU6YLtY
Charity in capitalism is akin to slavemasters who prolong and encourage the violence of slavery by treating their slaves well.
related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZBRJU6YLtY
Violence and slaves? Do you think the Salvation Army practice this?
Can you please explain how and what violence there is in a libertarian society?
August 22, 2014, 02:47:31 PM
Im a socialist now because im broke, if BTC goes to 10K and im a millonaire I will be a "Libertarianist" as the corrupted and selfish human being I am (and everyone else supporting libertarianism here not admiting this fact).
This is just wrong. Wealthy people create business and jobs. Look around you, how do you think the economy works?
Another clueless sheep parroting another pro-capitalism myth.
Here, listen to a REAL successful capitalist explain how things actually work in a capitalist economy.
It seems like you have something against white young male Americans.
I have nothing against that demographic, and in fact I am in it.I am simply demonstrating that "libertarian" Americans are generally a very specific demographic group, with the hope that some of you will begin to think about why that might be.
And what is the difference between non-coercive wealth redistribution and private charities?
In the context of capitalism, which depends totally on hierarchy-based systemic violence to exist, charity is unethical. Charity in capitalism is akin to slavemasters who prolong and encourage the violence of slavery by treating their slaves well.
related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZBRJU6YLtY
August 22, 2014, 02:41:55 PM
Im a socialist now because im broke, if BTC goes to 10K and im a millonaire I will be a "Libertarianist" as the corrupted and selfish human being I am (and everyone else supporting libertarianism here not admiting this fact).
So what your saying is your hear to sellout out and get rich quick. You think you will be fine joining whichever group is most beneficial to your particular financial situation. I'm not sure which is worse the fact that you think this way. Or the fact that you have no shame in admitting it. I think their both plenty bad and you should really think about what kind of society we would be living in if everyone reacted the same way. I have know doubt your not the only person who thinks this way but what worries me is how many don't think this way.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
August 22, 2014, 02:19:39 PM
can you tell me the differences between libertarianism and objectivism
I am not authority on the subject, but google the terms, you will find some articles explaining the differences.
Clasically, philosophy has 5 branches: metaphysics, epistemology, ethics, politics, and esthetics.
Objectivism is a complete philosophy, with published material in all 5 branches.
Libertarianism is synonymous with the politics of Objectivism.
August 22, 2014, 01:41:55 PM
You should have a great and clean heart and a positive attitude, such transformation won't come 
P.S Gone through that phase earlier
P.S Gone through that phase earlier
August 22, 2014, 01:38:31 PM
Libertarianism is not incompatible with socialism. It is only incompatible with coercive socialism.
One of core values of socialism is that the rich have a moral obligation to redistribute some of their wealth to the poor. However, this redistribution doesn't have to happen by coercive means.
There are also non-coercive ways of achieving this: ostracism, shaming, persuasion, education, prizes, fame, social norms, "whuffie", etc
The crypto economy has the potential to formalize and automate these redistribution mechanisms (see Vitalik Buterin's SocialCoin idea), making them so effective that coercive, tax-based redistribution is no longer necessary.
One of core values of socialism is that the rich have a moral obligation to redistribute some of their wealth to the poor. However, this redistribution doesn't have to happen by coercive means.
There are also non-coercive ways of achieving this: ostracism, shaming, persuasion, education, prizes, fame, social norms, "whuffie", etc
The crypto economy has the potential to formalize and automate these redistribution mechanisms (see Vitalik Buterin's SocialCoin idea), making them so effective that coercive, tax-based redistribution is no longer necessary.
And what is the difference between non-coercive wealth redistribution and private charities?
I don't really see the point in implementing socialism if it's not coercive.
Why the need to call it socialism then? It's basically anarchy since you are allowed to do what you want with your wealth.
can you tell me the differences between libertarianism and objectivism
I can. American right-wing propaganda machine redefined the word "libertarian" for clueless Americans, to suit their agenda. Which is why the word "libertarian" only means what you think it means in America, and only to a small subset of heavily indoctrinated, mostly young and white, mostly males.
By the way, learn about your beloved Ayn Rand.
It seems like you have something against white young male Americans. Doesn't that go against your whole "world citizen" philosophy?
I could care less what race, gender and nationality a person has and so should you.
August 22, 2014, 12:47:45 PM
Im a socialist now because im broke, if BTC goes to 10K and im a millonaire I will be a "Libertarianist" as the corrupted and selfish human being I am (and everyone else supporting libertarianism here not admiting this fact).
This is just wrong. Wealthy people create business and jobs. Look around you, how do you think the economy works? The more wealthy people there are, the better off everyone is. Wages go up, tax revenue goes up, more jobs are created. The benefits of wealthy individuals is irreplaceable. Governments cannot replicate this ecosystem.
August 22, 2014, 12:21:23 PM
Im a socialist now because im broke, if BTC goes to 10K and im a millonaire I will be a "Libertarianist" as the corrupted and selfish human being I am (and everyone else supporting libertarianism here not admiting this fact).
+1..you will be a billionaire if btc reaches million each
August 22, 2014, 11:50:44 AM
Im a socialist now because im broke, if BTC goes to 10K and im a millonaire I will be a "Libertarianist" as the corrupted and selfish human being I am (and everyone else supporting libertarianism here not admiting this fact).
August 22, 2014, 11:38:28 AM
can you tell me the differences between libertarianism and objectivism
I am not authority on the subject, but google the terms, you will find some articles explaining the differences.
feeling lazy..
August 22, 2014, 11:24:05 AM
can you tell me the differences between libertarianism and objectivism
I am not authority on the subject, but google the terms, you will find some articles explaining the differences.
August 22, 2014, 11:21:41 AM
can you tell me the differences between libertarianism and objectivism
I can. American right-wing propaganda machine redefined the word "libertarian" for clueless Americans, to suit their agenda. Which is why the word "libertarian" only means what you think it means in America, and only to a small subset of heavily indoctrinated, mostly young and white, mostly males.
By the way, learn about your beloved Ayn Rand.
August 22, 2014, 11:14:56 AM
The problem with political ideologies, and that includes socialism and libertarianism, is that they base their arguments on ill-defined and messy terms and then at the end they pop out suspiciously clean and elegant conclusions.
This is precisely the problem, thank you for defining it.
The human language is incapable of capturing the complexities of the real world.
This is only the case as long as words have no definition or meaning. Until then no intellectual discussion is possible. When words have a clearly defined meaning, then arguments based on logic and reason become possible.
One of core values of socialism is that the rich have a moral obligation to redistribute some of their wealth to the poor.
For the sake of argument, I am going to call this "socialism", as you did. Some may disagree on what "socialism" means, but lets just agree on what the above sentence means.
Then there are people who support an ideology which does not share this view of "moral obligation". I called them "libertarians" in order to make a distinction between the two groups. Now people will say that's not what "libertarian" means. Fine. Ayn Rand called her philosophy Objectivism, so I will use that in place of Libertarianism, if that helps.
can you tell me the differences between libertarianism and objectivism
August 22, 2014, 11:06:06 AM
The problem with political ideologies, and that includes socialism and libertarianism, is that they base their arguments on ill-defined and messy terms and then at the end they pop out suspiciously clean and elegant conclusions.
This is precisely the problem, thank you for defining it.
The human language is incapable of capturing the complexities of the real world.
This is only the case as long as words have no definition or meaning. Until then no intellectual discussion is possible. When words have a clearly defined meaning, then arguments based on logic and reason become possible.
One of core values of socialism is that the rich have a moral obligation to redistribute some of their wealth to the poor.
For the sake of argument, I am going to call this "socialism", as you did. Some may disagree on what "socialism" means, but lets just agree on what the above sentence means.
Then there are people who support an ideology which does not share this view of "moral obligation". I called them "libertarians" in order to make a distinction between the two groups. Now people will say that's not what "libertarian" means. Fine. Ayn Rand called her philosophy Objectivism, so I will use that in place of Libertarianism, if that helps.
Jump to: