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Topic: Bitcoin Civil War - page 2. (Read 1109 times)

copper member
Activity: 2226
Merit: 915
White Russian
May 20, 2023, 02:01:54 AM
#95
thus no more junk spam = no more junk spam/..

as for you caring about moving ownership of junk spam.. it is never proven in blockchain data that junk belongs to  particular output.. never has.. thus its never been a NFT or a ownership thing..
the junk spam data has just always been dead data added to witness area and just sits there as dead data.
I think that I, you, the developers of the core, and any user of the bitcoin network, have the right to have a private opinion whether the pictures of frogs uploaded to the network are useless garbage or malicious spam, and even have the right to express this opinion publicly (but for the developers of the core, it is in their own interests best to be as careful as possible). But we can't ban it just because we don't like it. Because the owner of the picture with the frog will say that bitcoin is a scam, promised to keep its value and did not fulfill the promise - and we will have nothing to object to him. Who in their right mind would entrust their value to a network that, over time, could change the rules of the game and declare that value invalid garbage?

Well if there's a double spend bug and some users manage to double their Bitcoin holdings using the loophole, tell me, when the bug is fixed, can these users keep their doubled stashes?  Grin  You're trying to put it in such a way to make people think these NFT actually have value (which they don't). So how can they lose value if they don't have any value? And another thing: Bitcoin doesn't promise anything to anyone. It doesn't promise you will earn anything or even keep the money you invested. Theoretically, Bitcoin can go to 0 any moment. So, saying Bitcoin should keep some promise to the NFT owners is simply laughable.  Grin

And I really think that Bitcoin devs are not stopping this madness because somebody on the internet forum may think they're abusing their power or freedom is threatened but just because for some reason they don't consider it a threat to Bitcoin and it's health (yet).  
You seem to underestimate this weird meme economy and the size of the meme community. When Coinbase recently stated that Pepe frogs are “co-opted as a hate symbol by alt-right groups”, it caused such a flurry of indignation that they had to publicly apologize. Or take the same doge, this is initially an absolutely useless coin created as a joke and mined for change from litecoin, however, it has a huge army of fans, a stable place in the top 10 and a capitalization of $ 10 billion. I also find this strange, but I would be careful not to underestimate the power of a mob of idiots. Everyone has different value systems.

I think for 90% the general public, bitcoin is considered a kind of ponzi scheme, for them, bitcoin is garbage, and not just garbage, but environmentally harmful garbage that burns electricity in vain and does nothing useful, so moderate your meme snobbery, for most people lovers of meme tokens and bitcoin-maximalists are the same idiots.
legendary
Activity: 2422
Merit: 1191
Privacy Servers. Since 2009.
May 20, 2023, 01:28:57 AM
#94
thus no more junk spam = no more junk spam/..

as for you caring about moving ownership of junk spam.. it is never proven in blockchain data that junk belongs to  particular output.. never has.. thus its never been a NFT or a ownership thing..
the junk spam data has just always been dead data added to witness area and just sits there as dead data.
I think that I, you, the developers of the core, and any user of the bitcoin network, have the right to have a private opinion whether the pictures of frogs uploaded to the network are useless garbage or malicious spam, and even have the right to express this opinion publicly (but for the developers of the core, it is in their own interests best to be as careful as possible). But we can't ban it just because we don't like it. Because the owner of the picture with the frog will say that bitcoin is a scam, promised to keep its value and did not fulfill the promise - and we will have nothing to object to him. Who in their right mind would entrust their value to a network that, over time, could change the rules of the game and declare that value invalid garbage?

Well if there's a double spend bug and some users manage to double their Bitcoin holdings using the loophole, tell me, when the bug is fixed, can these users keep their doubled stashes?  Grin  You're trying to put it in such a way to make people think these NFT actually have value (which they don't). So how can they lose value if they don't have any value? And another thing: Bitcoin doesn't promise anything to anyone. It doesn't promise you will earn anything or even keep the money you invested. Theoretically, Bitcoin can go to 0 any moment. So, saying Bitcoin should keep some promise to the NFT owners is simply laughable.  Grin

And I really think that Bitcoin devs are not stopping this madness because somebody on the internet forum may think they're abusing their power or freedom is threatened but just because for some reason they don't consider it a threat to Bitcoin and it's health (yet). 
legendary
Activity: 3010
Merit: 8114
May 19, 2023, 10:46:21 PM
#93
franky1 is once again trying to push his misunderstanding of how Ordinals works as the truth. For whatever reason he is fixated on the notion that something must be done according to how he thinks it should be done in order for it to be valid. This seems to be a recurring theme throughout his history on the forum.

Are you saying that if I want to transfer ownership of a picture of a frog uploaded to the bitcoin blockchain, then I do not have to physically move this picture to the address of the new owner? That the change of ownership will not be reflected in the bitcoin blockchain in any way and the picture with the frog will remain at my address, where I originally uploaded it, and only the entry on some external site will change? If so, then this is really some kind of shit and I need to learn more about the brc-20 token protocol.

You can't transfer the picture, physically or digitally, as it is "inscribed" in immovable space (witness data). You've never needed to be able to transfer it in order for the Ordinals protocol to function. Ownership of the picture is assigned to a particular satoshi (otherwise known as an "ordinal") during the inscription process. When the satoshi is transferred to a new address, that address becomes the owner of the inscribed data per the rules of the protocol.

Insisting that the inscription data has to also be transferred for the Ordinals NFT system to function is ridiculous, and here's why:

If I make an NFT and upload the image for it to imgur or something, nobody needs to transfer that image to a new web address each time the NFT is transferred. Nobody has ever thought this had to happen for NFTs to work, so why would the same not apply to Ordinals?

The main two differences with Ordinals are:

1) Instead of using a traditional, external file host, it uses the bitcoin blockchain as the host.
2) Instead of using a tokenization protocol ala ERC721 or Counterparty, it uses a colored coins system, assigning properties to individual satoshis.

Its actually pretty simple to understand if you are willing to understand it.
copper member
Activity: 2226
Merit: 915
White Russian
May 19, 2023, 03:22:14 PM
#92
it is integrated into the block chain, and from an ordinary digital picture it becomes a unique digital entity, which cannot be copied, but can be transferred to another owner by making a new transaction. In this case, it is no longer garbage, regardless of the content of the picture and your attitude towards it. Well, or all bitcoin is garbage.

appearing in the blockchain is one thing... that is called DEAD DATA

however the "transfer" part. is not proven in blockdata.
because the data is in witness of the inputs signature association.. but it does not tag to which output deserves the transfer

there actually is a way to prove it. .. BUT they are not using a true proof of transfer. thus there is no transfer proof.

take this concept..

you write a contract on paper
the contract says Bill has 1000 sats
he pays 100 to Chris
he pays 400 to Dave
and 500 is lost to the contract notary for confirming the contract
its signed by bill and then bill puts a smiley face next to his signature

no where on the contract has the contract stated that the smiley face belongs to chris or dave or the notary

yet bill vocally says on his website(separate thing) that he thinks this month chris should own the smiley face
even if the smiley face is not put against chris's part of the contract. not is the smiley face written to be chrises within the contract itself

yes its on the piece of paper below the signature. but its not beside chrises part of the contract so no proof the smiley face belongs to chris specifically..
.. its just a random smiley face beside the signature that can mean anything to anyone

next month Bill can decide without changing the contract.. that actually dave owned it all along.
even though still. to all outsiders and rational people.. .. its just a random smiley face beside the signature that can mean anything to anyone
Are you saying that if I want to transfer ownership of a picture of a frog uploaded to the bitcoin blockchain, then I do not have to physically move this picture to the address of the new owner? That the change of ownership will not be reflected in the bitcoin blockchain in any way and the picture with the frog will remain at my address, where I originally uploaded it, and only the entry on some external site will change? If so, then this is really some kind of shit and I need to learn more about the brc-20 token protocol.
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
May 19, 2023, 03:08:23 PM
#91
it is integrated into the block chain, and from an ordinary digital picture it becomes a unique digital entity, which cannot be copied, but can be transferred to another owner by making a new transaction. In this case, it is no longer garbage, regardless of the content of the picture and your attitude towards it. Well, or all bitcoin is garbage.

appearing in the blockchain is one thing... that is called DEAD DATA

however the "transfer" part. is not proven in blockdata.
because the data is in witness of the inputs signature association.. but it does not tag to which output deserves the transfer

there actually is a way to prove it. .. BUT they are not using a true proof of transfer. thus there is no transfer proof.

take this concept..

you write a contract on paper
the contract says Bill has 1000 sats
he pays 100 to Chris
he pays 400 to Dave
and 500 is lost to the contract notary for confirming the contract
its signed by bill and then bill puts a smiley face next to his signature

no where on the contract has the contract stated that the smiley face belongs to chris or dave or the notary

yet bill vocally says on his website(separate thing) that he thinks this month chris should own the smiley face
even if the smiley face is not put against chris's part of the contract. not is the smiley face written to be chrises within the contract itself

yes its on the piece of paper below the signature. but its not beside chrises part of the contract so no proof the smiley face belongs to chris specifically..
.. its just a random smiley face beside the signature that can mean anything to anyone

next month Bill can decide without changing the contract.. that actually dave owned it all along.
even though still. to all outsiders and rational people.. .. its just a random smiley face beside the signature that can mean anything to anyone
copper member
Activity: 2226
Merit: 915
White Russian
May 19, 2023, 03:00:01 PM
#90
most of the "NFT market" and the fee .. is actually not real cost..

the NFT market is not real millions of people randomly buying junk.. its a small group colluding and collaborating together.. you can spot this becasue if it was random people. then the movements would be constant. however any simple analysis can see that the memes dropped nearly all precisely on the same day. and suddenly the new scam(brc) started a couple days later. which means unless millions of people just randomly all decided at the same time to throw memes off a cliff and jump onto BRC .. then thats a miracle. however instead it was a small group of the meme creators selling and posting fake priced and trading to themselves to cause a fake market hoping to dupe idiots..

luckily not many idiots bought into it which is why it died off a cliff so quick

now with the brc crap. its again not some massive market of millions of people. its a small group of idiot creators again spamming to each other to fake a market demand. ..

though these scams will die out when idiots wise up.. the problem remains.. keeping the security gates open just means new spam wil start. new rounds of different spam different junk different scams . all pretending to offer value. while all they are actually doing is bloating the blocks with dead useless data.
Perhaps our common problem and the reason for the misunderstanding is that neither you nor I have uploaded a single picture with frogs to the Bitcoin blockchain (I certainly have not). But if I understand correctly, the main difference from NFT on Ethereum is that it is not links to an external image that are loaded, but the image itself - it gets into the block, it is integrated into the block chain, and from an ordinary digital picture it becomes a unique digital entity, which cannot be copied, but can be transferred to another owner by making a new transaction. In this case, it is no longer garbage, regardless of the content of the picture and your attitude towards it. Well, or all bitcoin is garbage.
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
May 19, 2023, 02:47:18 PM
#89
most of the "[not]NFT market" and the fee .. is actually not real cost..

the NFT market is not real millions of people randomly buying junk.. its a small group colluding and collaborating together.. you can spot this becasue if it was random people. then the movements would be constant. however any simple analysis can see that the memes dropped nearly all precisely on the same day. and suddenly the new scam(brc) started a couple days later. which means unless millions of people just randomly all decided at the same time to throw memes off a cliff and jump onto BRC .. then thats a miracle. however instead it was a small group of the meme creators selling and posting fake priced and trading to themselves to cause a fake market hoping to dupe idiots..

luckily not many idiots bought into it which is why it died off a cliff so quick

now with the brc crap. its again not some massive market of millions of people. its a small group of idiot creators again spamming to each other to fake a market demand. ..

though these scams will die out when idiots wise up.. the problem remains.. keeping the security gates open just means new spam wil start. new rounds of different spam different junk different scams
{brc20}{brc721}{brc777}{brc1155} .. and whatever next may come to scam people whilst bloating the blockchain with nonsense data

. all pretending to offer value. while all they are actually doing is bloating the blocks with dead useless data.

im just glad not many suckers got suckered into handing money to these scammers. and as proven by how fast the memes dropped off in recent months. just shows how little did the scam work
copper member
Activity: 2226
Merit: 915
White Russian
May 19, 2023, 02:38:44 PM
#88
thus no more junk spam = no more junk spam/..

as for you caring about moving ownership of junk spam.. it is never proven in blockchain data that junk belongs to  particular output.. never has.. thus its never been a NFT or a ownership thing..
the junk spam data has just always been dead data added to witness area and just sits there as dead data.
I think that I, you, the developers of the core, and any user of the bitcoin network, have the right to have a private opinion whether the pictures of frogs uploaded to the network are useless garbage or malicious spam, and even have the right to express this opinion publicly (but for the developers of the core, it is in their own interests best to be as careful as possible). But we can't ban it just because we don't like it. Because the owner of the picture with the frog will say that bitcoin is a scam, promised to keep its value and did not fulfill the promise - and we will have nothing to object to him. Who in their right mind would entrust their value to a network that, over time, could change the rules of the game and declare that value invalid garbage?
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 2213
May 19, 2023, 02:36:39 PM
#87
Not trying to play the Devil's advocate here but I don't think the problem is ordinals itself, I think the problem is the fact that no one in their right minds (sorry devs) accounted for the scalability issue that expansion could bring when it does come. I'm pretty positive that even if ordinals didn't come around, some other enterprise that would challenge bitcoin's capabilities will, and sadly it wasn't able to pass the challenge.

I'm not one to blame devs either, but I think you're right here. Bitcoin was always going to be tested as it were, and ordinals is simply that first test (likely of many, so best get used to it). All it required was an incentive to inscribe data for high value on the blockchain, which was satisfied by the demand of those wanting these inscriptions such as Ordinals. Otherwise, without the financial incentive, this wouldn't be happening.

On the other hand, it's a little concerning how massive the repercussions of Ordinals' existence brought, you wouldn't see such high fees and wait times in other networks and projects

Actually, we saw exactly this with Ethereum in the past (and even recently/currently). During the NFT boom in 2021 the cost of transactions went through the roof, much higher than Bitcoin's fees have ever reached. It's not that comparable though as Ethereum isn't an immutable blockchain, but to say this doesn't happen in other networks simply isn't the case. The only relevance is that fees did eventually die down on ETH after the NFT boom, nothing to do with any upgrades either, and most importantly the high fees didn't "destroy" the network either like many naive participants suspect is possible for Bitcoin.

hero member
Activity: 1750
Merit: 589
May 19, 2023, 02:29:22 PM
#86
Not trying to play the Devil's advocate here but I don't think the problem is ordinals itself, I think the problem is the fact that no one in their right minds (sorry devs) accounted for the scalability issue that expansion could bring when it does come. I'm pretty positive that even if ordinals didn't come around, some other enterprise that would challenge bitcoin's capabilities will, and sadly it wasn't able to pass the challenge. On the other hand, it's a little concerning how massive the repercussions of Ordinals' existence brought, you wouldn't see such high fees and wait times in other networks and projects, makes me think what in the hell are they doing over there that makes every transaction in the BRC-20 that heavy. Far as I know they only work with a single sat for the main NFT itself, and a couple more to work on the transaction. If anybody could shed a light on this one that's going to be awesome.
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
May 19, 2023, 02:19:41 PM
#85
firstly..
ordinals do not transfer ownership.. forget caseys description of his project and understand how bitcoin works. not caseys crud.. especially becasue his crud is about explorer display decision. not block data rules

the ordinal meme spam junk sits in witness. but nothing in that witness suggested what output it tags too
becasue the witness is associated to the inputs not the outputs

so a tx of
BC1PJUNKUTXO 0.0001  ->  BC1POUTPUT1 0.00000001
                                          BC1POUTPUT2 0.00000999
signed key: BC1PJUNKUTXO
extrabloatmeme
(tx fee 9000sat)

that extra bloat meme is not locked to any output. so none of those outputs actually own the meme
so thats the first problem.. the meme is just dead data of the now spent BC1PJUNKUTXO

secondly

if rules came back limiting witness space to only include real signatures that actually associate to the utxo spend input where by nothing other then signature proofs can belong in the witness area...
then a tx would be rejected at relay and not appear in a block IF THE RULES WERE ENFORCED AGAIN
meaning no more junk spam containing memes

thus no more junk spam = no more junk spam..!

as for you caring about moving ownership of junk spam.. again it is never proven in blockchain data that junk belongs to particular output.. never has.. thus its never been a NFT or a ownership thing..
the junk spam data has just always been dead data added to witness area and just sits there as dead data.

worded a different way
ordinals never had real intrinsic value because its just junk spam dead data of no purpose apart from to fill blocks with dead data.
the whole illusion of value. is just a scam of ripping people off. getting idiots to pay for something they can never truly own. because it doesnt follow any real world economic flow nor even any blockchain proof of transfer. its an illusion of transfer without proof within the blockchain data.

casey can say this month all memes move via first output.. .. but thats not locked and secured by blockdata proof to suggest output1 . no proof thats the case nor always be true to be the case...
casey can without changing block data decide all memes belong to output 2. and suddenly the hopeful/delusional person of output 1. now realises he didnt own the meme. becasue now in CASEYS VIEW output 2 owned it historically

for a real proof of transfer the proof needs to be part of the block data and locked in a form that cant be changed after the fact.

caseys scam is that his proposed transfer is not locked in blockchain proof. but done as a after effect of a user interface decision that can change by just changing what the user interface decides. which does not require blockchain data proof decision changes. just a explorer decision.(which can change without affecting data) thus its not proof at all
copper member
Activity: 2226
Merit: 915
White Russian
May 19, 2023, 02:07:05 PM
#84
well the solution is not "put up with it or f**k off to another network"
that false solution is the idiot brigades thoughts on their only option to present

many topics talk about actual solutions
the main one that does not break bitcoin is tat from block 7XX,XXX opcodes need to show formatting conditions, expectations of data used with an opcode. and defined lengths of expected data.

this will make transaction byte data efficient and purposeful something that can be validated and verified. like it previously did

as for generating new opcode. well thats simple too. full nodes are suppose to validate all data. this includes the fullnodes mining pools use to manage block templates and what the network then validates to fit active rules to be an accepted block of accepted data.

so when a new opcode is desired devs PROPOSE an opcode and code it. and while in review the network users can download a copy fo also self review and when they flag they are ready to use it. that flag then shows consensus readiness that its at a safe enough level of network readiness to activate the opcode. and the opcode goes live knowing enough of the network is ready to validate the new feature. as what is suppose to happen.

yep full nodes are suppose to be ready to validate things. thats their point. they are not suppose to have blind bypasses of just calling things non standard and treat as valid without check just becasue someone called it a validation pass.

having opcodes that are tested. reviewed and have node readiness is a security feature.. bypasses allowing trojan data is an exploit/bug
I didn’t understand shit from what you propose to solve this issue, so I’ll ask differently. Suppose a conditional idiot uploaded a picture with his favorite meme to the bitcoin blockchain and paid for this transaction at the market price, it was confirmed. As a result of what you propose to do, will he still be able to transfer this picture to another owner, again paying for the transaction at the market price?

I put the question in this aspect, because the problem that has arisen is not entirely of a technical nature. If the downloaded image has lost its value over time, this is acceptable, a common investment risk. If an evil hacker hacked into a hardware wallet, took possession of private keys and transferred the picture to his address, this is also acceptable, a common information security risk. But if you change the consensus rules to tighten them up and a valid entry in the blockchain becomes invalid, this is unacceptable.
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
May 19, 2023, 01:48:05 PM
#83
blackhat

you are reciting your forum-wife mantra.. it doesnt mean his mantra is right because its echoed. nor right if it comes with ass kissery

what i said here is not "frankys solution" nor is it something i have been saying for the last 7 years
its standard common sense

as for my negative feedback
the same idiots you ass kiss are the ones circling the same feedback.. so its not even genuine

take your forum wife doomad
he cannot understand the concept of consent
i gave him a real world example of what consent is and he cried that i even mentioned it

as for gmax, he commented about that your clan went crying to him.. so its all your lil group not the wider community

as for you wanting me to not discuss certain things relevant.. eg core and code and bitcoin exploits are very relevant
plus this is a discussion form not a "f**k off away from bitcoin" forum
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 7340
Farewell, Leo
May 19, 2023, 01:08:51 PM
#82
well the solution is not "put up with it or f**k off to another network"
Indeed, it's not. But if you're watching yourself repeating the same things all over again, in every page of this board, every day with absolutely no positive response, regardless of whether you're right or not, you might need to rethink the solution. If nobody agrees with you, or only some inadequate minority, perhaps trying to convince everyone to adopt your notion is utter waste of time for you.

I get that you happened to enter Bitcoin early, and must be retired already, but honestly: don't you have something better to do? You're doing the same shit for 7 years straight, and the feedback is mostly negative.
legendary
Activity: 3948
Merit: 3191
Leave no FUD unchallenged
May 19, 2023, 12:54:04 PM
#81
Pretty sure the only "war" going on here is 'deluded people' versus 'reality'.  Reality always wins.


doomad loves low acceptance rate he hates super majority. he loves contention. he things the only options is to fork networks where people have to create altcoins. where only core can control policy. where no one should ask core to do something for the community

In the sense that devs are leaving policy matters for those securing the chain to decide for themselves, sure.  In any other sense, you're talking out of your arse.

You're the one asking devs to dictate policy by requesting that they implement rules to set the network policy so that it would prevent people transacting in ways you don't approve of (except it wouldn't).  You then argue that Core have too much power to set network policy and yet your solution to that perceived problem is to give them more power to set policy!?  What is wrong with your brain?  Besides which, devs have no desire to become arbiters of what constitutes "acceptable use".  You're just spouting populist nonsense.  


there are many opcodes that can be changed.

Then go ahead and change them.  You claim everyone feels the same way you do, so surely people would run code with your preferred changes to these opcodes.  If you believe Core's product isn't good enough and that your changes are undeniably better, make the code already.  You act like you have all the answers, but you're just an obnoxious gasbag who won't lift a finger to enact the change he claims "everyone wants".  You claim Core aren't doing a good enough job, but you won't do ANY job.  You can literally say whatever you like because you know you'll never have to prove it in practice.  And that's precisely why you'll never code anything.  Because if you did produce code, it would reveal you as the utter fraud that you are.  Because all you know how to do is spout populist nonsense.

On the one hand we have a team of devs who produce code that people freely choose to run.  On the other hand, we have a whiny malcontent who produces endless pages of whiny bullshit and absolutely nothing of value.  Take a wild guess as to which one is going to have more influence on the outcome of this situation.  The malcontent could change things if he had a competitive product of his own.  But he only has pages upon pages of crybaby screeching.


the idiot brigade have pretended that bitcoin was always soft weak and open to abuse. yet if they dared even try to bloat a legacy transaction they would learn the hard way that bitcoin was not always like this.
if they even dared research outside of the spoonfed narrative they all recite and echo to each other like a cult. they would finally learn a thing or two about what actually happened, when it happened, how it was caused and how it can be fixed.

You've been researching for years and still have nothing tangible to show for it.  You can spend all your life forming opinions based on what you think you've learned, but if you don't spend at least a small amount of time and effort putting what you've learned into practice, you'll never accomplish any of your goals.  

Telling people to "do research" and then do nothing else other than asking for devs to do stuff for them is weak advice at best (particularly if you've spent the last who-knows-how-many-years insulting the devs who you're now asking for assistance from).  

What I'd suggest is that people do their research AND THEN ACT UPON THEIR FINDINGS.  Run some code once you know what it does.  Make some code.  DO SOMETHING.  If people aren't willing to act or make any actual changes based on what they've learned, they'll likely just turn into bitter, feeble, whiny sad-sacks, like franky1, who spend their entire, pathetic lives achieving absolutely nothing (and having just one of those around here is more than enough already, thank you).  


so when a new opcode is desired devs PROPOSE an opcode and code it. and while in review the network users can download a copy fo also self review and when they flag they are ready to use it. that flag then shows consensus readiness that its at a safe enough level of network readiness to activate the opcode. and the opcode goes live knowing enough of the network is ready to validate the new feature. as what is suppose to happen.

Social contract.  Unenforceable.  That process can easily be ignored.  You can "suppose" all you like, but it's beyond apparent that you've completely lost all grip on reality.  

Reality happens.  Your demented suppositions don't.

Not only is it impossible to force someone to adhere to such a process, there isn't even an incentive to do so.  Aside from which, backwards-compatible changes can easily be activated if only a small portion of the network wish to use them (If 5 people agree to have burgers, putting ketchup on 2 of the burgers is still 5 people having burgers, ketchup is opt-in and doesn't require a majority).  

And, as ordinals demonstrate beyond all reasonable doubt, external third-party scripts have even less developmental oversight and can be coded by anyone and hosted anywhere to allow anyone to inject just about anything into the blockchain.  Protocol be damned.  And it's nothing to do with "soft rules" either, because people are injecting stuff into other blockchains which don't have any of the "soft rules" that franky1 bitches about.  

It's all just pie-in-the-sky franky1 populist drivel.

Cry more.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 6660
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
May 19, 2023, 11:49:44 AM
#80
Damn. This whole thread is filled with members literally fighting for various reasons. Personally, I was stunned to see BTC TX times and fees getting screwed thanks to NFT bullshit which I thought was dead sometime back.

I left this thread open so that it can demonstrate the point that Bitcoin consensus really is decentralized and is not a censor as some hooligans on Twitter and Youtube claim  Smiley
hero member
Activity: 3178
Merit: 977
www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games
May 19, 2023, 11:00:37 AM
#79
Damn. This whole thread is filled with members literally fighting for various reasons. Personally, I was stunned to see BTC TX times and fees getting screwed thanks to NFT bullshit which I thought was dead sometime back.

Luckily, BTC TX times and fees have almost gone back to normal pretty quickly which is the silver lining basically.
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
May 19, 2023, 10:48:52 AM
#78
well the solution is not "put up with it or f**k off to another network"
that false solution is the idiot brigades thoughts on their only option to present

many topics talk about actual solutions
the main one that does not break bitcoin is tat from block 7XX,XXX opcodes need to show formatting conditions, expectations of data used with an opcode. and defined lengths of expected data.

this will make transaction byte data efficient and purposeful something that can be validated and verified. like it previously did

as for generating new opcode. well thats simple too. full nodes are suppose to validate all data. this includes the fullnodes mining pools use to manage block templates and what the network then validates to fit active rules to be an accepted block of accepted data.

so when a new opcode is desired devs PROPOSE an opcode and code it. and while in review the network users can download a copy fo also self review and when they flag they are ready to use it. that flag then shows consensus readiness that its at a safe enough level of network readiness to activate the opcode. and the opcode goes live knowing enough of the network is ready to validate the new feature. as what is suppose to happen.

yep full nodes are suppose to be ready to validate things. thats their point. they are not suppose to have blind bypasses of just calling things non standard and treat as valid without check just becasue someone called it a validation pass.

having opcodes that are tested. reviewed and have node readiness is a security feature.. bypasses allowing trojan data is an exploit/bug
copper member
Activity: 2226
Merit: 915
White Russian
May 19, 2023, 10:39:42 AM
#77
so now windfury is denying the existing of these meme bloat.. and denying that core devs are devs..
soo who is mis informing??

core are bitcoin devs that softened consensus and even your forum daddy admits core done it. he loves promoting their role in it.

so if you are denying it. then you are denying your daddy. again you sway in one direction when the scripts written for you say A then you change to script B denying A when the script changes

how about look at code. look at block data instead of your silly influencer social drama of trusting people.

LOOK AT THE DATA. do your research. 
Okay, you're right. The developers of the core have been quite consistent in easing the initially tight restrictions of bitcoin, this has had its consequences, both positive and negative. With this we figured out, to the question "who is to blame?" the correct answer is found, now let's move on to the question "what to do?". Because it's easy and fun to loosen restrictions - it entails promising prospects in terms of scaling and rapid success in terms of breadth of adoption. But there is a nuance, once a weakened restriction can no longer be strengthened back without at least a partial loss of backward compatibility. Someone will inevitably suffer in this case - simply because yesterday it was still possible, but today it has become impossible. What do you propose to do about it, other than pointless grumbling on the forum?
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
May 19, 2023, 10:08:42 AM
#76
so now windfury is denying the existing of these meme bloat.. and denying that core devs are devs..
soo who is mis-informing??

core are bitcoin devs that softened consensus and even your forum daddy admits core done it. he loves promoting their role in it.

so if you are denying it. then you are denying your daddy. again you sway in one direction when the scripts written for you say A then you change to script B denying A when the script changes

how about look at code. look at block data instead of your silly influencer social drama of trusting people.

LOOK AT THE DATA. do your research.  
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