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Topic: Bitcoin Crashing Again.... - page 3. (Read 6833 times)

legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1010
Borsche
September 26, 2014, 11:53:11 AM
#50

IMO 40% of people if not more have heard of BTC.. might know it as "Illegal money.. or ponzie scheme etc"

.00001% of people actually decent idea of what BTC really is.

Seriously? You think 3 billion people know what bitcoin is? I think even 1 billion is a huge stretch. I'd be very surprised, but I agree with the .00001 knowing what it actually is.

you guys understand that 0.00001% is exactly 70 people? Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
September 26, 2014, 11:43:51 AM
#49
The biggest problem for bitcoin is that it is old news. There aren't practically any people left who haven't heard about bitcoin and everyone has already made up their mind on what to think of it. It means that the market is exhausted and there aren't many new people left who could potentially enter the market. The old enthusiasts are playing with each other, while money is slowly dripping out of the market.
You have to offer the masses something new to get excited about, if you want to stimulate the crypto market. No one will get excited about old news..

What a load of shit. 90% of the population doesn't know what bitcoin is.my girlfriend is a senior in college and is taking a class where her professor was talking about cryptocurrencies and bitcoin, besides her and the professor not one person had ever heard of bitcoin. I've talked about btc with hundreds of people in the world, not a single one of them knew any details about bitcoin other than it was some form of electronic money. Just because all the people on the bitcoin talk forum know about bitcoin, doesn't mean everyone already knows, the fact is 90% of people on the planet haven't a clue what it is.

I sort of disagree


IMO 40% of people if not more have heard of BTC.. might know it as "Illegal money.. or ponzie scheme etc"

.00001% of people actually decent idea of what BTC really is.

Seriously? You think 3 billion people know what bitcoin is? I think even 1 billion is a huge stretch. I'd be very surprised, but I agree with the .00001 knowing what it actually is.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1003
September 26, 2014, 11:36:49 AM
#48
But if an attacker obtain 51% mining power in a PoW network, there's nearly nothing you could do, other than go out and out-spend the attacker by buying more hardware and spending more on electricity. I'm sure the hardware vendor and electricity companies would love to see this happen. If no one step up and out-spend the attacker, the attacker with their vast amount of hardware can PERMANENTLY disable the Bitcoin PoW network, there's nothing you could do to stop them, other than... converting Bitcoin to PoS Smiley.

Do you understand that solution is easy, and attacker will spend alot of money ?
If you refuse hi priority transactions then your block will become invalid and ignored by others. You have to accept bitcoin rules or hash your own empty alt-chain.

The point of having a 51% attack is because you can decide which chain is valid, and what transaction to include. These are straight from the bitcoin wiki:

An attacker that controls more than 50% of the network's computing power can, for the time that he is in control, exclude and modify the ordering of transactions. This allows him to:
    Reverse transactions that he sends while he's in control. This has the potential to double-spend transactions that previously had already been seen in the block chain.
    Prevent some or all transactions from gaining any confirmations
    Prevent some or all other miners from mining any valid blocks

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1000
September 26, 2014, 11:00:28 AM
#47
The biggest problem for bitcoin is that it is old news. There aren't practically any people left who haven't heard about bitcoin and everyone has already made up their mind on what to think of it. It means that the market is exhausted and there aren't many new people left who could potentially enter the market. The old enthusiasts are playing with each other, while money is slowly dripping out of the market.
You have to offer the masses something new to get excited about, if you want to stimulate the crypto market. No one will get excited about old news..

What a load of shit. 90% of the population doesn't know what bitcoin is.my girlfriend is a senior in college and is taking a class where her professor was talking about cryptocurrencies and bitcoin, besides her and the professor not one person had ever heard of bitcoin. I've talked about btc with hundreds of people in the world, not a single one of them knew any details about bitcoin other than it was some form of electronic money. Just because all the people on the bitcoin talk forum know about bitcoin, doesn't mean everyone already knows, the fact is 90% of people on the planet haven't a clue what it is.

I sort of disagree

IMO 40% of people if not more have heard of BTC.. might know it as "Illegal money.. or ponzie scheme etc"

.00001% of people actually decent idea of what BTC really is.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
September 26, 2014, 09:16:06 AM
#46
The biggest problem for bitcoin is that it is old news. There aren't practically any people left who haven't heard about bitcoin and everyone has already made up their mind on what to think of it. It means that the market is exhausted and there aren't many new people left who could potentially enter the market. The old enthusiasts are playing with each other, while money is slowly dripping out of the market.
You have to offer the masses something new to get excited about, if you want to stimulate the crypto market. No one will get excited about old news..

What a load of shit. 90% of the population doesn't know what bitcoin is.my girlfriend is a senior in college and is taking a class where her professor was talking about cryptocurrencies and bitcoin, besides her and the professor not one person had ever heard of bitcoin. I've talked about btc with hundreds of people in the world, not a single one of them knew any details about bitcoin other than it was some form of electronic money. Just because all the people on the bitcoin talk forum know about bitcoin, doesn't mean everyone already knows, the fact is 90% of people on the planet haven't a clue what it is.
legendary
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1000
September 26, 2014, 09:06:53 AM
#45
But if an attacker obtain 51% mining power in a PoW network, there's nearly nothing you could do, other than go out and out-spend the attacker by buying more hardware and spending more on electricity. I'm sure the hardware vendor and electricity companies would love to see this happen. If no one step up and out-spend the attacker, the attacker with their vast amount of hardware can PERMANENTLY disable the Bitcoin PoW network, there's nothing you could do to stop them, other than... converting Bitcoin to PoS Smiley.

Do you understand that solution is easy, and attacker will spend alot of money ?
If you refuse hi priority transactions then your block will become invalid and ignored by others. You have to accept bitcoin rules or hash your own empty alt-chain.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1003
September 26, 2014, 08:15:09 AM
#44
Where's your rebuttal? I don't see anything disputing the fact that PoS is much more expensive to attack against. You just keep saying Bitcoin is expensive to attack, that's your opinion, I don't believe $500m is expensive for a well funded and determined attacker, such as nation government or big banks.

How many zero-day vulnerabilities and network nodes do you think you can find with $500 million?

With PoW nodes, they have no reason to be storing a "hot wallet". With PoS nodes, every node has a "hot wallet" in order to prove "stake".

The implication is that a determined attacker may be able to control more than 50% of the "stake" for a lot less than $500Million. As a bonus, they would be using less than 1MW of power while attacking the network (assuming thousands of machines to get good connectivity/node isolation).

Quote from: Odalv
Yes, I will only accept bitcoins with 12 * 6 = 72 confirmation (12 hour ... "old" money)  so DOUBLE SPEND will NOT be possible with only 90% of hash power.

With >51% of the hash-power, an attacker can roll back transactions. With 90% of the hash-power, they can roll back 8 hours every hour (in secret until they release their fork).

Hot wallet requirement is depend on the actual implementation, Peercoin needs hot wallets, Bitshares and NxT do not. It's incorrect to say PoS needs to run hot wallets.

Also I can't understand the logic of spending money = successfully hacking thousands of machines (especially if they are PoS hot wallets, which the owner probably took measures to properly secure their private computer, if these private computers are so easily hacked, then all web servers are doomed). I can think of several ways to make my hot wallet on my private computer unhackable from the outside. Usually people lose their hot wallet because they got phished, their dropbox backup got hacked, or installed some malware/keylogger. A LOT more Bitcoin hot wallets has been hacked, compared to Peercoin PoS miner hot wallet, I think so far ZERO peercoin PoS miner hotwallet has been hacked, the reality doesn't agree with your theory.

Ok, let's assume in the unlikely event a hacker does obtain 51% of all currency available, then the chain can still just rollback the attacker address. If someone hacked 51% of all Bitcoin, you can be pretty sure Bitcoin is rolling back the attacker's address too, otherwise the eco-system will fail immediately. So the only way to attack a PoS network, is to buy the stake legitimately. Then as soon as you do start to attack the PoS network, the community will find out and act upon the aggression, your address will be getting blocked immediately, and lose all your stake that you spent an astronomical amount of money to buy. You can be pretty sure that any potential attacker would know this, therefore they won't even attempt this attack. This is the reason ZERO PoS network has been 51% attacked so far. It's basically a nuke in the PoS network's arsenal, it can be used, so the attacker in fear of the nuke, won't even attempt the attack, which end up making the nuke never used. But it's good to know it's there.

But if an attacker obtain 51% mining power in a PoW network, there's nearly nothing you could do, other than go out and out-spend the attacker by buying more hardware and spending more on electricity. I'm sure the hardware vendor and electricity companies would love to see this happen. If no one step up and out-spend the attacker, the attacker with their vast amount of hardware can PERMANENTLY disable the Bitcoin PoW network, there's nothing you could do to stop them, other than... converting Bitcoin to PoS Smiley.
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
September 26, 2014, 08:02:31 AM
#43
Bitcoin is up 3243% over two years. Have a little patience! If you want fast returns, your local casino is always open.
sr. member
Activity: 1246
Merit: 261
★ Investor | Trader | Promoter
September 26, 2014, 07:47:59 AM
#42
The biggest problem for bitcoin is that it is old news. There aren't practically any people left who haven't heard about bitcoin and everyone has already made up their mind on what to think of it. It means that the market is exhausted and there aren't many new people left who could potentially enter the market. The old enthusiasts are playing with each other, while money is slowly dripping out of the market.
You have to offer the masses something new to get excited about, if you want to stimulate the crypto market. No one will get excited about old news..

b-but... but... but..  paypal... dollar collapsing..  bitcoin going to the moon... we'll all be rich. ... future currency..
 
you.. you must be a troll or a government shill
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 1022
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
September 26, 2014, 07:43:17 AM
#41
The biggest problem for bitcoin is that it is old news. There aren't practically any people left who haven't heard about bitcoin and everyone has already made up their mind on what to think of it. It means that the market is exhausted and there aren't many new people left who could potentially enter the market. The old enthusiasts are playing with each other, while money is slowly dripping out of the market.
You have to offer the masses something new to get excited about, if you want to stimulate the crypto market. No one will get excited about old news..

this is the biggest problem of the human race, they always want something new, they can't live with the same thing for too long, they get bored too fast with everything, it's more our fault and not bitcoin one
legendary
Activity: 876
Merit: 1000
September 26, 2014, 07:36:36 AM
#40
The biggest problem for bitcoin is that it is old news. There aren't practically any people left who haven't heard about bitcoin and everyone has already made up their mind on what to think of it. It means that the market is exhausted and there aren't many new people left who could potentially enter the market. The old enthusiasts are playing with each other, while money is slowly dripping out of the market.
You have to offer the masses something new to get excited about, if you want to stimulate the crypto market. No one will get excited about old news..
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 252
Here I Am !!
September 26, 2014, 07:32:59 AM
#39
I wish I was in btc a bit earlier, probably wouldnt have made such mistakes last year. just to learn how the highs never stay high for long. I am doing better now with selling on spikes.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
★Bitin.io★ - Instant Exchange
September 26, 2014, 07:31:41 AM
#38
Yes stay calm. Price was around here in April. No biggie.

But that was spring not autumn.
legendary
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1000
September 26, 2014, 06:11:51 AM
#37
Where's your rebuttal? I don't see anything disputing the fact that PoS is much more expensive to attack against. You just keep saying Bitcoin is expensive to attack, that's your opinion, I don't believe $500m is expensive for a well funded and determined attacker, such as nation government or big banks.

How many zero-day vulnerabilities and network nodes do you think you can find with $500 million?

With PoW nodes, they have no reason to be storing a "hot wallet". With PoS nodes, every node has a "hot wallet" in order to prove "stake".

The implication is that a determined attacker may be able to control more than 50% of the "stake" for a lot less than $500Million. As a bonus, they would be using less than 1MW of power while attacking the network (assuming thousands of machines to get good connectivity/node isolation).

Quote from: Odalv
Yes, I will only accept bitcoins with 12 * 6 = 72 confirmation (12 hour ... "old" money)  so DOUBLE SPEND will NOT be possible with only 90% of hash power.

With >51% of the hash-power, an attacker can roll back transactions. With 90% of the hash-power, they can roll back 8 hours every hour (in secret until they release their fork).

http://gavintech.blogspot.ch/2012/05/neutralizing-51-attack.html
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1010
Borsche
September 26, 2014, 02:51:13 AM
#36
A superior, secure, and mature PoS network will simply take over Bitcoin's position.

You guys do realize that until you come up with a better term than PoS no investor would take you seriously? Smiley "Yes I invested millions in some new PoS".

Seriously though, there is no pos currency with even 1% of bitcoin track record, and I don't see how one could emerge. No actual volume, no interest, means they are all very amateurish still, and at the first sign of actual interest or actual money going their way they will be hacked shitless, immediately.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
September 25, 2014, 11:24:49 PM
#35
"don't think bitcoin is crashing" - that made me LOL

It used to be $1200..

The price was above $1000 for 1 week in 5 years... You can't really say that "it used to be" 1200...
It used to be 10$ and then 100$...
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1001
Let the chips fall where they may.
September 25, 2014, 11:05:06 PM
#34
Where's your rebuttal? I don't see anything disputing the fact that PoS is much more expensive to attack against. You just keep saying Bitcoin is expensive to attack, that's your opinion, I don't believe $500m is expensive for a well funded and determined attacker, such as nation government or big banks.

How many zero-day vulnerabilities and network nodes do you think you can find with $500 million?

With PoW nodes, they have no reason to be storing a "hot wallet". With PoS nodes, every node has a "hot wallet" in order to prove "stake".

The implication is that a determined attacker may be able to control more than 50% of the "stake" for a lot less than $500Million. As a bonus, they would be using less than 1MW of power while attacking the network (assuming thousands of machines to get good connectivity/node isolation).

Quote from: Odalv
Yes, I will only accept bitcoins with 12 * 6 = 72 confirmation (12 hour ... "old" money)  so DOUBLE SPEND will NOT be possible with only 90% of hash power.

With >51% of the hash-power, an attacker can roll back transactions. With 90% of the hash-power, they can roll back 8 hours every hour (in secret until they release their fork).
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
September 25, 2014, 07:58:20 PM
#33
Don't think Bitcoin is crashing.  It actually looks like it's in a holding pattern of sorts:




"don't think bitcoin is crashing" - that made me LOL

It used to be $1200..

it never was $1200, $1200 was just a peak, an all-time high. It was never stable at $1200

It was $120 or so a year ago for crying out loud.

If you only look at the highest value it has ever been compared to the current price, of course it's never going to be higher.



Like the €3400/coin Wink

Yep lol the real ATH is 3400 euro, and considering its at <340 euro today, bitcoin is officially dead you guys!!

yes it actually fall for 10 times in just a month.

a month? more like 15-20 seconds. it was a flash crash up on btc-e a week or two ago. some bot repeatedly bought up coins for thousands of euro for a few minutes then regained its composure.
member
Activity: 108
Merit: 10
September 25, 2014, 06:44:31 PM
#32
Yes stay calm. Price was around here in April. No biggie.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1006
September 25, 2014, 06:40:38 PM
#31
Stay calm.
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