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Topic: Bitcoin is a flawed technology - page 2. (Read 4965 times)

legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1007
April 20, 2013, 04:13:15 PM
#43
Back to topic, guys?  Huh

Turns out Moore's Law is both correct and incorrect.

But in a way it's not so favorable to Bitcoin.

Single core processor speed as well as hard drive sizes have not significantly improved through the recent years.

That's because the desktop PC is dying. Everything goes smaller and mobile.

And these mobile devices are getting better and better. And the processors and storage media smaller and smaller.

It's only in this respect now that Moore's Law still holds true.

Either way, it's Satoshi himself who mentions that mining and blockchain storage will migrate to specialized data centers. And I'm afraid these specialists will turn out to be those corporations who don't care much if their servers cost $100,000 or a million.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
April 20, 2013, 04:06:04 PM
#42
I was under the impression that this label "Anarcho-Capitalist" applied to me. If that is infact not the case i would be interested in learning why. Would you be so kind as to explain your position with a bit more detail?

I don't know, I am not really familiar with your views.

To elaborate: Libertarianism puts the concept of ownership and contracts under the hood of "freedoms" which is inherently flawed.
The crux of the matter is that both are subject to power and the use of force, and they cannot exist with out it. Anarchism threats this in an agnostic way while Libertarians are dependent to take them for granted or their ideology falls apart.

ah yea deontological libertarins can be a little bit silly at times. To me property is nothing more than a useful construct that we as a society use to avoid conflict. You know since 2 people can not both eat the same apple, we can either chose to fight over it or we can establish some sort of property norm. To me the state is the former and i personally prefer the latter.

They can both eat half an apple.
Not if they both need a whole apple to survive.

Then there is no other possible solution other than (deadly!) force.

Of course in nature there is never just one apple...
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
April 20, 2013, 04:02:53 PM
#41
I was under the impression that this label "Anarcho-Capitalist" applied to me. If that is infact not the case i would be interested in learning why. Would you be so kind as to explain your position with a bit more detail?

I don't know, I am not really familiar with your views.

To elaborate: Libertarianism puts the concept of ownership and contracts under the hood of "freedoms" which is inherently flawed.
The crux of the matter is that both are subject to power and the use of force, and they cannot exist with out it. Anarchism threats this in an agnostic way while Libertarians are dependent to take them for granted or their ideology falls apart.

ah yea deontological libertarins can be a little bit silly at times. To me property is nothing more than a useful construct that we as a society use to avoid conflict. You know since 2 people can not both eat the same apple, we can either chose to fight over it or we can establish some sort of property norm. To me the state is the former and i personally prefer the latter.

They can both eat half an apple.
Not if they both need a whole apple to survive.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
April 20, 2013, 04:01:27 PM
#40
I was under the impression that this label "Anarcho-Capitalist" applied to me. If that is infact not the case i would be interested in learning why. Would you be so kind as to explain your position with a bit more detail?

I don't know, I am not really familiar with your views.

To elaborate: Libertarianism puts the concept of ownership and contracts under the hood of "freedoms" which is inherently flawed.
The crux of the matter is that both are subject to power and the use of force, and they cannot exist with out it. Anarchism threats this in an agnostic way while Libertarians are dependent to take them for granted or their ideology falls apart.

ah yea deontological libertarins can be a little bit silly at times. To me property is nothing more than a useful construct that we as a society use to avoid conflict. You know since 2 people can not both eat the same apple, we can either chose to fight over it or we can establish some sort of property norm. To me the state is the former and i personally prefer the latter.

They can both eat half an apple.

And there is force involved every time, alone the task of grasping the apple is a subject to potential conflict.
hero member
Activity: 682
Merit: 500
April 20, 2013, 04:00:48 PM
#39
I wrote in depth about Moore's law this year for English. And while it's true that it was "just an observation 40 years ago," people have done plot studies of exactly how accurate Moore's law has been (read: The Singularity is Near by Ray Kuzweil).
  In addition to the astounding accuracy of Moore's law, the general implications of the axiom hold true for nearly every technology from the past to the future. Much before Moore's law (or even Gordon Moore himself) existed, there were various paradigms of technology (read: vacuum tubes, transistors, etc.). Because of the obvious path for technological innovation, new technologies will arise and continue to follow Moore's law.

In fact, HP already uses platinum latch technology for printer cartridges and is working on moving that technology over to IC's. And at the same time, companies like Intel and IBM are putting a ton of work into carbon nanotubes. The future is literally unfathomable. Following your closed-minded notions, it's easily understandable why people in the 80's thought computers would always be room-sized.

RE: BitCloud

I am just thinking about it logically, ignoring any historical precedents. "The past doesnt predict the future." Correct logic predicts the future. If someone invented a new mechanism of storage that was more efficient than magnetic or flash in memory storage, it still wouldnt change the logical premise that there is a hard limit to how much data can be stored on a chip or, lets just say, 'storage device', and therefore bitcoin is theoretically flawed, because the size of the blockchain will never stop growing over time. Of course there may be some 'out of this world' technology that comes along which cannot be even imagined right now, that makes storage unlimited and therefore bitcoin feasible. Maybe a bit like nuclear fusion supposedly makes energy unlimited. That is a big , crazy assumption.

Practically, if the blockchain keeps growing at the current rate, i think we're going to see some real problems with scalability of bitcoin in the much more closer future - before flash or magnetic storage is superseeded - i'm talking about in the next 6 months.



That is an absolutely absurd time line for the average user to run out of space for the block chain. I understand that you firmly believe the block chain growth will out pace the produced storage space (theoretically), but there already exists enough storage space on the average computer to hold the block chain for years to come (and you can quote me on that). In addition to that, storage will continue to increase at an increasing rate (read: exponential growth) through this paradigm and onto the next (it's true that the past doesn't predict the future, but it gives a damn good idea). Once a simple method for truncating the block chain has been distributed, the storage argument won't even be valid anymore.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
April 20, 2013, 03:51:04 PM
#38
I was under the impression that this label "Anarcho-Capitalist" applied to me. If that is infact not the case i would be interested in learning why. Would you be so kind as to explain your position with a bit more detail?

I don't know, I am not really familiar with your views.

To elaborate: Libertarianism puts the concept of ownership and contracts under the hood of "freedoms" which is inherently flawed.
The crux of the matter is that both are subject to power and the use of force, and they cannot exist with out it. Anarchism threats this in an agnostic way while Libertarians are dependent to take them for granted or their ideology falls apart.

ah yea deontological libertarins can be a little bit silly at times. To me property is nothing more than a useful construct that we as a society use to avoid conflict. You know since 2 people can not both eat the same apple, we can either chose to fight over it or we can establish some sort of property norm. To me the state is the former and i personally prefer the latter.
donator
Activity: 1731
Merit: 1008
April 20, 2013, 02:48:39 PM
#37
Public service ; User "Xavier" was on ignore list prior to this post.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
April 20, 2013, 01:55:24 PM
#36
Flawed also:

Easy to fake/spam and limited:
- tcp/ip
- dns
- email

Inefficient:
- Ethernet protocol, invented in the 80s, considered as being obsolete a long time ago

Bitcoin is not going to get superseded by any "better" currency (good luck finding all that crypto power btc already has)

As with DNS, email and pretty much any other Internet protocol, services can work on top of what's already out there: dnssec, encrypted email, ip masquerading etc.


Bitcoin isn't a standard nor a technology. It's a concrete implementation which was meant as a proof of concept.
This would be like if we were using cern httpd.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
April 20, 2013, 01:48:48 PM
#35
Practically, if the blockchain keeps growing at the current rate, i think we're going to see some real problems with scalability of bitcoin in the much more closer future - before flash or magnetic storage is superseeded - i'm talking about in the next 6 months.

The tubes! They will be clogged by the blockchain!
sr. member
Activity: 260
Merit: 250
April 20, 2013, 01:39:24 PM
#34
I wrote in depth about Moore's law this year for English. And while it's true that it was "just an observation 40 years ago," people have done plot studies of exactly how accurate Moore's law has been (read: The Singularity is Near by Ray Kuzweil).
  In addition to the astounding accuracy of Moore's law, the general implications of the axiom hold true for nearly every technology from the past to the future. Much before Moore's law (or even Gordon Moore himself) existed, there were various paradigms of technology (read: vacuum tubes, transistors, etc.). Because of the obvious path for technological innovation, new technologies will arise and continue to follow Moore's law.

In fact, HP already uses platinum latch technology for printer cartridges and is working on moving that technology over to IC's. And at the same time, companies like Intel and IBM are putting a ton of work into carbon nanotubes. The future is literally unfathomable. Following your closed-minded notions, it's easily understandable why people in the 80's thought computers would always be room-sized.

RE: BitCloud

I am just thinking about it logically, ignoring any historical precedents. "The past doesnt predict the future." Correct logic predicts the future. If someone invented a new mechanism of storage that was more efficient than magnetic or flash in memory storage, it still wouldnt change the logical premise that there is a hard limit to how much data can be stored on a chip or, lets just say, 'storage device', and therefore bitcoin is theoretically flawed, because the size of the blockchain will never stop growing over time. Of course there may be some 'out of this world' technology that comes along which cannot be even imagined right now, that makes storage unlimited and therefore bitcoin feasible. Maybe a bit like nuclear fusion supposedly makes energy unlimited. That is a big , crazy assumption.

Practically, if the blockchain keeps growing at the current rate, i think we're going to see some real problems with scalability of bitcoin in the much more closer future - before flash or magnetic storage is superseeded - i'm talking about in the next 6 months.

newbie
Activity: 48
Merit: 0
April 20, 2013, 01:00:36 PM
#33
Flawed also:

Easy to fake/spam and limited:
- tcp/ip
- dns
- email

Inefficient:
- Ethernet protocol, invented in the 80s, considered as being obsolete a long time ago

Bitcoin is not going to get superseded by any "better" currency (good luck finding all that crypto power btc already has)

As with DNS, email and pretty much any other Internet protocol, services can work on top of what's already out there: dnssec, encrypted email, ip masquerading etc.
hero member
Activity: 715
Merit: 500
Bitcoin Venezuela
April 20, 2013, 12:57:52 PM
#32
Why is this thread under Economics?
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
April 20, 2013, 12:37:44 PM
#31
I was under the impression that this label "Anarcho-Capitalist" applied to me. If that is infact not the case i would be interested in learning why. Would you be so kind as to explain your position with a bit more detail?

I don't know, I am not really familiar with your views.
Gotta love when people admit they're speaking from a position of ignorance.

That was meant on a personal level, not meant for the association to Libertarianism or "AnaCap"
Yes, I think I do know your personal views well enough.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
April 20, 2013, 12:35:17 PM
#30
I was under the impression that this label "Anarcho-Capitalist" applied to me. If that is infact not the case i would be interested in learning why. Would you be so kind as to explain your position with a bit more detail?

I don't know, I am not really familiar with your views.
Gotta love when people admit they're speaking from a position of ignorance.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
April 20, 2013, 12:28:35 PM
#29
It's wonderful you hold these societies in such high esteem. Surely they will bring your salvation when the barbarians are darkening your doorway as has happened to every civilization in history. Your politicians and economists have the answers you are looking for.

Either that or humanity will die out.
It's always been the freedom-fighters and paradigm-shifting philosphers that have led the revolutions and evolution of every new social system. In fact, they are the ones that pay the highest price to defend humanity against itself. It's your politicians and economists that shy away from progress and lead toward austerity and a more Modest Proposal.

Those freedom fighters didn't hoard tokens to inherit their decedents for them to become the new elite.
Are you saying that politicians don't hoard money for their progeny?

Are you saying they are freedom fighters?
Yes. Bitcoiners are non-violent freedom fighters. Bitcoiners don't hoard like politicians, they don't brainwash populations like economists, and they don't build WMD's like scientists. Their battleground is virtual and their ammunition is cognitive dissonance.

I reject your concept of freedom.

also see
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1010
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
April 20, 2013, 12:23:21 PM
#28
It's wonderful you hold these societies in such high esteem. Surely they will bring your salvation when the barbarians are darkening your doorway as has happened to every civilization in history. Your politicians and economists have the answers you are looking for.

Either that or humanity will die out.
It's always been the freedom-fighters and paradigm-shifting philosphers that have led the revolutions and evolution of every new social system. In fact, they are the ones that pay the highest price to defend humanity against itself. It's your politicians and economists that shy away from progress and lead toward austerity and a more Modest Proposal.

Those freedom fighters didn't hoard tokens to inherit their decedents for them to become the new elite.
Are you saying that politicians don't hoard money for their progeny?

Are you saying they are freedom fighters?
Yes. Bitcoiners are non-violent freedom fighters. Bitcoiners don't hoard like politicians, they don't brainwash populations like economists, and they don't build WMD's like scientists. Their battleground is virtual and their ammunition is cognitive dissonance.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
April 20, 2013, 12:22:47 PM
#27
I was under the impression that this label "Anarcho-Capitalist" applied to me. If that is infact not the case i would be interested in learning why. Would you be so kind as to explain your position with a bit more detail?

I don't know, I am not really familiar with your views.

To elaborate: Libertarianism puts the concept of ownership and contracts under the hood of "freedoms" which is inherently flawed.
The crux of the matter is that both are subject to power and the use of force, and they cannot exist with out it. Anarchism threats this in an agnostic way while Libertarians are dependent to take them for granted or their ideology falls apart.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
April 20, 2013, 12:15:30 PM
#26
It's wonderful you hold these societies in such high esteem. Surely they will bring your salvation when the barbarians are darkening your doorway as has happened to every civilization in history. Your politicians and economists have the answers you are looking for.

Either that or humanity will die out.
It's always been the freedom-fighters and paradigm-shifting philosphers that have led the revolutions and evolution of every new social system. In fact, they are the ones that pay the highest price to defend humanity against itself. It's your politicians and economists that shy away from progress and lead toward austerity and a more Modest Proposal.

Those freedom fighters didn't hoard tokens to inherit their decedents for them to become the new elite.
Are you saying that politicians don't hoard money for their progeny?

Are you saying they are freedom fighters?
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
April 20, 2013, 12:06:39 PM
#25
Bitcoin isn't a flawed technology.
It is just not designed to function as a practical system to build a society on. It was meant as a proof of concept and was hijacked by a weird libertarian cargo cult.
Right. Hijacked.

Quote from: Genesis Block
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

Quote from: Satoshi Nakamoto
[Bitcoin is] very attractive to the libertarian viewpoint if we can explain it properly. I'm better with code than with words though.

Quote from: Satoshi Nakamoto
Yes, [we will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography,] but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years. Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own.

Ok maybe it was Bitcoin which hijacked libertarianism.  Wink
I mean there is a certain appeal of Anarchism and Cyberpunk for Libertarians out there, but that doesn't make it the same thing. (Even if you guys to claim you are Anarcho-Capitalists you are not)

I was under the impression that this label "Anarcho-Capitalist" applied to me. If that is infact not the case i would be interested in learning why. Would you be so kind as to explain your position with a bit more detail?
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1010
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
April 20, 2013, 11:59:32 AM
#24
It's wonderful you hold these societies in such high esteem. Surely they will bring your salvation when the barbarians are darkening your doorway as has happened to every civilization in history. Your politicians and economists have the answers you are looking for.

Either that or humanity will die out.
It's always been the freedom-fighters and paradigm-shifting philosphers that have led the revolutions and evolution of every new social system. In fact, they are the ones that pay the highest price to defend humanity against itself. It's your politicians and economists that shy away from progress and lead toward austerity and a more Modest Proposal.

Those freedom fighters didn't hoard tokens to inherit their decedents for them to become the new elite.
Are you saying that politicians don't hoard money for their progeny?
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