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Topic: Bitcoin is a hot target for criminals and money launderers. (Read 5058 times)

sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250

I agree that wars suck, and dollars do fund wars.  But how do you know that bitcoin doesn't fund wars, or that it won't in the future?  How do you know that people on the other side of the world aren't funding some of the wars going on in the Middle East and Ukraine?  Not to mention the potential use for funding terrorist activities...
Well from something I've heard ISIS had looked into using bitcoin, but the issue with Bitcoin is not many people accept it vs accepting state issued currencies. Also if Bitcoin was/is/will be used for funding wars/terrorism it will probably be in the form of a temporary transfer of money, not using it to directly buy, but I can only speculate. Also remember terrorism is a subjective term used by the state to denote violent groups that they don't fund/suppor. Remember the Mujahdeen("freedom fighters"), and the Vietcong("terrorists")?

Precious metals I believe are a better way of laundering money than Bitcoin currently as you can open anonymous safe deposit boxes almost anywhere, and Precious metals have certain price stability to them, and more people are willing to exchange fiat for precious metals vs Bitcoin.

Precious metals may be better for laundering money, but can they be transferred across the globe? ISIS (or any other agency) can get bitcoins from a place half way across the globe. Might not be possible to do that with precious metals.
I don't think they are better at laundering money. Even though it is possible to melt down gold (for example), most gold bars are identified by serial number and somewhat kept track of. This will somewhat reduce the fungible level of gold as some people may not want to accept a gold bar that is involved in nefarious activity.
member
Activity: 82
Merit: 10
Yes of course bitcoin is the prime sector todays so called criminals and money launders are targeting the most.
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1064

I agree that wars suck, and dollars do fund wars.  But how do you know that bitcoin doesn't fund wars, or that it won't in the future?  How do you know that people on the other side of the world aren't funding some of the wars going on in the Middle East and Ukraine?  Not to mention the potential use for funding terrorist activities...
Well from something I've heard ISIS had looked into using bitcoin, but the issue with Bitcoin is not many people accept it vs accepting state issued currencies. Also if Bitcoin was/is/will be used for funding wars/terrorism it will probably be in the form of a temporary transfer of money, not using it to directly buy, but I can only speculate. Also remember terrorism is a subjective term used by the state to denote violent groups that they don't fund/suppor. Remember the Mujahdeen("freedom fighters"), and the Vietcong("terrorists")?

Precious metals I believe are a better way of laundering money than Bitcoin currently as you can open anonymous safe deposit boxes almost anywhere, and Precious metals have certain price stability to them, and more people are willing to exchange fiat for precious metals vs Bitcoin.

Precious metals may be better for laundering money, but can they be transferred across the globe? ISIS (or any other agency) can get bitcoins from a place half way across the globe. Might not be possible to do that with precious metals.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1005
Bitcoin's concept of anonymity is a hot target for the greedy. Its structure helps criminals do their criminal acts. They can easily participate on illegal transactions without being traced (or a high possibility of not being traced) by the authority. Decentralization also helps them in accomplishing some serious thefts and laundering because nobody has the power to freeze their money unless they're traced by the government. This is just one of the many things why merchants all over the world doesn't accept the idea of using bitcoin into their business. It seems to risky for them to touch knowing that there are many possibilities that they can be victimized by theft and frauds.

Nonsense. if that was the case they would not accept dollars.

Dollars fund wars.
Bitcoins do not fund wars.

War is in general a criminal act, few if any wars are in self defense, most wars are theft by a larger country against a smaller one because they can get away it.

but not because it if theft by a country  it stops being theft, it may not be theft under the law because that same country that doing the theft is the one writing the law, but if we were to hear from the smaller country the one that is on the losing end they would say it is theft.

That is why in the world an international court with power it is highly needed, not a symbolical one with absolutely no power.

Going back to Bitcoin, Bitcoin is much more transparent than the dollar, the rules are precise and well known by everyone, there is even a public ledger which is the blockchain, on the other hand the Dollars operates in a very closed way with no transparency.

So if you are a crook your currency of choice should be the dollar, plus in comparison to Bitcoin they are easy to counterfeit.

I agree that wars suck, and dollars do fund wars.  But how do you know that bitcoin doesn't fund wars, or that it won't in the future?  How do you know that people on the other side of the world aren't funding some of the wars going on in the Middle East and Ukraine?  Not to mention the potential use for funding terrorist activities...

To engage in a war, you have to

1. Buy lots of weapons
2. Remove large parts of the productive workforce (the workers) to use as soldiers.
2a) EDIT: Change the remaining productive capacity from consumer goods to war goods.
3. Tax the people
4. Confiscate land, buildings, ships, planes and vehicles
5. Loan money from the people of the country
6. Print money

When this is done, the people are hungry, freezing and sick.

The war will just die out due to lack of resources.

7 But wait... then there is banks. They can lend money to buy more weapons, and foodstuffs to the people. (Example now is IMF that lends to the Kiev government, demanding the donbas people crushed).

Bitcoin takes away points 3, 6 and 7. And with wealth hidden in bitcoin, much of 4 also. And if people understand the cost of war, and that loans probably will not be paid back, 5 also.

This is why bitcoin can change the world, if widely adopted.



member
Activity: 63
Merit: 10
There always lies another dark world whether or not bitcoin existis.They are making bitcoin a target as we all know the simplicity and anonymity that lies while moving your money so easily where ever you want and buy whatever you like and do whatever you want.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
I agree that wars suck, and dollars do fund wars.  But how do you know that bitcoin doesn't fund wars, or that it won't in the future?  How do you know that people on the other side of the world aren't funding some of the wars going on in the Middle East and Ukraine?  Not to mention the potential use for funding terrorist activities...
Well from something I've heard ISIS had looked into using bitcoin, but the issue with Bitcoin is not many people accept it vs accepting state issued currencies. Also if Bitcoin was/is/will be used for funding wars/terrorism it will probably be in the form of a temporary transfer of money, not using it to directly buy, but I can only speculate. Also remember terrorism is a subjective term used by the state to denote violent groups that they don't fund/suppor. Remember the Mujahdeen("freedom fighters"), and the Vietcong("terrorists")?

Precious metals I believe are a better way of laundering money than Bitcoin currently as you can open anonymous safe deposit boxes almost anywhere, and Precious metals have certain price stability to them, and more people are willing to exchange fiat for precious metals vs Bitcoin.
Bitcoin may not work as well yet, but isn't the eventual goal total adoption?  If it reaches that point, accepting it for payment won't be a problem.  And whether bitcoin would be used to buy, say, weapons, or whether it would be used to transfer money so terrorists can buy weapons doesn't really matter.  Bitcoin would still be a much more convenient way to transfer money than fiat or precious metals.

As for defining terrorists, maybe the term is sometimes applied incorrectly, but a terrorist is someone who uses violence to cause terror, usually for some kind of particular goal.  If you're detonating bombs in buildings, subways, etc. to scare people, you're a terrorist.  It doesn't matter whether you think you're doing it for some noble cause or not.  When it's part of a war (or police action or whatever other BS term you want to use for it), it's usually a little different.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
The drug trade is estimated to be worth $400 Bn a year. What portion do you think is conducted through bitcoins?
Probably a small amount as a percentage, but larger then the percentage that the BTC market cap is verses the dollar.

What is more important here is the comparison between the drug trade amount effected in each currency relative to the total supply of this currency (perhaps, this is what you meant to say). And this comparison wouldn't be in favor of Bitcoin, as I can guess.
I would think this stat would likely make bitcoin look very bad. With that being said I think the overall percentage of drug and illegal related trade is still very low when compared to legit trade, and the illegal trade can be fought with law enforcement.

Yes, you are probably right, but we also shouldn't fail to consider that what you call "legit trade" primarily consists of speculation and online casinos' transactions.
With more merchants starting to accept bitcoin, legit trade is starting to consist of more things like computers, satellite TV service and household goods. This is a trend that will likely continue until the vast majority of bitcoin related trade is similar to the kind of trade you have at a shopping mall.

on every 2000 dollars spend in creditcard 1 dollar is stolen by thiefs. just an idea that cc system is as well week. numbers for cahs?
I am not sure how accurate your stats are but the principle is correct. Merchants are the ones who ultimately need to pay for this fraud and these costs are almost always passed on to consumers. This is why the price you pay with a CC is not transparent as there are "hidden" costs to the products consumers buy.
If it costs less to accept bitcoin then credit cards then companies will likely pass along some of this savings to their customers. When customers pay less of a price for the same product they will buy from that store more. As a result the store will have higher profits because they accept bitcoin. It will be a never ending cycle.
legendary
Activity: 1045
Merit: 1000
Bitcoin's concept of anonymity is a hot target for the greedy. Its structure helps criminals do their criminal acts. They can easily participate on illegal transactions without being traced (or a high possibility of not being traced) by the authority. Decentralization also helps them in accomplishing some serious thefts and laundering because nobody has the power to freeze their money unless they're traced by the government. This is just one of the many things why merchants all over the world doesn't accept the idea of using bitcoin into their business. It seems to risky for them to touch knowing that there are many possibilities that they can be victimized by theft and frauds.

the concept of something is a thing which is to vague, as you could talk about it as a thing. Example: Bread, you can touch, you can smell, you can taste. God, you cant, but people talking about smelling God, touching God or even tasting God. The problem is here the logic. Bitcoiners are more rational guys, like geeks, more as esoterik believers of energy fields. So I would say, your arguments having an Syntax Error.
 
Just my 50 satoshis.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1004
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
The drug trade is estimated to be worth $400 Bn a year. What portion do you think is conducted through bitcoins?
Probably a small amount as a percentage, but larger then the percentage that the BTC market cap is verses the dollar.

What is more important here is the comparison between the drug trade amount effected in each currency relative to the total supply of this currency (perhaps, this is what you meant to say). And this comparison wouldn't be in favor of Bitcoin, as I can guess.
I would think this stat would likely make bitcoin look very bad. With that being said I think the overall percentage of drug and illegal related trade is still very low when compared to legit trade, and the illegal trade can be fought with law enforcement.

Yes, you are probably right, but we also shouldn't fail to consider that what you call "legit trade" primarily consists of speculation and online casinos' transactions.
With more merchants starting to accept bitcoin, legit trade is starting to consist of more things like computers, satellite TV service and household goods. This is a trend that will likely continue until the vast majority of bitcoin related trade is similar to the kind of trade you have at a shopping mall.

on every 2000 dollars spend in creditcard 1 dollar is stolen by thiefs. just an idea that cc system is as well week. numbers for cahs?
I am not sure how accurate your stats are but the principle is correct. Merchants are the ones who ultimately need to pay for this fraud and these costs are almost always passed on to consumers. This is why the price you pay with a CC is not transparent as there are "hidden" costs to the products consumers buy.
member
Activity: 62
Merit: 10
Bitcoin's concept of anonymity is a hot target for the greedy. Its structure helps criminals do their criminal acts. They can easily participate on illegal transactions without being traced (or a high possibility of not being traced) by the authority. Decentralization also helps them in accomplishing some serious thefts and laundering because nobody has the power to freeze their money unless they're traced by the government. This is just one of the many things why merchants all over the world doesn't accept the idea of using bitcoin into their business. It seems to risky for them to touch knowing that there are many possibilities that they can be victimized by theft and frauds.

Nonsense. if that was the case they would not accept dollars.

Dollars fund wars.
Bitcoins do not fund wars.

War is in general a criminal act, few if any wars are in self defense, most wars are theft by a larger country against a smaller one because they can get away it.

but not because it if theft by a country  it stops being theft, it may not be theft under the law because that same country that doing the theft is the one writing the law, but if we were to hear from the smaller country the one that is on the losing end they would say it is theft.

That is why in the world an international court with power it is highly needed, not a symbolical one with absolutely no power.

Going back to Bitcoin, Bitcoin is much more transparent than the dollar, the rules are precise and well known by everyone, there is even a public ledger which is the blockchain, on the other hand the Dollars operates in a very closed way with no transparency.

So if you are a crook your currency of choice should be the dollar, plus in comparison to Bitcoin they are easy to counterfeit.

I agree that wars suck, and dollars do fund wars.  But how do you know that bitcoin doesn't fund wars, or that it won't in the future?  How do you know that people on the other side of the world aren't funding some of the wars going on in the Middle East and Ukraine?  Not to mention the potential use for funding terrorist activities...
Well from something I've heard ISIS had looked into using bitcoin, but the issue with Bitcoin is not many people accept it vs accepting state issued currencies. Also if Bitcoin was/is/will be used for funding wars/terrorism it will probably be in the form of a temporary transfer of money, not using it to directly buy, but I can only speculate. Also remember terrorism is a subjective term used by the state to denote violent groups that they don't fund/suppor. Remember the Mujahdeen("freedom fighters"), and the Vietcong("terrorists")?

Precious metals I believe are a better way of laundering money than Bitcoin currently as you can open anonymous safe deposit boxes almost anywhere, and Precious metals have certain price stability to them, and more people are willing to exchange fiat for precious metals vs Bitcoin.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 251
Knowledge its everything
Not only bitcoin, every type money is hot hot target for criminals and money launderers
criminals and money launderers is target everything that profitable for them

And some people think bitcoin created for bad purpose   Angry
Banks can called money launderers too  Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1012
Beyond Imagination
The biggest money launderer are banks, but this topic does not belong here

Bitcoin transaction does not fit into today's monetary system at all, regulate-from-bank-account method will not work. Currently the best authorities can do is to regulate the exchanges, once wealth entered bitcoin network, they can be totally free from regulation

legendary
Activity: 1045
Merit: 1000
The drug trade is estimated to be worth $400 Bn a year. What portion do you think is conducted through bitcoins?
Probably a small amount as a percentage, but larger then the percentage that the BTC market cap is verses the dollar.

What is more important here is the comparison between the drug trade amount effected in each currency relative to the total supply of this currency (perhaps, this is what you meant to say). And this comparison wouldn't be in favor of Bitcoin, as I can guess.
I would think this stat would likely make bitcoin look very bad. With that being said I think the overall percentage of drug and illegal related trade is still very low when compared to legit trade, and the illegal trade can be fought with law enforcement.

Yes, you are probably right, but we also shouldn't fail to consider that what you call "legit trade" primarily consists of speculation and online casinos' transactions.
With more merchants starting to accept bitcoin, legit trade is starting to consist of more things like computers, satellite TV service and household goods. This is a trend that will likely continue until the vast majority of bitcoin related trade is similar to the kind of trade you have at a shopping mall.

on every 2000 dollars spend in creditcard 1 dollar is stolen by thiefs. just an idea that cc system is as well week. numbers for cahs?
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1004
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
The drug trade is estimated to be worth $400 Bn a year. What portion do you think is conducted through bitcoins?
Probably a small amount as a percentage, but larger then the percentage that the BTC market cap is verses the dollar.

What is more important here is the comparison between the drug trade amount effected in each currency relative to the total supply of this currency (perhaps, this is what you meant to say). And this comparison wouldn't be in favor of Bitcoin, as I can guess.
I would think this stat would likely make bitcoin look very bad. With that being said I think the overall percentage of drug and illegal related trade is still very low when compared to legit trade, and the illegal trade can be fought with law enforcement.

Yes, you are probably right, but we also shouldn't fail to consider that what you call "legit trade" primarily consists of speculation and online casinos' transactions.
With more merchants starting to accept bitcoin, legit trade is starting to consist of more things like computers, satellite TV service and household goods. This is a trend that will likely continue until the vast majority of bitcoin related trade is similar to the kind of trade you have at a shopping mall.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
Bitcoin's concept of anonymity is a hot target for the greedy. Its structure helps criminals do their criminal acts. They can easily participate on illegal transactions without being traced (or a high possibility of not being traced) by the authority. Decentralization also helps them in accomplishing some serious thefts and laundering because nobody has the power to freeze their money unless they're traced by the government. This is just one of the many things why merchants all over the world doesn't accept the idea of using bitcoin into their business. It seems to risky for them to touch knowing that there are many possibilities that they can be victimized by theft and frauds.

Nonsense. if that was the case they would not accept dollars.

Dollars fund wars.
Bitcoins do not fund wars.

War is in general a criminal act, few if any wars are in self defense, most wars are theft by a larger country against a smaller one because they can get away it.

but not because it if theft by a country  it stops being theft, it may not be theft under the law because that same country that doing the theft is the one writing the law, but if we were to hear from the smaller country the one that is on the losing end they would say it is theft.

That is why in the world an international court with power it is highly needed, not a symbolical one with absolutely no power.

Going back to Bitcoin, Bitcoin is much more transparent than the dollar, the rules are precise and well known by everyone, there is even a public ledger which is the blockchain, on the other hand the Dollars operates in a very closed way with no transparency.

So if you are a crook your currency of choice should be the dollar, plus in comparison to Bitcoin they are easy to counterfeit.

I agree that wars suck, and dollars do fund wars.  But how do you know that bitcoin doesn't fund wars, or that it won't in the future?  How do you know that people on the other side of the world aren't funding some of the wars going on in the Middle East and Ukraine?  Not to mention the potential use for funding terrorist activities...
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 526
The drug trade is estimated to be worth $400 Bn a year. What portion do you think is conducted through bitcoins?
Probably a small amount as a percentage, but larger then the percentage that the BTC market cap is verses the dollar.

What is more important here is the comparison between the drug trade amount effected in each currency relative to the total supply of this currency (perhaps, this is what you meant to say). And this comparison wouldn't be in favor of Bitcoin, as I can guess.
I would think this stat would likely make bitcoin look very bad. With that being said I think the overall percentage of drug and illegal related trade is still very low when compared to legit trade, and the illegal trade can be fought with law enforcement.

Yes, you are probably right, but we also shouldn't fail to consider that what you call "legit trade" primarily consists of speculation and online casinos' transactions.
sr. member
Activity: 313
Merit: 258
Bitcoin's concept of anonymity is a hot target for the greedy. Its structure helps criminals do their criminal acts. They can easily participate on illegal transactions without being traced (or a high possibility of not being traced) by the authority. Decentralization also helps them in accomplishing some serious thefts and laundering because nobody has the power to freeze their money unless they're traced by the government. This is just one of the many things why merchants all over the world doesn't accept the idea of using bitcoin into their business. It seems to risky for them to touch knowing that there are many possibilities that they can be victimized by theft and frauds.

Nonsense. if that was the case they would not accept dollars.

Dollars fund wars.
Bitcoins do not fund wars.

War is in general a criminal act, few if any wars are in self defense, most wars are theft by a larger country against a smaller one because they can get away it.

but not because it if theft by a country  it stops being theft, it may not be theft under the law because that same country that doing the theft is the one writing the law, but if we were to hear from the smaller country the one that is on the losing end they would say it is theft.

That is why in the world an international court with power it is highly needed, not a symbolical one with absolutely no power.

Going back to Bitcoin, Bitcoin is much more transparent than the dollar, the rules are precise and well known by everyone, there is even a public ledger which is the blockchain, on the other hand the Dollars operates in a very closed way with no transparency.

So if you are a crook your currency of choice should be the dollar, plus in comparison to Bitcoin they are easy to counterfeit.


full member
Activity: 209
Merit: 100
The drug trade is estimated to be worth $400 Bn a year. What portion do you think is conducted through bitcoins?
Probably a small amount as a percentage, but larger then the percentage that the BTC market cap is verses the dollar.

What is more important here is the comparison between the drug trade amount effected in each currency relative to the total supply of this currency (perhaps, this is what you meant to say). And this comparison wouldn't be in favor of Bitcoin, as I can guess.
I would think this stat would likely make bitcoin look very bad. With that being said I think the overall percentage of drug and illegal related trade is still very low when compared to legit trade, and the illegal trade can be fought with law enforcement.
legendary
Activity: 1582
Merit: 1064
The drug trade is estimated to be worth $400 Bn a year. What portion do you think is conducted through bitcoins?
Probably a small amount as a percentage, but larger then the percentage that the BTC market cap is verses the dollar.

What is more important here is the comparison between the drug trade amount effected in each currency relative to the total supply of this currency (perhaps, this is what you meant to say). And this comparison wouldn't be in favor of Bitcoin, as I can guess.

Probably true, given the total number of USD in circulation.
But it doesn't take away the fact that cash (fiat) is the most popular means of exchange for criminals.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 526
The drug trade is estimated to be worth $400 Bn a year. What portion do you think is conducted through bitcoins?
Probably a small amount as a percentage, but larger then the percentage that the BTC market cap is verses the dollar.

What is more important here is the comparison between the drug trade amount effected in each currency relative to the total supply of this currency (perhaps, this is what you meant to say). And this comparison wouldn't be in favor of Bitcoin, as I can guess.
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