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Topic: Bitcoin is a hot target for criminals and money launderers. - page 3. (Read 4986 times)

legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1003
Bitcoin's concept of anonymity is a hot target for the greedy. Its structure helps criminals do their criminal acts. They can easily participate on illegal transactions without being traced (or a high possibility of not being traced) by the authority. Decentralization also helps them in accomplishing some serious thefts and laundering because nobody has the power to freeze their money unless they're traced by the government. This is just one of the many things why merchants all over the world doesn't accept the idea of using bitcoin into their business. It seems to risky for them to touch knowing that there are many possibilities that they can be victimized by theft and frauds.

Cash can be used for the wrong purposes too. Bitcoin is just a tool, and like all tools it can be used for good or evil. Businesses are not at any more risk of being victimized by theft and fraud as long as they take appropriate precautions.

Do you really believe that the government should be able to trace your transactions? I don't. I believe in privacy rights, my money is my money to do with as I wish, without the government looking over my shoulder, until I am proven guilty of a crime.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 526
Byrne has long complained about investors using various loopholes in the financial markets to improperly boost profits at the expense of public companies and the overall economy—with Overstock even going so far as to sue some of the biggest names on Wall Street

http://www.wired.com/2014/07/overstock-and-cryptocurrency/

Interesting article.  I'm having a hard time imagining the advantages and disadvantages of cryptosecurities, but I guess there are still a lot of details to be fleshed out.  So I'm really not sure yet what issues it would solve.  But, as he points out, it would eliminate high-frequency trading...at least probably.  I could see someone figuring out a way to do it anyway, but it would probably be very difficult.

One of the things it could do is broaden the investor base.
Somebody sitting in rural India could invest in US stocks, which is not possible now.

The last first thing a peasant in India would want to do is to invest in the US stocks! Smiley

You will never know until you give him the choice.  Smiley

If he were given a choice, he would cease to be an Indian peasant the same very moment. Wink
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
Byrne has long complained about investors using various loopholes in the financial markets to improperly boost profits at the expense of public companies and the overall economy—with Overstock even going so far as to sue some of the biggest names on Wall Street

http://www.wired.com/2014/07/overstock-and-cryptocurrency/

Interesting article.  I'm having a hard time imagining the advantages and disadvantages of cryptosecurities, but I guess there are still a lot of details to be fleshed out.  So I'm really not sure yet what issues it would solve.  But, as he points out, it would eliminate high-frequency trading...at least probably.  I could see someone figuring out a way to do it anyway, but it would probably be very difficult.

One of the things it could do is broaden the investor base.
Somebody sitting in rural India could invest in US stocks, which is not possible now.

The last first thing a peasant in India would want to do is to invest in the US stocks! Smiley

You will never know until you give him the choice.  Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
Bitcoin's concept of anonymity is a hot target for the greedy. Its structure helps criminals do their criminal acts. They can easily participate on illegal transactions without being traced (or a high possibility of not being traced) by the authority. Decentralization also helps them in accomplishing some serious thefts and laundering because nobody has the power to freeze their money unless they're traced by the government. This is just one of the many things why merchants all over the world doesn't accept the idea of using bitcoin into their business. It seems to risky for them to touch knowing that there are many possibilities that they can be victimized by theft and frauds.

Step 1: Company registers with BitPay.

Step 2:  Nothing.  In one step, the company has now avoided any issues with potential fraud, theft, and even price volatility.

Conclusion: "Risk" is a poor reason for a merchant to decide not to use BTC because payment processors like BitPay eliminate the risk.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 500
Time is on our side, yes it is!
Byrne has long complained about investors using various loopholes in the financial markets to improperly boost profits at the expense of public companies and the overall economy—with Overstock even going so far as to sue some of the biggest names on Wall Street

http://www.wired.com/2014/07/overstock-and-cryptocurrency/

Interesting article.  I'm having a hard time imagining the advantages and disadvantages of cryptosecurities, but I guess there are still a lot of details to be fleshed out.  So I'm really not sure yet what issues it would solve.  But, as he points out, it would eliminate high-frequency trading...at least probably.  I could see someone figuring out a way to do it anyway, but it would probably be very difficult.

One of the things it could do is broaden the investor base.
Somebody sitting in rural India could invest in US stocks, which is not possible now.


That may be so but atleast they would have the option to choose.  With the current system they have no choice and are left out in the cold.
The last first thing a peasant in India would want to do is to invest in the US stocks! Smiley
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 526
Byrne has long complained about investors using various loopholes in the financial markets to improperly boost profits at the expense of public companies and the overall economy—with Overstock even going so far as to sue some of the biggest names on Wall Street

http://www.wired.com/2014/07/overstock-and-cryptocurrency/

Interesting article.  I'm having a hard time imagining the advantages and disadvantages of cryptosecurities, but I guess there are still a lot of details to be fleshed out.  So I'm really not sure yet what issues it would solve.  But, as he points out, it would eliminate high-frequency trading...at least probably.  I could see someone figuring out a way to do it anyway, but it would probably be very difficult.

One of the things it could do is broaden the investor base.
Somebody sitting in rural India could invest in US stocks, which is not possible now.

The last first thing a peasant in India would want to do is to invest in the US stocks! Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
Byrne has long complained about investors using various loopholes in the financial markets to improperly boost profits at the expense of public companies and the overall economy—with Overstock even going so far as to sue some of the biggest names on Wall Street

http://www.wired.com/2014/07/overstock-and-cryptocurrency/

Interesting article.  I'm having a hard time imagining the advantages and disadvantages of cryptosecurities, but I guess there are still a lot of details to be fleshed out.  So I'm really not sure yet what issues it would solve.  But, as he points out, it would eliminate high-frequency trading...at least probably.  I could see someone figuring out a way to do it anyway, but it would probably be very difficult.

One of the things it could do is broaden the investor base.
Somebody sitting in rural India could invest in US stocks, which is not possible now.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
Byrne has long complained about investors using various loopholes in the financial markets to improperly boost profits at the expense of public companies and the overall economy—with Overstock even going so far as to sue some of the biggest names on Wall Street

http://www.wired.com/2014/07/overstock-and-cryptocurrency/

Interesting article.  I'm having a hard time imagining the advantages and disadvantages of cryptosecurities, but I guess there are still a lot of details to be fleshed out.  So I'm really not sure yet what issues it would solve.  But, as he points out, it would eliminate high-frequency trading...at least probably.  I could see someone figuring out a way to do it anyway, but it would probably be very difficult.
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
Byrne has long complained about investors using various loopholes in the financial markets to improperly boost profits at the expense of public companies and the overall economy—with Overstock even going so far as to sue some of the biggest names on Wall Street

http://www.wired.com/2014/07/overstock-and-cryptocurrency/
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
He really didn't get into detail but I'd think having a ledger for anyone to see plays a role as far as transparency is concerned.  I can't seem to find it online or I'd post a link but the program was on Fox and I believe the show is "The Independents".
Ok.  I tried a quick search but couldn't find it either.  I agree that crimes in the financial sector have become systemic.  But that's the problem: they're systemic.  No one in power tries (or wants) to stop them.  Many are ignorant of them, true, but a lot of people do know about them.  The problem is that they can't do anything about it.  Better transparency or not, I think they would still exist.  So if bitcoin becomes as mainstream as other major currencies, I'm not sure how it won't be used for a lot of similar things.  Bitcoin would prevent some types of manipulation, but not all.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 500
Time is on our side, yes it is!
He really didn't get into detail but I'd think having a ledger for anyone to see plays a role as far as transparency is concerned.  I can't seem to find it online or I'd post a link but the program was on Fox and I believe the show is "The Independents".
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
The CEO of Overstock was on the news and he made a comment that really made an impression on me.  It's not a exact quote but basically he said "there will no doubt be crimes taking place Bitcon economy but the amount of crimes we have in our current financial system are far worse and there is no comparison which is the better model".  I butchered the quote but that was the basic point he was trying to make.

People don't get that these crimes are taking place in the fiat market at an alarming rate.  Bitcoin will stop many of these massive crimes from taking place leading to an overall better system.  Saying criminals target Bitcoin is a silly feat tactic.  They target anything of real value and that includes Bitcoin.
I'm not saying I disagree that there are many crimes taking place in our current financial system, but what crimes was he talking about?
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Bitcoin is a hot target I will not deny, but I don't see that being different than anything else that can also be classed as a hot target for criminals. Fair enough it may be easier for them to purchase illegal goods and even scam people using bitcoin but people are getting scammed using other currencies as well.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 500
Time is on our side, yes it is!
The CEO of Overstock was on the news and he made a comment that really made an impression on me.  It's not a exact quote but basically he said "there will no doubt be crimes taking place Bitcon economy but the amount of crimes we have in our current financial system are far worse and there is no comparison which is the better model".  I butchered the quote but that was the basic point he was trying to make.

People don't get that these crimes are taking place in the fiat market at an alarming rate.  Bitcoin will stop many of these massive crimes from taking place leading to an overall better system.  Saying criminals target Bitcoin is a silly feat tactic.  They target anything of real value and that includes Bitcoin.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 526
Does anybody monitor the Estimated transaction volume in btc? By blockchain.info Estimated transaction volume decreased more than twice YTD. What is the reason for that?

I think more bitcoins got aggregated at exchanges, and the movement of coins inside the exchange (for example, from one account to another) doesn't get reflected on the blockchain. But surely there can be other explanations as well.
newbie
Activity: 33
Merit: 0
Sure bitcoin can be used by criminals, but as has been said by a number of people so can lots of other things. The key question is do the positives outweigh the negatives? The answer for bitcoin is that they absolutely smash them. Bitcoin is overwhelmingly good despite the issues that have been raised.

One thing though - the pseudonymous argument made time and again is a little lukewarm. the block chain may record everything that happens, but in practice it does not allow for the effective tracking of laundered money. This still makes it much better than cash given cash is truly anonymous, but the fact that bitcoin is much easier than cash to move in large amounts across borders cancels this out in my view.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE bitcoin, but I think we are better off acknowledging its imperfections and stressing that they pale in comparison to all the benefits.
newbie
Activity: 35
Merit: 0
Does anybody monitor the Estimated transaction volume in btc? By blockchain.info Estimated transaction volume decreased more than twice YTD. What is the reason for that?
sr. member
Activity: 467
Merit: 250
So we are accomplice in crime? It very possible we have been received some stolen btc from someone which is proceed from one to another address, but how can we know the btc is stolen?
sr. member
Activity: 399
Merit: 257
Bitcoin's concept of anonymity is a hot target for the greedy. Its structure helps criminals do their criminal acts. They can easily participate on illegal transactions without being traced (or a high possibility of not being traced) by the authority. Decentralization also helps them in accomplishing some serious thefts and laundering because nobody has the power to freeze their money unless they're traced by the government. This is just one of the many things why merchants all over the world doesn't accept the idea of using bitcoin into their business. It seems to risky for them to touch knowing that there are many possibilities that they can be victimized by theft and frauds.

Another uninformed post...

Bitcoin is not anonymous; it is pseudonymous. It offers more transparency than fiat does. Can you tell me how many criminal hands have touched that dollar in your wallet? Bitcoin can tell you how many times a coin in any address has moved. Is your problem related to the fact that you don't know who the owners of the past addresses are? The last time I checked, I don't know who that store cashier who gave me my change was. Should I spend the next 2 years locating that person to find out if that person is a criminal? Fiat is the most anonymous form of currency. Why do you think illegal drug and gun sales are cash-only transactions?

Bitcoin also offers greater protection to the merchant than any other digital payment processor can. Chargebacks are impossible, which means that theft and fraud are irrelevant in a legitimate merchant-based transaction. How could a merchant be victimized by a customer if the merchant always gets paid first? If the merchant is allowing the customer to pay later, then that's an issue with the merchant's business practices and not with Bitcoin. If you were a cashier in a store, would you let a customer that you've never seen before pay for goods with an IOU and a maybe-not-fake ID?

How many times has all of this been discussed before? 10 million? 20? 50? Maybe more than Bitcoin's entropy set for addresses?

My point is that bitcoin's structure and nature is affecting its adoption and use by the general public. I agree with you that the payment system offered by bitcoin is more secure than any other payment processors out there, but the mere fact that it's also used for shady transactions and any other fraudulent works make it unappealing for those who might use it. Fiat can also be used for this kind of transactions, but using it is very easy to trace.

These are the primary reasons why most merchants and businesses have not yet adopted Bitcoin:

- The spending value of Bitcoin is volatile.
- There is still a considerable amount of uncertainty regarding the government's stance on Bitcoin.
- Many people do not understand how Bitcoin works. This is especially important if those people comprise the majority of a merchant's customer base.

The fact that Bitcoin can be used for fraud and illegal dealings is not a deterrent for businesses to start accepting it. That has never stopped a business from accepting fiat. That has also not stopped many businesses from accepting payment from credit cards and from Paypal and other payment processors. In fact, a lot of businesses have to deal with chargebacks worth hundreds of thousand of dollars daily.

You need to do more research before you get back on the podium.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 506
International black market is said to be around $10 trillion.  Crypto Currencies at the moment is $11 billion.  Do the math.  All the money laundering is done in $Fiat cash, not Bitcoin.
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