Bitcoin is attracting the wrong people

countryfree

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Quote from: jseverson on October 13, 2017, 03:00:21 AM

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What's next? There are topics about Amazon suddenly accepting BTC, but the people who expect this, haven't understood that Amazon would kill BTC if it accepted it. The network couldn't handle such a huge number of additional transactions.

That's an interesting way of looking at it. I've honestly never considered it from that angle. This is somewhat true. Transactions are slow to confirm with the modest number of transactions that we have, so I can't imagine what would happen if we get much more additional strain. This is assuming that everyone who holds Bitcoins will spend, though, and that lots of Amazon customers are going to get Bitcoin just for their purchases. At the current state of things, if this happens, I would assume that the additional load would be bearable. Transactions will get slower though. There's a lot of room for improvement here.

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It is now obvious that BTC will never replace credit cards. BTC is slower than Paypal, and sometimes even more expensive. The past 2 years have clearly shown that there won't be a quick fix to BTC's problems. All the early adopters know that. If BTC's price keeps on rising, that is because the newcomers DO NOT care about BTC. They just want to make a quick buck.

What would you suggest to solve this problem? I mean, Bitcoin was meant to be open, so everyone is welcome to get in on it. Also, if you invested completely because of the ideals, then I salute you, as you're probably among the <1% of the Bitcoin holder population.

I'm part of the <1%! First time I'm hearing someone telling me this. Quite true, though. I miss the early, libertarian days when there were posts about how BTC would change the world and destroy governments. What we're having now is more of the same, with BTC attracting greedy speculators, without any wish to change anything. Some cards have been shuffled, as some libertarians early believers now find themselves rich, but that's it.

I just wonder how the new investors will react when the mempool is clogged again, making them unable to do transactions.

jseverson

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Quote

What's next? There are topics about Amazon suddenly accepting BTC, but the people who expect this, haven't understood that Amazon would kill BTC if it accepted it. The network couldn't handle such a huge number of additional transactions.

That's an interesting way of looking at it. I've honestly never considered it from that angle. This is somewhat true. Transactions are slow to confirm with the modest number of transactions that we have, so I can't imagine what would happen if we get much more additional strain. This is assuming that everyone who holds Bitcoins will spend, though, and that lots of Amazon customers are going to get Bitcoin just for their purchases. At the current state of things, if this happens, I would assume that the additional load would be bearable. Transactions will get slower though. There's a lot of room for improvement here.

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It is now obvious that BTC will never replace credit cards. BTC is slower than Paypal, and sometimes even more expensive. The past 2 years have clearly shown that there won't be a quick fix to BTC's problems. All the early adopters know that. If BTC's price keeps on rising, that is because the newcomers DO NOT care about BTC. They just want to make a quick buck.

What would you suggest to solve this problem? I mean, Bitcoin was meant to be open, so everyone is welcome to get in on it. Also, if you invested completely because of the ideals, then I salute you, as you're probably among the <1% of the Bitcoin holder population.

hatshepsut93

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Bitcoin attracts masses and masses is exactly want to you want for a currency - the more people use it, the more successful it becomes. Even without scaling Bitcoin is worth a lot, it's the first ever and also the most and stable decentralized payment system - it's a huge achievment on its own and there are many possible use cases for it beyond just a currency, many people see it and they keep investing. But also it's not so bad with the scaling as it may seem - Lightning Network would be like a second birth for Bitcoin and will allow it to compete with traditional payment systems for the first time. This can be another reasons for the current rally.

BrewMaster

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Quote from: countryfree on October 12, 2017, 04:56:41 PM

I thought SegWit would be a nice step solution but it's dead, and the SegWit 2X thing is already dead before launched.

you really need to check your facts bro.
SegWit was just activated, nearly nobody is yet using it simply because the new versions of wallets are not yet released and updating will always take time (people don't upgrade on first day of them being released, it may take months). for instance new version Electrum that i am using and is supposed to have SegWit support was not yet released last time i checked.

also nothing about SegWit2x is dead, i don't know why you even say that!

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What's next? There are topics about Amazon suddenly accepting BTC, but the people who expect this, haven't understood that Amazon would kill BTC if it accepted it. The network couldn't handle such a huge number of additional transactions.

you are making the wrong assumption that if Amazon were to accept bitcoin in November everyone will rush to spend their bitcoins out of nowhere! something that has not happened in past years despite many shops accepting bitcoin!

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The worst part is that despite all this, BTC's price keeps on rising. That makes me richer, but sad because the people who invest in BTC today, cannot share the enthusiasm and the ideals which made me invest in it in 2013.

2013 was the peak of people who don't care about bitcoin and what it is. it was THE year that everyone was just buying it to get rich and the rest were mining it because it was super profitable with just a PC!
and all of them disappeared and sold their PC as soon as price started coming down from the willy bubble.

Erelas

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I am a little confused too, but perhaps for different reasons. I don't believe Bitcoin was ever meant to replace credit cards or other more mainstream financial transactions, but as an augment to them. BTC will become more mainstream, requiring more power, and not necessarily increasing it's value, and value can be a subjective term.

I still don't entirely understand Lightning implementation, I'll be the first to admit, and the more I try to educate myself the more I run into others trying to do the same and seeming to not get very far.

Money, whatever it's form, is only good if it can be spent, and if Lightning will aid in this, then great, if it's simply a means to causing another fork so soon, then I'd be more likely to say it's a greed thing.

Mike Mayor

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Quote from: Ucy on October 12, 2017, 06:28:18 PM

Quote from: countryfree on October 12, 2017, 04:56:41 PM

We've been living for more than 2 years with the scalability issue, and there's real drama here, because nothing is fixed, mempool is rising again. Blocks are full. I already made a topic about it sometimes last year (or was that the year before? I don't want to check). I thought SegWit would be a nice step solution but it's dead, and the SegWit 2X thing is already dead before launched.

What's next? There are topics about Amazon suddenly accepting BTC, but the people who expect this, haven't understood that Amazon would kill BTC if it accepted it. The network couldn't handle such a huge number of additional transactions.

The worst part is that despite all this, BTC's price keeps on rising. That makes me richer, but sad because the people who invest in BTC today, cannot share the enthusiasm and the ideals which made me invest in it in 2013.

It is now obvious that BTC will never replace credit cards. BTC is slower than Paypal, and sometimes even more expensive. The past 2 years have clearly shown that there won't be a quick fix to BTC's problems. All the early adopters know that. If BTC's price keeps on rising, that is because the newcomers DO NOT care about BTC. They just want to make a quick buck.

Sorry to say this, your post makes no sense to me. What exactly is the point here?

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It is now obvious that BTC will never replace credit cards. BTC is slower than Paypal"

You claimed to be an early yet you seem not to be know that Lightening Network will fix this? Was Bitcoin even meant to replace Credit Card?

It's a ridiculous post. I can't believe a legendary can talk such utter crap. Please I would love to know how amazing would destroy bitcoin when it will increase the use. Obviously we will need more processing power and more miners will be available so that is a stupid pointless argument.

Oh btw people who don't support Bitcoin and want a quick buck almost always screw up because they here for the wrong reasons and have too much greed. I welcome such people with open arms. Their money becomes ours. How can you bit understand this. Dies the OP even trade?

francedeni

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Quote from: mostkey on October 12, 2017, 06:38:36 PM

Quote from: Lipe490 on October 12, 2017, 05:27:49 PM

I had on my mind that BTC came to replace or even help the form we make payments all over the world. I think Amazon accepting bitcoin is a great idea and will give us another method of payment. I see and understand your concern about people who buy BTC today will not share the same hype and enthusiasm we had 4 or 5 years ago. But always keep in mind that maybe 2 years from now BTC will be 10k USD? Or more? Never underestimate this coin because it has shown us amazing things.

and I am sure in the next 2-3 years time 10k wall in the sure will be penetrated! 'Why?' because the volume of bitcoin continues to increase in each year, with this limited amount of bitcoin will benefit us every year. although we buy bitcoins at a high price, this will still give us a long-term advantage. along with the adoption of bitcoin payment systems in many companies

Bitcoin has a lot of challenges before it will be accepted and implement of merchants. Yes one of the good news about it is the amazon will be accepting bitcoin as payment. Actually there are many speculation about bitcoin but I beleive in the coming years there will be more adoption and more development in.

mostkey

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Quote from: Lipe490 on October 12, 2017, 05:27:49 PM

I had on my mind that BTC came to replace or even help the form we make payments all over the world. I think Amazon accepting bitcoin is a great idea and will give us another method of payment. I see and understand your concern about people who buy BTC today will not share the same hype and enthusiasm we had 4 or 5 years ago. But always keep in mind that maybe 2 years from now BTC will be 10k USD? Or more? Never underestimate this coin because it has shown us amazing things.

and I am sure in the next 2-3 years time 10k wall in the sure will be penetrated! 'Why?' because the volume of bitcoin continues to increase in each year, with this limited amount of bitcoin will benefit us every year. although we buy bitcoins at a high price, this will still give us a long-term advantage. along with the adoption of bitcoin payment systems in many companies

Ucy

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Quote from: countryfree on October 12, 2017, 04:56:41 PM

We've been living for more than 2 years with the scalability issue, and there's real drama here, because nothing is fixed, mempool is rising again. Blocks are full. I already made a topic about it sometimes last year (or was that the year before? I don't want to check). I thought SegWit would be a nice step solution but it's dead, and the SegWit 2X thing is already dead before launched.

What's next? There are topics about Amazon suddenly accepting BTC, but the people who expect this, haven't understood that Amazon would kill BTC if it accepted it. The network couldn't handle such a huge number of additional transactions.

The worst part is that despite all this, BTC's price keeps on rising. That makes me richer, but sad because the people who invest in BTC today, cannot share the enthusiasm and the ideals which made me invest in it in 2013.

It is now obvious that BTC will never replace credit cards. BTC is slower than Paypal, and sometimes even more expensive. The past 2 years have clearly shown that there won't be a quick fix to BTC's problems. All the early adopters know that. If BTC's price keeps on rising, that is because the newcomers DO NOT care about BTC. They just want to make a quick buck.

Sorry to say this, your post makes no sense to me. What exactly is the point here?

Quote

It is now obvious that BTC will never replace credit cards. BTC is slower than Paypal"

You claimed to be an early yet you seem not to be know that Lightening Network will fix this? Was Bitcoin even meant to replace Credit Card?

bitbob82

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Quote from: shinratensei_ on October 12, 2017, 05:21:13 PM

Quote from: RGBKey on October 12, 2017, 05:10:10 PM

I don't think it's attracting the "wrong" people, I just think that it's starting to attract the non cryptophiles and such. I think Bitcoin can continue to grow slowly, it's not gonna just jump up to 20k overnight.

Nope, i understand about the OP is trying to say about the bitcoin are attracting those are a greedy person just like some parties wants to fork the bitcoin more and more. This did not about grow of the bitcoin itself, but the bitcoin is in the wrong way if there will be another fork in the future, bitcoin is not the crypto to generate the money just like another altcoin.
And so this is attracting wrong people.

Good and bad people are always there in a society, and bitcoin is not specially created for good people. it is a currency and everyone either he is good or bad will thinkabout it and will surelly try to findout their benefits from it. but i think that still the majorty of users are from trading and investment sectores and i do nothink that there is anything wrong in trading and investment.

kkent

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Quote from: countryfree on October 12, 2017, 04:56:41 PM

We've been living for more than 2 years with the scalability issue, and there's real drama here, because nothing is fixed, mempool is rising again. Blocks are full. I already made a topic about it sometimes last year (or was that the year before? I don't want to check). I thought SegWit would be a nice step solution but it's dead, and the SegWit 2X thing is already dead before launched.

What's next? There are topics about Amazon suddenly accepting BTC, but the people who expect this, haven't understood that Amazon would kill BTC if it accepted it. The network couldn't handle such a huge number of additional transactions.

The worst part is that despite all this, BTC's price keeps on rising. That makes me richer, but sad because the people who invest in BTC today, cannot share the enthusiasm and the ideals which made me invest in it in 2013.

It is now obvious that BTC will never replace credit cards. BTC is slower than Paypal, and sometimes even more expensive. The past 2 years have clearly shown that there won't be a quick fix to BTC's problems. All the early adopters know that. If BTC's price keeps on rising, that is because the newcomers DO NOT care about BTC. They just want to make a quick buck.

There is definitely a lot of financial speculation going on. I am worried that the involvement of wall street and more "traditional" investors will result in BTC experiencing a crash if the rest of the global economy crashes. When it was just early holders/tech people I always figured that we would be mostly insulated from another '08 crash....

dothebeats

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Though what you say is correct—in part—still there would be a viable solution along the way. SegWit is the first true realization that something needs to be fixed on the code otherwise transactions will be darn expensive and slow. Unlike any other software/code/protocol/whatever, bitcoin needs time to be developed and (hopefully) be perfected. SegWit solved a thing or two, and you can see it in the mempool, but again, the protocol isn't perfect yet to handle too much transactions/sec, but it's getting there. I'm a realist most of the time and don't sugarcoat things, but honestly, there is still room for improvement for bitcoins. I just hope that politics and self-centered, egoistic deeds won't get in the way for the development of the coin.

Also, let's all be honest, we're here to make some profit at first but were also amazed on how bitcoin changed classical and modern economics. No one who works for bitcoin never thought about not making money off of it.

john2231

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Quote from: shinratensei_ on October 12, 2017, 05:21:13 PM

Quote from: RGBKey on October 12, 2017, 05:10:10 PM

I don't think it's attracting the "wrong" people, I just think that it's starting to attract the non cryptophiles and such. I think Bitcoin can continue to grow slowly, it's not gonna just jump up to 20k overnight.

Nope, i understand about the OP is trying to say about the bitcoin are attracting those are a greedy person just like some parties wants to fork the bitcoin more and more. This did not about grow of the bitcoin itself, but the bitcoin is in the wrong way if there will be another fork in the future, bitcoin is not the crypto to generate the money just like another altcoin.
And so this is attracting wrong people.

I think he mean is letting amazon to accept bitcoin as payment could attract more people to invest and use bitcoin as payment method that can increase the bitcoin price that can be result of technical issue about bitcoin so think the bad people here are people from amazon who uses bitcoin as payment that can increase the value of bitcoin and more people are using it..
Every time we seen the price increased we are seen that they are fixing what will be the issue or error about bitcoin .
Just let bitcoin grow and let experience some issue when using bitcoin so that they can start fixing issue in the early stage to become more efficient and usable in the future.. that is why we have bitcoin developers and technicians that can fix what will be the issue of bitcoin in the future....

Well those early can be benefited than new comers but i think they can be still gaining and earn if they understand that bitcoin is unpredictable and i think bitcoin could be more stable in the future that can all people can get benefits of using it..

QuestionAuthority

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Quote from: countryfree on October 12, 2017, 04:56:41 PM

We've been living for more than 2 years with the scalability issue, and there's real drama here, because nothing is fixed, mempool is rising again. Blocks are full. I already made a topic about it sometimes last year (or was that the year before? I don't want to check). I thought SegWit would be a nice step solution but it's dead, and the SegWit 2X thing is already dead before launched.

What's next? There are topics about Amazon suddenly accepting BTC, but the people who expect this, haven't understood that Amazon would kill BTC if it accepted it. The network couldn't handle such a huge number of additional transactions.

The worst part is that despite all this, BTC's price keeps on rising. That makes me richer, but sad because the people who invest in BTC today, cannot share the enthusiasm and the ideals which made me invest in it in 2013.

It is now obvious that BTC will never replace credit cards. BTC is slower than Paypal, and sometimes even more expensive. The past 2 years have clearly shown that there won't be a quick fix to BTC's problems. All the early adopters know that. If BTC's price keeps on rising, that is because the newcomers DO NOT care about BTC. They just want to make a quick buck.

What’s wrong with making a quick buck? I’ve already used bitcoin to make four million of them, ain’t nothing wrong with that. Every time the coin increases in value another couple thousand dollars, sell off a few and laugh your way to the bank on the backs of all the idiots that are buying now. Bitcoin was only ever going to make the early adopters rich. Go with the flow dude.

Lipe490

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I had on my mind that BTC came to replace or even help the form we make payments all over the world. I think Amazon accepting bitcoin is a great idea and will give us another method of payment. I see and understand your concern about people who buy BTC today will not share the same hype and enthusiasm we had 4 or 5 years ago. But always keep in mind that maybe 2 years from now BTC will be 10k USD? Or more? Never underestimate this coin because it has shown us amazing things.

mudiko

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Quote from: countryfree on October 12, 2017, 04:56:41 PM

The worst part is that despite all this, BTC's price keeps on rising. That makes me richer, but sad because the people who invest in BTC today, cannot share the enthusiasm and the ideals which made me invest in it in 2013.

It is now obvious that BTC will never replace credit cards. BTC is slower than Paypal, and sometimes even more expensive. The past 2 years have clearly shown that there won't be a quick fix to BTC's problems. All the early adopters know that. If BTC's price keeps on rising, that is because the newcomers DO NOT care about BTC. They just want to make a quick buck.

It is a brain twister for me. Each time I settle bitcoin transactions, I start to ask myself "Is it really the currency of future?". I guess Bitcoin would not be able to keep dominating crypto world under these conditions. Once bitcoin would lose its lead, bitcoin has no chance to be the dominant cryptocurrency again. Bitcoin development should get in a constructive way or there is a bad future waiting for bitcoin.

shinratensei_

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Quote from: RGBKey on October 12, 2017, 05:10:10 PM

I don't think it's attracting the "wrong" people, I just think that it's starting to attract the non cryptophiles and such. I think Bitcoin can continue to grow slowly, it's not gonna just jump up to 20k overnight.

Nope, i understand about the OP is trying to say about the bitcoin are attracting those are a greedy person just like some parties wants to fork the bitcoin more and more. This did not about grow of the bitcoin itself, but the bitcoin is in the wrong way if there will be another fork in the future, bitcoin is not the crypto to generate the money just like another altcoin.
And so this is attracting wrong people.

Rozita

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What you mentioned is one of my concerns about bitcoin too. But I think you shouldn't be such disappointed about future of Bitcoin. Segwit can be solution and in any situation Bitcoin will grow even slowly. And I don't think there is a problem with new investors. Bitcoin is profitable and what is the problem when they are causing bitcoin to be more expensive?

dead_m92

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Yes i remember those times, but you should know that without those people bitcoin would be still be worth $1000, because that kind of people makes bitcoin more famous, and this makes bitcoin rise because more people will invest. A lot of people only invest in bitcoin because they are getting profits, and it happens with everything.
A lot of people buy gold to "hold" money, and some only buy to get "profit", but most people only want quick money, and it happens with everything, they dont care about how it works, they only want money, and that is all.

RGBKey

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I don't think it's attracting the "wrong" people, I just think that it's starting to attract the non cryptophiles and such. I think Bitcoin can continue to grow slowly, it's not gonna just jump up to 20k overnight.

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