Topic: Bitcoin IS basically DESTROYED - page 35. (Read 47245 times)

So the world is basiscally destoryed as well because China is producing the majority of all the products that we use in our daily lifes?

I don't care if China controls most of the mining market, if people do care about that, they can purchase the mining power and start mining. The problems is that it is much cheaper to do in China, so I expect that mining will even be outsourced to China and other Asian countries to save costs.

China is unstoppable on a lot of things and will rise to become even bigger than it is now. Numbers alone are in their favor, with 5-6 times the amount of people living there.

Originally BTC mining was supposed to be wildly democratic so that anyone with a PC could mine and, with millions mining, it would be difficult for any large entity to acquire enough horsepower to overcome the masses.

Unfortunately, the hashing algorithm Bitcoin used for proof of work was easily translated to hardware so instead of a large democracy of people mining using their at-home hardware we have a few large geographically centered (China) mining consortiums controlling 80%+ of the mining. Right now it is China but a US organization could certainly take over.

The problem actually started with GPU mining since very few users had a GPU powerful enough to mine coins. This dramatically constrained the possible pool of miners. With specialized ASICS mining, it has gotten much worse.

Really need a mining algorithm that can't easily be accelerated by GPU's or custom chips.

It is rather good for Bitcoin, if a lot of people in China have some bitcoins, it means they want to try to bring it mainstream which we all want such a thing, the price will go higher and higher and Chinese will be rich, but I don't care about that. I dont think they will destroy bitcoin the most beautiful project in the internet for me. I only hope in a higher usage of bitcoin of many many online e commerce sites as this would be the greatest victory for bitcoin.

China, USA or even Zimbabwe having the largest share of hash power does not concern me at all, what it should concern us all is how they intend to promote bitcoin in higher usability which will benefit us all in the end.

What says to me that something is wrong isn't that the mining is being done in China.  After all, in China you get taxpayer money for converting electricity to Bitcoin so that was just going to happen. 

What says to me that something is wrong, is that >90% of the Chinese mining, while technically distributed through three pools, is all happening in the same data center, on machines owned by the same business interest.

What you mean is they're stealing a shitload of money. 

Taxpayer money converted into electricity by government-owned power utility.

Electricity converted into bitcoin and bitcoin into privatized money by miners.

In China bitcoin mining is essentially just a channel to steal tax money.  The fact that it hasn't been forced to shut down or use non-subsidized electricity by now is probably evidence that someone is taking bribes.  (What a surprise!  That NEVER happens in China!   )

Better than having the americans controlling mining.

Yep satoshi didn't saw this coming.
Its natural for the Chinese to get every penny from the internet. if they have controlled bitcoin, I'm not going to be suprise if they can also do this to ETH and the rest of the coins that are coming. It seem like China is out to control the world.

i think that bitcoin its only the start point, when the times comes the digital currency will create the next sucesor altcoin

China being China. I do not see a problem here.

Anyone with a basic brain could predict this would happen. Go, go, China!

Why would it make a differene if btc is centralized in Us or UE instead of China?

So if China owns a large portion of the system, we're doomed? But what if bitcoins are centralized in America or in Europe? It's going to be an entire story, right? I mean, once again western power has an influence to this point.

I really don't care because I agree with you and many of us still don't sell our Bitcoins because if it goes mainstream in China or even a little popular, we'll be all rich/millionaires. The whole idealistic anarco utopia many still think Bitcoin is long dead, that's why Ethereum and other cool projects are emerging (even if they end up having the same fate eventually).

It's become popular to point at centralization in china as justification of introducing new coins. If any coin becomes popular enough to warrant investment by the chinese they are willing to invest in that too. So to use this as an excuse or justification is somewhat meaningless. Any coin ends up in the wallets of the willing. Basically just a marketing tactic.

And do what? Destroy bitcoin? It is illogical, they would be the one hurting the most. Chinese miners are not stupid - they too want to earn money in a long run.
Messing with bitcoin network like that would cause huge price drop - therefore miners profit will be lowered.

I am speaking on behalf of TPTB_need_war aka AnonyMint, who is quoted in the OP, because he is currently banned for 9 more days due to calling theymos and gmaxwell out on their censorship of a potential technical back door in Bitcoin. There is a simpler explanation of Satoshi's obviously intentional technical error. It is obviously intentional because it was quite well known by 2009 that the HMAC formulation is more secure yet Satoshi used the more suspect double hashing everywhere in BitCON.

I will be editing this post and adding answers and rebuttals to the various incorrect posts that litter this thread. Please check back and read this post, because I will not be posting again in this thread, and instead I will edit this post to add new information as others continue to make posts that need to be refuted.

Please quote my post because the mods will probably delete it and ban me again.


Segregrated Witness is not the problem. The problem is that Blockstream is sneaking in a new soft fork versioning protocol at the same time. This new versioning protocol when combined with collusion with China's oligarchy control over mining, will insure together the elite can change the protocol of Bitcoin at-will any time. Why do you think Blockstream has received $70+ million in investor funding from the financial community. Blockstream has no viable way to make a profit. The company exists as a way to take control over Bitcoin. Note that Classic and XT didn't really solve the centralization problem either, but at least they didn't hand soft fork versioning control to the devil.

They will send their propaganda machine here to discredit me. They always do that. Then they ban me. They don't want you to know the truth. I don't care anymore. You fools are doomed. This is my last post on this matter. I have other programming work to do. It is up to you fools to get organized and stop being useless eaters and cattle for the elite. I can lead you to water, but I can't teach your dumb asses to drink. I tried to teach, but I get drowned out by the trolls and propaganda who are hired to keep the truth from you.


First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.


Here is a link to the cryptocoinnews.com article and also an estimate follows in the linked thread. Realize that is just one former cattle farmer who currently mines 50 of the 1200 BTC per day and he plans to increase that to 200 BTC of the 600 mined per day after the halving. Just one cattle farmer will be mining 30% of Bitcoin.


With an oligarchy in control of the mining, they can choose to increase transaction fees to the maximum the market can bear, not the competitive rate for transaction fees. They could also work together with Blockstream to increase the 21 million coin limit, so they can earn more coins. None of this would hurt Bitcoin, because obviously none of you care. You will suck BitCon's cock because you think it is a "better gold" as Satoshi advertised it to you in the white paper.

Additionally these mega mining farms in China don't attain their loans and nearly free electricity without returning favors to the elite who are in charge. In effect, this means Bitcoin has become just another fiat system. They can KYC identification requirements on it the future and pretty much do what ever they want. And you will lick their balls because you have no other choice. Don't tell me you will switch coins, because no other coin will have the adoption and mining security.

I find it really hilarious how you think you are supporting something that will change the world in a better way, yet it is just more of the same oligarch controlled BS that we've always had.



A billion aren't mining, only a few very well connected few. An oligarchy is taking form. The coins are only going to a few oligarchs


They want to maximize their profit and be in control of their destiny.


It isn't just the pools that are the problem, but that the mining farms are large and concentrating the 51+% amongst a few oligarchs. This will only grow more centralized over time, because TPTB_need_war explained in his technical analysis, that profitable proof-of-work always accrues over time to maximum economies-of-scale. There are several reasons for that including propagation advantages of being the first to win more blocks, so don't waste hashrate mining on the wrong fork for a short period, which over time gradually depletes the other miners of relative profits. It is more complex than that. You need to read his entire analysis to understand.


That is an incorrect understanding. As I explained above, the mining hashrate economically accrues to those miners with the greatest economies-of-scale. No one can buy mining equipment to offset that, because the miners in China are ostensibly getting nearly free electricity and nearly 0% interest loans. It is a corruption charged to the collective. Don't you understand how Communism works? We have this system now in the West too. Capitalism is dead. Long live Marxism!



Exactly. You guys don't care whether Bitcoin ends up as a totalitarian digital hell. You only care about making a profit hell or highwater, come what may.


Why are you building a strawman argument to deflect the debate away from the important issue. Obviously it doesn't matter where the oligarchy on mining is located. The only thing that matters is that profitable proof-of-work will always end up entirely centralized. TPTB_need_war has explained why this is the case because he an expert on the economics and technology, despite what some trolls might want to mislead you to believe.


And that will only happen because of my work to fix the jamming problem that plagued all DE designs. The trolls want to ridicule me, and I don't yet get the recognition. But that is okay. I just want you to know the truth.


Finally someone with a brain stem! Congrats!

Yeah it is more of charging the expenses to the collective and keeping the profits for themselves. Same as the banksters did with the bailouts.

$1 million of your investor money every day going to those fat cats. And circulating back around as $70 million in grease money for Blockstream to rape you with.


Yeah why care if the banksters keep the profits and charge the bailouts to the people. Love that Communist/Fascism, don't you?


Yeah it was great when the banksters stole the bailouts from the government! Excellent logic.  

Good to see you want BitCON to be all about stealing. Nice world you want to promote.


You haven't studied the history of oligarchies. They can only act one way. Give it a little time. The collusion is taking form. By the time, you realize it, it will be too late to do anything about it or to change. Bitcoin will be too well established by that time, just like fiat is now. You will bend over and take in your ass, because you didn't think it was a problem when I told you and then when you realize you will have no more choice nor options to pursue.

Yes, it's a waste of time. Unfortunately the people on the anti-decentralization and anti-privacy front use all means of manipulation. If their lies are not refuted, the public might be mislead into thinking that they are true. The problem is that many people - even within the community - are easily attracted to false promises (e.g. bigger blocks = more growth = more profits) and scared by absurd doomsday scenarios.

Remember when the XTCoin fud (spearheaded by Andresen and Hearn) started? People were screaming that if blocks get filled Bitcoin would collapse. A shiny extrapolation graphic was widely circulated, indicating an alarmingly red bitcoin death zone. Now we are past that alleged breaking point with zero negative impact - instead Bitcoin Core developers found an intelligent and resource-sensitive way to allow more growth.

ya.ya.yo!

Not our own greediness, o neither mine. I'm not using any apples phone neither their services. So, I'm not included to it.
Chinese labor it a bit too cheap for US' labor for manufacturing their own good.

We don't have to theorize on what would happen. GPU mining, for example, never became centralized in China despite the lower electric costs there.

This is the truth and reality. That if we want to stop these greediness of chinese people.
Stop using and buying their goods, but one of the biggest brand of phone, Apple is of the customers of Chinese, and they are Apple's manufacturer,

They don't need to subsidize anything. Just sell superior hardware. Those that have access to cheap electricity will figure out the rest.