Bitcoin is becoming a black hole - page 2.

Gabi

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If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on September 15, 2013, 04:11:37 PM

Quote from: tclo on September 15, 2013, 04:06:47 PM

Yes just use Electrium or Multibit and don't bother downloading the bloated blockchain.

Adding a 3rd party service will increase number of links in our technology chain. That's not good. I'll find a better computer, not really a big problem, just a funny one.

Is this a joke? Bitcoin Qt client is for people who wants to run a full node, not for people who wants a semi-cold wallet. Multibit or Electrum is the perfect solution for you and it is secure

Quote

I mean "to validate new blocks faster than they are mined". I do understand how Bitcoin works, unlike u, my friend. Look at this picture, it's worth a thousand words:

http://s18.postimg.org/l3xbclvqh/stats.png

But as we said tons of time, the problem is not "validating blocks" but validating the transactions. Even if the time between blocks become 1 minute, the time to validate the whole chain does not change.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: tclo on September 15, 2013, 04:06:47 PM

Yes just use Electrium or Multibit and don't bother downloading the bloated blockchain.

Adding a 3rd party service will increase number of links in our technology chain. That's not good. I'll find a better computer, not really a big problem, just a funny one.

tclo

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Yes just use Electrium or Multibit and don't bother downloading the bloated blockchain.

polrpaul

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Love the Bitcoin.

too blique .. cheer up, it's only BTC Tongue

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: notme on September 15, 2013, 03:42:27 PM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on September 15, 2013, 02:17:42 PM

Quote from: will1982 on September 15, 2013, 02:15:09 PM

Why do you need QT on a low end computer?

For reliable semi-cold wallet.

I don't understand why you would need to download the blockchain for a cold wallet.

It's a semi-cold wallet. It will be switched on time to time to transfer funds.

Quote from: Kazimir on September 15, 2013, 03:54:06 PM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on September 15, 2013, 07:55:34 AM

It seems to me that my computer downloads/verifies blocks at the rate that is lower than the rate they are mined.

Seriously, do you think the cause of this situation is with Bitcoin (thus a majority of users would experience this), or with your particular computer?

1st blocks were downloaded and validated very fast, so it's Bitcoin that is becoming a black hole.

Quote from: Kazimir on September 15, 2013, 03:54:06 PM

Quote

I believe I would outpace the generation rate but advent of ASICs made the situation worse and now I have to switch to a more powerful computer.

The coming of ASICs, or the total hashing rate of the entire Bitcoin network for that matter, has absolutely NOTHING to do with this whatsoever.

What exactly do you mean with "outpace the generation rate"? Huh

The generation rate is 1 block per 10 minutes, by definition. Do you even understand how Bitcoin works?

I mean "to validate new blocks faster than they are mined". I do understand how Bitcoin works, unlike u, my friend. Look at this picture, it's worth a thousand words:

notme

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Quote from: Kazimir on September 15, 2013, 03:54:06 PM

What exactly do you mean with "outpace the generation rate"? Huh

The generation rate is 1 block per 10 minutes, by definition. Do you even understand how Bitcoin works?

He's trudging through the peak of transaction volume that occurred about 5 months ago during the bubble/crash. His computer can't process those transactions at the rate they were accepted by the network, so time-wise he is further behind. Hopefully it will catch up in the lull, but current transaction rates have been high again recently.

Do you even understand how to have a constructive discussion without taking a hostile tone?

Kazimir

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on September 15, 2013, 07:55:34 AM

It seems to me that my computer downloads/verifies blocks at the rate that is lower than the rate they are mined.

Seriously, do you think the cause of this situation is with Bitcoin (thus a majority of users would experience this), or with your particular computer?

(Hint: title should be "my computer is becoming a black hole")

Quote

I believe I would outpace the generation rate but advent of ASICs made the situation worse and now I have to switch to a more powerful computer.

The coming of ASICs, or the total hashing rate of the entire Bitcoin network for that matter, has absolutely NOTHING to do with this whatsoever.

What exactly do you mean with "outpace the generation rate"? Huh

The generation rate is 1 block per 10 minutes, by definition. Do you even understand how Bitcoin works?

notme

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Quote from: QuantPlus on September 15, 2013, 03:49:02 PM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on September 15, 2013, 11:47:14 AM

Quote from: arruah on September 15, 2013, 11:38:38 AM

use electrum

I had a bad experience with Blockchain.Info API, so I don't trust services on the Internet. Local full client is the only option.

I fired up the client today... and blockchain corrupted.
This kind of primitive behavior is a killer.

And after running mostly fast Alt Coins for a few weeks...
The one hour confirmation cycle for BTC is another killer.

Cellphones are rapidly replacing PCs...
Something will come along and blow BTC back into the Stone Age...
It will survive just fine, but be like Gold hoarded by paranoid inbreds.

http://thegenesisblock.com/bitcoin-0-8-5-released-provides-critical-bug-fixes/

tl;dr upgrade or add this:

Code:

-checklevel=2

Alt coins are likely still vulnerable to the type of transaction that can cause this breakage.

QuantPlus

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on September 15, 2013, 11:47:14 AM

Quote from: arruah on September 15, 2013, 11:38:38 AM

use electrum

I had a bad experience with Blockchain.Info API, so I don't trust services on the Internet. Local full client is the only option.

I fired up the client today... and blockchain corrupted.
This kind of primitive behavior is a killer.

And after running mostly fast Alt Coins for a few weeks...
The one hour confirmation cycle for BTC is another killer.

Cellphones are rapidly replacing PCs...
Something will come along and blow BTC back into the Stone Age...
It will survive just fine, but be like Gold hoarded by paranoid inbreds.

notme

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Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on September 15, 2013, 02:17:42 PM

Quote from: will1982 on September 15, 2013, 02:15:09 PM

Why do you need QT on a low end computer?

For reliable semi-cold wallet.

I don't understand why you would need to download the blockchain for a cold wallet.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: will1982 on September 15, 2013, 02:15:09 PM

Why do you need QT on a low end computer?

For reliable semi-cold wallet.

will1982

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Why do you need QT on a low end computer?

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: notme on September 15, 2013, 01:31:01 PM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on September 15, 2013, 01:12:03 PM

OK, guys, here is an easy question:

Alice has 10 blocks, each block contains 10 transactions. Bob has 5 blocks, each block contains 20 transactions. Who will validate the blockchain faster?

There will be a difference of 5 hash calculations. The expensive part is the transaction signature verification, which will take the same amount of time in both cases. Even a Pentium III can do 390 thousand block hashes per second. In other words, if the needed data was in memory, it could validate every block hash in the chain in under a second.

I see. I took into account timings of a Java utility that validates blockchain following lazy evaluation approach. It verifies signatures only if inputs were moved within few last blocks, otherwise it relies on assumption that the rest of the Bitcoin network wouldn't continue a chain containing a block with incorrect signatures. Satoshi's client ought to verify everything.

Now back to the topic. I continue downloading the blockchain on the netbook, perhaps I'll see an effect similar to quantum tunneling when some particles escape a black hole barrier.

notme

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on September 15, 2013, 01:12:03 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on September 15, 2013, 12:26:37 PM

2. Most of the time that computer validates ~~blocks~~ transactions.

FTFY.

OK, guys, here is an easy question:

Alice has 10 blocks, each block contains 10 transactions. Bob has 5 blocks, each block contains 20 transactions. Who will validate the blockchain faster?

There will be a difference of 5 hash calculations. The expensive part is the transaction signature verification, which will take the same amount of time in both cases. Even a Pentium III can do 390 thousand block hashes per second. In other words, if the needed data was in memory, it could validate every block hash in the chain in under a second.

bbit

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Bitcoin

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on September 15, 2013, 11:47:14 AM

Quote from: arruah on September 15, 2013, 11:38:38 AM

use electrum

I had a bad experience with Blockchain.Info API, so I don't trust services on the Internet. Local full client is the only option.

^^ I agree with this.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on September 15, 2013, 12:26:37 PM

2. Most of the time that computer validates ~~blocks~~ transactions.

FTFY.

OK, guys, here is an easy question:

Alice has 10 blocks, each block contains 10 transactions. Bob has 5 blocks, each block contains 20 transactions. Who will validate the blockchain faster?

Jan

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on September 15, 2013, 08:12:11 AM

This computer was supposed to be used as a semi-cold wallet, if it's unable to handle new blocks then it's better to use another one.

Buy a cheap secondhand Android phone and do like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pDSzOiFgIk

Gabi

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If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

The number of blocks doesn't matter with so small differences, what matter are the transactions

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: keatonatron on September 15, 2013, 12:21:29 PM

I don't know why some people have so many problems/complaints with downloading the blockchain. I recently installed Armory, and I had the whole blockchain downloaded in around 2 hours.

I assume your internet connection is just slow.

But, as others have said, your logic is fallible. 100 transactions will take the same amount of time to download whether they are in 10 blocks of 10 transactions, or 5 blocks of 20 transactions. Mining speed has nothing to do with it. Also, if you sent an ASIC back in time, the increase in hashing power would cause the Bitcoin network to increase difficulty to maintain the 10 minutes/block speed, so nothing would be different (except the one guy with the ASIC would own all the bitcoins. Ha.)

1. My connection is used hardly on 10%.
2. Most of the time that computer validates blocks.
3. U r correct about an ASIC in the past, difficulty would be just adjusted accordingly, but right now new ASICs are added each second, that why we have less time between blocks.

keatonatron

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Jack of oh so many trades.

I don't know why some people have so many problems/complaints with downloading the blockchain. I recently installed Armory, and I had the whole blockchain downloaded in around 2 hours.

I assume your internet connection is just slow.

But, as others have said, your logic is fallible. 100 transactions will take the same amount of time to download whether they are in 10 blocks of 10 transactions, or 5 blocks of 20 transactions. Mining speed has nothing to do with it. Also, if you sent an ASIC back in time, the increase in hashing power would cause the Bitcoin network to increase difficulty to maintain the 10 minutes/block speed, so nothing would be different (except the one guy with the ASIC would own all the bitcoins. Ha.)

Topic: Bitcoin is becoming a black hole - page 2. (Read 6123 times)