Topic: Bitcoin is not a currency and this is why. (Read 4123 times)
By same logic as OP, many government issue banknotes/bills have not been currency for a long, long time, except in isolated communities. They just go in and out of banks and tills, get recorded in ledgers whether handwritten or electronic, the value maybe forwarded by check or wire to head office. Then forwarded back as paychecks. But the specific pieces of "currency" may never complete a loop. If that is the definition, then currency isn't currency. If all we're concerned about is the value completing the loop, then bitcoin is part of many loops.
One thing
It's digital currency
It's digital currency
Quote
A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online
payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a
financial institution.
payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a
financial institution.
Yeah in reality you are right, I just like playing devil's advocate sometimes..... along with a little LARPING at trolling.
If paper money backed by 1's & 0's on some banksters screen is used as currency........
I Believe in bitcoin as a network and a currency because its so veristile and amazing blockchain it can be used for danm near anything i just wish it was 2011 again and I was a smarter person back then lol but wishin aint goin make it happen hehhe heres to a great 2015 for all you bitcoin involved folk !!
legendary
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It is funny that the first "real" crypto-currency, that can actually claim to be a "real" currency in that it is exchanged in a loop, might not be Bitcoin but the crypto of Ecuador. Until now they have been using the USD, but now they will have a blockchain currency. One can only assume that it might be locked in to the USD, which will be very interesting indeed. The ramifications of having a digital blockchain USD equivalent, might really shake up the the cryptosphere.
http://cointelegraph.com/news/113208/ecuador-officially-launches-its-own-e-money-system
http://cointelegraph.com/news/113208/ecuador-officially-launches-its-own-e-money-system
where does it say it is a blockchain currency?
This is extracted from the Nakamoto's paper:
Say again BTC is not a currency and you're hiding the truth.
Quote
A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online
payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a
financial institution.
payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a
financial institution.
Say again BTC is not a currency and you're hiding the truth.
Yeah..!! I agree.!! I take BTC as currency n I use it like one.!
"I decided to fact-check myself and I (found) that Bitcoin was actually larger than some national currencies ... We've been moving up the list, if you look at the total value of all the bitcoins in circulation versus the total value of other currencies, we're up to 20 or 40 national currencies that are smaller than Bitcoin. As Bitcoin gets bigger and we move up that list, we're on the path to Bitcoin being a serious world currency." - Gavin Andresen
There are many very small currencies that are controlled by very small countries. I wouldn't say that it would be a very big feat to be larger then these currencies. What would be a meaningful feat would be to grow enough so that bitcoin is larger then more major economies and currencies.
"I decided to fact-check myself and I (found) that Bitcoin was actually larger than some national currencies ... We've been moving up the list, if you look at the total value of all the bitcoins in circulation versus the total value of other currencies, we're up to 20 or 40 national currencies that are smaller than Bitcoin. As Bitcoin gets bigger and we move up that list, we're on the path to Bitcoin being a serious world currency." - Gavin Andresen
There are many very small currencies that are controlled by very small countries. I wouldn't say that it would be a very big feat to be larger then these currencies. What would be a meaningful feat would be to grow enough so that bitcoin is larger then more major economies and currencies.
"I decided to fact-check myself and I (found) that Bitcoin was actually larger than some national currencies ... We've been moving up the list, if you look at the total value of all the bitcoins in circulation versus the total value of other currencies, we're up to 20 or 40 national currencies that are smaller than Bitcoin. As Bitcoin gets bigger and we move up that list, we're on the path to Bitcoin being a serious world currency." - Gavin Andresen
Of course there's a loop. I can buy something from you, you can buy bitcoin mixing service from bitmixer and then bitmixer can pay me for advertising.
It is funny that the first "real" crypto-currency, that can actually claim to be a "real" currency in that it is exchanged in a loop, might not be Bitcoin but the crypto of Ecuador. Until now they have been using the USD, but now they will have a blockchain currency. One can only assume that it might be locked in to the USD, which will be very interesting indeed. The ramifications of having a digital blockchain USD equivalent, might really shake up the the cryptosphere.
http://cointelegraph.com/news/113208/ecuador-officially-launches-its-own-e-money-system
http://cointelegraph.com/news/113208/ecuador-officially-launches-its-own-e-money-system
It is possible that bitcoin will never become a full-fledged currency. But judging by the latest news in the next few years the role bitcoin as a means of payment will gradually increase.
There may be a lot more people thinking of Bitcoin as an investment.
But as its utility as a currency (stable unit used to transfer value) increases, its value will increase.
But as its utility as a currency (stable unit used to transfer value) increases, its value will increase.
The only reason that bitcoin's price "should" increase is due to its limited supply.
However, this isn't relevant until 2140 or so.
Not at all. If the demand outstrips the supply the value should go up also. Imagine what will happen when the bitcoin reward gets halved and there's quadruple the amount of bitcoin users as there is now...
There may be a lot more people thinking of Bitcoin as an investment.
But as its utility as a currency (stable unit used to transfer value) increases, its value will increase.
But as its utility as a currency (stable unit used to transfer value) increases, its value will increase.
The only reason that bitcoin's price "should" increase is due to its limited supply.
However, this isn't relevant until 2140 or so.
WIP
One of the things that makes Bitcoin's value so volatile - if consistently rising in price - is its very limited supply. $200 million has been spent on equipment to mine BTC, whereas all BTC in existence (and even that which has been lost) has a value of $4.3 billion at current exchange rates. (These exchange rates are not very deep, subject to some level of manipulation by holders of BTC, and also do not reflect lost bitcoins.)
This very tight money supply does give bitcoin an edge in retaining value. However, it is a serious impediment to adoption as a money supply. In order to be currency, a coin needs to be in high circulation. It needs to have acceptance and be in usage. While the bitcoin money supply is as tight as it is, this is very difficult for bitcoin to accomplish.
The Federal Reserve of WIP has a moderately loose target for the ease of the WIP money supply over time. A moderate level of inflation will spur investment and usage of WIP. For example, for inflationary reasons, I would greatly prefer to keep my WIP with the CBIP (the first accredited bank in the Federal Reserve of WIP trading system, and independent of the Federal Reserve of WIP), at a moderate interest rate, than to keep it directly on the ledger without any interest rate and lose value directly to inflation.
Secondly, by having a central policy that enables lending of WIP at reasonable interest rates - a central goal of the Federal Reserve of WIP - it can be one of the only coins actually available to borrowers who have some productive usage of them.
In both of the above senses, bitcoin currently fails. While it is undoubtedly a currency in which the BTC remittance network is denominated, as a practical currency it has a difficult fight for adoption.
This difference will be easier and easier to see as our policies unfold.
We welcome any of your thoughts in the meantime.
Best regards:
Chairman of the Federal Reserve of WIP
This very tight money supply does give bitcoin an edge in retaining value. However, it is a serious impediment to adoption as a money supply. In order to be currency, a coin needs to be in high circulation. It needs to have acceptance and be in usage. While the bitcoin money supply is as tight as it is, this is very difficult for bitcoin to accomplish.
The Federal Reserve of WIP has a moderately loose target for the ease of the WIP money supply over time. A moderate level of inflation will spur investment and usage of WIP. For example, for inflationary reasons, I would greatly prefer to keep my WIP with the CBIP (the first accredited bank in the Federal Reserve of WIP trading system, and independent of the Federal Reserve of WIP), at a moderate interest rate, than to keep it directly on the ledger without any interest rate and lose value directly to inflation.
Secondly, by having a central policy that enables lending of WIP at reasonable interest rates - a central goal of the Federal Reserve of WIP - it can be one of the only coins actually available to borrowers who have some productive usage of them.
In both of the above senses, bitcoin currently fails. While it is undoubtedly a currency in which the BTC remittance network is denominated, as a practical currency it has a difficult fight for adoption.
This difference will be easier and easier to see as our policies unfold.
We welcome any of your thoughts in the meantime.
Best regards:
Chairman of the Federal Reserve of WIP
There may be a lot more people thinking of Bitcoin as an investment.
But as its utility as a currency (stable unit used to transfer value) increases, its value will increase.
But as its utility as a currency (stable unit used to transfer value) increases, its value will increase.
A sustainable loop = currency
no loop = investment/commodity
With a currency I can give a token to a man at a market selling produce. He can use it to pay school fees for his child. The school can give it to the teacher for teaching, and then the teacher can give it back to me. Then the cycle starts again.
Bitcoin isn't really like that right now. Yes, sometimes people pay for things in Bitcoins, but far more often Bitcoins are either 1. held (hodl), or 2. used as a mediator from fiat -> bitcoin -> fiat, or 3. sometimes when we are lucky fiat -> bitcoin -> purchase at one of the few places accepting bitcoin -> fiat.
There simply is no loop yet.
Someday it is possible that Bitcoin might make the jump from commodity to currency, and I do think it will happen, but I am doubtful that will happen in 2015.
no loop = investment/commodity
With a currency I can give a token to a man at a market selling produce. He can use it to pay school fees for his child. The school can give it to the teacher for teaching, and then the teacher can give it back to me. Then the cycle starts again.
Bitcoin isn't really like that right now. Yes, sometimes people pay for things in Bitcoins, but far more often Bitcoins are either 1. held (hodl), or 2. used as a mediator from fiat -> bitcoin -> fiat, or 3. sometimes when we are lucky fiat -> bitcoin -> purchase at one of the few places accepting bitcoin -> fiat.
There simply is no loop yet.
Someday it is possible that Bitcoin might make the jump from commodity to currency, and I do think it will happen, but I am doubtful that will happen in 2015.
What about people who put their money in a bank and don't spend it until retirement. derp.
bitcoin is still a currency coz it can be used in paying or sending money to someone
so by your definition paypal and western union are currecny as these can be used to pay for things and send value to someon
paypal and western union are not currency.. they are just money services businesses.. the currency that western union and paypal "service" is fiat,.,,,,, and its the fiat that is the currency..
a person, computer, business that does the transfering is not the currency... the item/product/data being transfered IS. for instance if i was to give u $10.. does that make me the currency.. no.. i just hold/and transfer the currency without being the currency myself..
so paypal/WU are not currencies. they are just holding/exchange SERVICES
bitcoin the protocol (software GUI) is not a currency, it is a service.
bitcoin the blockchain ledger signed transaction is the currency.
it does not matter for what reason bitcoins are being swapped. or by whom they are being swapped with.. as long as a collective of a few people atleast treat bitcoins as having a value then it becomes a currency.
anything can be a currency as long as people agree it has a value and an ability to swap between different owners
bitcoin
bit = digital
coin = currency
built to be used as a currency
bitcoin = digital currency
who cares if you hold, trade, invest
it is still a currency
wow
This is like saying
I do not use my house to live in, I rent it out therefore it is not a house
people trade the us dollar and hold it, invest in it, does this mean when they do this it is not a currency
bit = digital
coin = currency
built to be used as a currency
bitcoin = digital currency
who cares if you hold, trade, invest
it is still a currency
wow
This is like saying
I do not use my house to live in, I rent it out therefore it is not a house
people trade the us dollar and hold it, invest in it, does this mean when they do this it is not a currency
my house is not a place to live in. It's a place to shower, to watch TV, to read, to fap, to sleep to get on my computer, to walk around, to sit, to fuck, to fart, to eat.....
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