Topic: BITCOIN IS NOT A STORE OF VALUE - page 4. (Read 958 times)

1. The energy infrastructure can't support all cars being electric, so just forget that from happening.
2. The worldwide PoW ban is coming , no matter what fantasies you have in your head.

Pretending the entire world energy output is on a single grid is one of the delusions you should part with.

Pay attention:
The time of abundance is over, this means less energy , less finance, less food, and a lot less people.
Proof of Waste can't survive except in a time of abundance.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/24/macron-warns-of-end-of-abundance-as-france-faces-difficult-winter

FYI:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-26/here-s-what-europe-is-doing-to-reduce-energy-consumption-for-winter#xj4y7vzkg
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/egypts-cabinet-approves-plan-ration-electricity-save-gas-export-2022-08-11/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/15/kosovo-stops-import-of-electricity-and-begins-energy-rationing
https://time.com/6209272/europes-energy-crisis-getting-worse/
https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20220829-french-pm-says-companies-may-face-energy-rationing-this-winter
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/23/china-is-facing-another-power-crunch-but-this-time-its-likely-to-be-different.html
https://slate.com/technology/2022/07/texas-power-grid-electricity-ercot-abbott-heat.html

Ignoring the energy supply problem, will not make it go away.
PoW mining will be banned to save as many people from dying as possible from the harsh winters and burning summers that are coming.


You think, Governments are going to turn off lights, & shut down industries,
but allow BTC PoW mining to draw down the ever decreasing energy resources 24x7.
Wake up, the people will go burn down the PoW mining warehouses for heat before that happens.

try to do some math
work out the KWH of a electric car doing just 20miles a day(normal use)
multiply that by how many cars need to be electric soon

then realise that cars would require MORE electric than bitcoin mining industry
..
the bitcoin asics are getting far better at efficiency than an electric car can get
in the 8 years (2014-2022) of asics.
going from a 3.25kw GPU rack of a couple GHASH
to a asic of 3.25KW achieving ~158,000Ghash. in just 8 years
is alot better then the car batters 5% more efficient per generation/year

over the last year alone bitcoin hashrate has remained around the 200exa amount
but the electric has changed from about 80thash for 3.25kwh
to be ~158thash for 3.25  (~255 for 5.3)

meaning HALF the amount of electric, less amount of physical asics to still have 210exa network

math and a calculator are far more superior than a article/youtube video with bias

That is completely different from "selling random objects for broken phone parts". Broken phone parts are not a currency or a store of value (and it would take a fool to believe that).


Now you are just straight-up lying.

Here is at least five instances of gold being seized from their rightful owners. Just because their government could. How are you going to react to this, pull an Alex Jones and declare Wikipedia to be a conspiracy theory?


Bitcoin can only be seized if you reveal the private key to the would-be seizers.

The fact is, law enforcement and hackers alike cannot brute force even a 160-bit address. They will never be able to brute-force a 256-bit private key even if they turned the sun into a Dyson sphere.

You are always welcome to ask law enforcement and Chainalysis to crack Satoshi's private key at https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/1A1zP1eP5QGefi2DMPTfTL5SLmv7DivfNa, they would be very happy to seize the coins (but they will never be able to because they will never find the private key with "chain analysis").


22. And something tells me that you are the one acting like a 12yro around here, because although I have not found any references citing this as a crime, you are entering into grey territory by melting the serial numbers off, putting a big target on your head by the government. Imagine trying to move that gold around, and customs see it.

Nobody would take that risk, especially since there is a less suspicious way of doing that (Bitcoin). Which, despite all your rambling about chainalysis, the truth is that they can not identify a single bitcoin trail until it reaches a KYC exchange. They can only label an ID on them (and even my little C++ Turing-complete programs can do that).

Here we go again. Just FYI, everything in life happens for a reason and is all connected or interconnected to each other's development. If humans didn't exist then... I guess you know the rest. It is because we existed every other thing that will aid human existence existed and this view of Gold and Silver being used to develop whatever assisted in Bitcoin creation does not take away what Bitcoin is and as far as I am concerned, there is no correlation in this.

Vacation time,  

What you don't know:
Baby Boomers are cashing out to US$,
this means,
Past Performance is No Guarantee of Future Earnings.
Also the so called army of btc holders is going to get absolutely crushed by the inflation of energy & food costs, and it will get worse for the next few years.
Selling of BTC is going to be far below the energy cost to mine it.
As one analyst put it, Bitcoin is nothing more than a dumpster fire in the coming environment.
BTC PoW mining will be banned worldwide within ~2½ years,
because the people are going to raise ever lovin cane about btc miners driving up energy rates when the people rate is going to triple.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the demographic /financial / energy / food collapses are all just starting and Proof of Work is just too flawed to survive it.
The abundance of the past is over, now begins the time of hardships, and struggles such as your generations has never known.
It sucks, but the time of abundance is up.  

I expect nothing from you, so save your moral pretense for those dumb enough to hold btc to zero.

FYI:
Start a Garden, if you want to Live, because Winter is Coming, and she is going to be a real bitch from now on.

1. control your own keys = security
    custodian your value = risk..

he used the mtgox(custodian) which is nothing to do with using your own key security.. so first fail on him not understanding bitcoin principles

2. 'stable of price' is not the same as 'store of value'..  price and value are not the same number/thing

so second fail on him not understanding bitcoin . and first fail on not understanding economics

3. he thinks more retailers accept gold as payment than bitcoin. not true
i guy food, gadgets, and other daily lifestyle stuff in bitcoin, yet those same retailers wont accept gold

4. as for gold.. he claims bitcoin seizures are more common than gold
governments seize more gold than bitcoin per year
lets take india. it seized 9.8billion RS of gold in 2019 ($128m)
but india has not seized >$128m in btc
india reported in 2019 they seized less than $2m of bitcoin (60x less)

People generally sell broken phones and computers and other electronics for parts, ebay is a prime example. In many cases people save the broken PCB's to extract the precious metals...

Gold has never been actually physically taken from citizens here in the USA, and even if they tried, people can come up with alot more creative ways of hiding them that make it not worth it for the government to even try...

Bitcoin can in fact be seized, if hackers can steal it, then the government can steal it... with alot more ease than physically trying to find someones precious metals....
https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/04/22/seized-silk-road-bitcoin-to-clear-ross-ulbrichts-183-million-debt/

Bitcoin is on a public ledger, even if you coinjoin or mixed, chainalysis can work with law enforcement and seize them... You're not really hiding anything, your obfuscating, and they can easily figure that out.

As a matter of fact, you're a genius... if only humans invented this thing called a smelter to melt precious metals down so there wouldn't be any serial numbers.... Cmon bro, what are you like 12?

I don't know what happened to you but looking at your previous posts here, you used to be make very rational arguments. But now you appear to be in complete "clown car" (to borrow a phrase from TECSHARE) mode. What the heck happened with you?

You know the bear market is only temporary, that bitcoin has recovered from every single price recession and has surpassed the peaks of previous halvening cycles even in current bear conditions, so why are you repeating the FUD of nocoiners?

I suggest you go buy some BTC before 4 years from now you wished you listened to my advice and bought some while it was still available for $20K...

I expected better from you.

Bitcoin
Scam  √
GetRich Scheme √
Full of ConMen  √

So are you going to cover the losses of anyone that purchase btc at $60K, and it fell to $20K.
Since you want to be the fiat-btc price fairy.
If not , I guess that means you are one of the con-men.


 

FYI:
So are you going to cry fud when the World Governments all Ban PoW mining. 

See, people like you are the reason prospective buyers have been warned by newspapers not to buy bitcoins in the early years, thus missing their chance to get free bitcoins, and are now busy making scammy altcoins that pump&dump investors in an attempt to make themselves rich.

And as long as you continue on that path, there will be ever more conmen making scamcoins just to get rich quick.

Some people got rich , and do you know how,
they sold a large chunk , if not all of their bitcoins.

Dummies that keep holding, eventually die and their coins are lost, and they never prosper from bitcoin at all.
Most people won't share their private keys even with family, so coins are lost.

And if you can't see BTC is pure gambling, you are going to end up one of the people that go home with nothing.  
Vegas-Baby!

For those confused out there, their is no price fairy that guarantees the BTC price per coin won't go to zero.
If BTC devs keep ignoring the coming Government Proof of Waste mining bans, zero is the only price BTC will be worth.

...that can NOT be recovered from the components unless you use hazardous metal extraction methods from the components such as liquefying them.

There's a reason why more end of life electronics end up in the landfill than in extraction laboratories. Because the cost to extract the gold from there is greater than the value of gold that is to be recovered. Besides it makes a lot of water pollution doing that anyway.


And even you admit that they cannot be recovered. So why then, are people not using phones and PCs as a currency?   Because they have none of the properties of one, that's why.

PS. Gold can be confiscated!

Bitcoins cannot be confiscated!

Because they can be moved to a wallet whose private keys are owned by someone in another country.

So your point about gold being untraceable is irrelevant. I can simply CoinJoin my bitcoins and all traces will be broken.

You, on the other hand, can't CoinJoin your gold or silver, can you? No, because you can bet your bullions that they have serial numbers engraved on them.

Worldwide, the ANNUAL manufacture of high-tech products (PCs, cell phones, tablet computers and other electronic and electrical devices) uses some $21 billion worth of gold and silver (320 tons and 7,500 tons, respectively).

What you're proposing is in fact, ridiculous. $21 billion/year isn't negligible. That's just in electronics alone, not counting all it's many other real world uses where it cannot ever be recovered once it's used. Once it's been put into electronics if those electronics are thrown away, the precious metals that were used in said electronics can never be recovered.

I just don't see how people can bother arguing about precious metals, they have and always will be stores of value that NOTHING man made will ever replace. They were here since the beginning of time, and will be here until the end of time. I'd like to see a person create something better than nature. It's yet to happen. I'll place my bets with nature as the winner, no contest. Keep living in fantasy land.

That's ridiculous. Gold and silver are good electrical conductors, and that's the only reason they are used in electronics. Bitcoin is not an element that's why you don't see any bitcoin in your electronic equipments.

The value of the quantity of gold and silver inside your device's is negligible, and for all practical purposes is much less than 1 mBTC.

Governments are auctioning off bitcoin to fools like you, while purchasing precious metals in record breaking numbers... Are you being willfully ignorant of the facts? Google how much Gold China has purchased, or Russia...

There's a reason why they are selling it to you... To track everything you do. You're about to lose the little bit of anonymity that cash brought, now that they are phasing cash out and going digital, you'll be 100% spied on and you don't even seem to care...

At least Gold and Silver still offer 100% privacy. Don't even start with monero or dash that. Its all been reverse engineered. And at the very least they can be censored by ISP's via government regulation. Tell me all about how bitcoin works outside the system, until it didn't... Funny how that story suddenly sank like the titanic.

Just look at what we are doing with BTC today, we trade, buy something using BTC and keep it in our wallet. When we fund the charity foundation using BTC, it is accepted so it's got to be more than just a store of value. Regardless of what this guy is saying, digital assets will be adopted and will be used widely that governments today are grabbing.

"Store" of "Value"

A store is a place for something. Value is the worth we assign something. An object with value has some kind of tangible worth.

It may be food. It may be real estate. It may even be a collectible, in which case the value is more subjective than objective.

You may see value in a Picasso. I may not. In a zombie apocalypse, you may still see value in that Picasso, but I will prefer the objective value of a bazooka (with things to shoot from it).

If something has value, it can be exchanged with another person for something of value - and it isn't always the same thing that gets exchanged.

Money can be exchanged for food, for example.

Food can be exchanged for guns, and so on.

Suppose you live on a farm. You can harvest food from that farm. The farm remains a store of value as long as you produce food. In fact, everything involved with growing and harvesting that food is a store of value because every item is needed to create the food.

Aluminum is a store of value. We need aluminum to make some of the machinery to farm the land. Water, seeds, land - these are all stores of value.

So, if something is going to be a "store of value", it should hold that value under all but the most remote of circumstances. Its objective and subjective value may fluctuate, but over the long term, it will maintain much of that value.

The real estate market crashed in 2009, but it has recovered. Over the long term, real estate not only holds its value but its value also increases. That's because the land has many ways that value can be extracted from it, and because there is a finite amount of it. The value of that asset is stored.
Bitcoin Is Not A Store Of Anything

Bitcoin has no intrinsic value. It is not backed by any asset. It has no collectible value. It isn't even a tangible thing you can hold in your hand. It's vapor, living out there as 1s and 0s.

Talk about a ghost in a machine!

Bitcoin is not a store of or for anything. If it is a store of value, I should be able to convert fiat currency into bitcoin and bitcoin will maintain that value.

That does not happen.

Here's Bitcoin's track record at maintaining the value of US dollars over the last 3 ½ years.

https://ibb.co/mczqpm5

That chart is not maintaining anything. It's incredibly volatile.

Bitcoin's volatility is why it is not a store of value. It is also not a store of value because nobody needs it. Gold and Silver have always remained reliable stores of value, because they are needed and used the world over.

Maybe you believe that "one day" Bitcoin will stabilize and become a store of value.

Great! But why would you hold any Bitcoin until that day arrives?

If that day comes, what if it ends up at a 1-1 exchange ratio with the US dollar and you bought it at $8,569? Not only will you have realized Bitcoin wasn't a store of value, but you'll also be poor, and very angry.

You will also have opportunity cost - what you could have earned with that money while you "maintained" it in Bitcoin.

Means of Exchange
I want to make it clear that there is a big difference between being a store of value and being a means of exchange.
Currency is not a store of value. It is a means of exchange. Currency does not retain its value because of inflation. MONEY on the other hand, (which is gold), always maintains it's purchasing power.

Bitcoin is a means of exchange, but not a reliable one.

The problem is that it is a worse means of exchange than any other stable country's currency because of its volatility.

By the time you execute a currency conversion into bitcoin, and then into another currency, there is no guarantee the value will be maintained during the exchange (discounting commissions). "Hence, exactly why bitcoin is not a store of value".

Not really sure what you mean, you're talking about gambling, investing in Bitcoin isn't a gambling, period.
Even Bitcoin price will dump 80% from the current ATH, you still have 20% in USD rate and you could sell it if you want, you're not lost everything.

Many early adopter who mine BTC in the early days are have good life and become a billionaire, the reason why their coins get lost is they think it's worthless so they didn't make any back up. Now when Bitcoin already worth for $20.000/each, many people already back up and tell their family about their private key.

That's the nature of precious metals, noble above all, almost all devices such as electronics use precious metals, everything created by the ruler of nature is useful for human life, not the same as Bitcoin created by humans, only useful for some humans, not all of them can feel Bitcoin, but precious metals, all of them.

What are you trying to say here? Would have been better if you explained a little what's happening on the video instead of making us go through the whole video.

But right now, at the current state, bitcoin is a store of value. People are using it more as a store of value than as a regular currency for making day to day transaction. Look at how many people are holding bitcoin and how many of them made a good fortune out of it. Maybe in the future when bitcoin and crypto currencies become main stream, people will use it as a regular currency.