Bitcoin is useless or is it? - page 14.

JanpriX

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Buy The F*cking Dip

Quote from: loiterin9 on May 14, 2017, 03:06:01 AM

With transaction costs rising above $1 the original promise of cheap remittance using Bitcoin is officially dead. Without utility Bitcoin use is limited to speculation only and even further what is there to speculate about?

I would like to debate this and gauge the community's response to Bitcoin experiment.

Fees are indeed above $1 if you want your transaction to get confirmed easily but don't forget that BTC's price is sky high right now. The $1 fee is still cheap if you will compare it to BTC's price as of the moment. It is not officially dead and will not be. People recognizes BTC as a real currency now and it is being adopted by many people day by day. Also, I'm always willing to pay high fees because at least, I have full control on my money (in BTC) compared to what I have in a centralized banking system.

Xester

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Quote from: mamaya on May 15, 2017, 06:17:54 AM

Yeah bitcoin is currently failing as a currency, however for remittances it is still cheap. 1$ for a remittance is cheaper than you will find anywhere else, especially for cross border remittances. And bitcoins price has always been based on speculation, its worth what its worth because people are willing to pay that price, not because they are buying anything tangible.

Bitcoin is no longer cheap since the fees per transaction have rose up to three dollars (3 $). But it does not mean that bitcoin is useless it is still useful. Another factor causing the fees to rise up is the increased in value and the increased in the blockchain traffic. Nevertheless we can see bitcoin going up in value and let us just make bigger transactions if small transactions has also large fees the same with huge transactions.

DoublerHunter

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Bitcoin will not be useless because of its reputation that is already built and also a lot of people using bitcoin and they believe to the things that bitcoin can do like being widely accepted and also use as a daily basis currency. Bitcoin is very useful in a lot of ways like being a source of income, savings and also investment at the same time.

White Christmas

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Quote from: ekoice on May 14, 2017, 05:58:07 AM

Even with high fees,bitcoin is still used and would be used in future also for transactions.It would be better if there is lesser fee but people will not go to altcoins for this reason.

Yes, high fees right now is just a problem in bitcoin but when it solved i am sure that naby people will say that its not useless instead they are going to say that bitcoin is very useful. Time will come that high fees will turn in to low.

gentlemand

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The company to look to when it comes to actual usage is Bitpay. And by the sounds of it they're busier than ever. It does look like they're moving more into B2B type stuff than retail. If you compare the options for businesses looking for international transfers Bitcoin would still be the best option if fees were $30-40. I hope it doesn't get to that stage though.

mamaya

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Yeah bitcoin is currently failing as a currency, however for remittances it is still cheap. 1$ for a remittance is cheaper than you will find anywhere else, especially for cross border remittances. And bitcoins price has always been based on speculation, its worth what its worth because people are willing to pay that price, not because they are buying anything tangible.

szpalata

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How can you ridicule or rundown Bitcoin as useless because there's increase in transaction fees. I thought increase in transaction fees is directly proportional to increase in Bitcoin value or prices so why badmouth it in the first place? It is never useless and has never been to some of us.

micher143

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Quote from: ekoice on May 14, 2017, 05:58:07 AM

Even with high fees,bitcoin is still used and would be used in future also for transactions.It would be better if there is lesser fee but people will not go to altcoins for this reason.

i agree, it will not become useless just because of high fees. someday it will get low because of many bitcoin users who are pushing to make the fees low for a better and more transactions.

BlackMarket

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Neither bitcoin is useless now nor it will be in future as it holds a great value which makes it unique from other currencies and most of the people who knows bitcoins are making good money from it and when it comes to money it can never be useless but only will help you in different ways.

SingAlong

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Quote from: Russlenat on May 15, 2017, 02:16:31 AM

for me it is not useless and bitcoin now is proven its function in digital world and used in every country
bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are now known globally and now increasingly is value.

A useless currency will not be used by everyone, so bitcoin is a very useful money for everyone, it has a great influence on the economic strength of some countries.

You can call Bitcoin useless if it doesn't have any value but since Bitcoin has been valuable even at this moment and tomorrow and the next day the value of Bitcoin is still present though the rising unconfirmed transaction pushed the users to spend more with the fee but it is a choice actually if you are in need of that money then you ought to pay a higher fee to receive it faster but if not then you can just wait for it.

UCHCHILD

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For me, I guess bitcoin will never be useless but will come to more and more progress because as we can see despite of having high transaction fees the volume of users still increasing and more daily it is because of its good feature and it will.never be beaten just because of having high transaction fees. It is our choice to choose if we put high or low fee but then consequence for that will follow, like putting low or zero fee leads to slow transaction but if you put higher fee you can receive it in a moment after sending it.

L00n3y

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In my own view Bitcoin is not useless. I've decided to step up on this field because my mom is the only one supporting me. I used to work on construction and storage rooms and having sideline world on a fast food chain. Then a friend of mine told me that he is earning online through Bitcoin , that's why I decided to be here.

It's not useless to people who make Bitcoin as a sideline works especially students. Just being online and having a good internet connection is enough. Bitcoin help many people like in the third world countries. It maybe useless to the legal world money system but it's not useless to someone who desperately need money in everyday lives.

coynedterm

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Quote from: loiterin9 on May 14, 2017, 03:06:01 AM

With transaction costs rising above $1 the original promise of cheap remittance using Bitcoin is officially dead. Without utility Bitcoin use is limited to speculation only and even further what is there to speculate about?

I would like to debate this and gauge the community's response to Bitcoin experiment.

actually this is the competition to confirm the Bitcoin transaction speedly, usually the most of the Bitcoin paying high fee for the fast confirmation .
So here if you want confirm your transaction of Bitcoins fast then you also need to enter in this competition of a paying high fees .
And secondly hair is nothing bad like to pay fee about $1 or more because Everything depends upon the number of inputs of the transaction and their outputs of the transaction for the particular amount of the Bitcoins that we want transfer from one wallet to another one.
Here I am saying about 0.00025 BTC( less than 1$) for the better confirmation and I am also getting the same and Never Getting disappointment with this amount of fee , so always pay the high fees during the transaction.

deisik

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Quote from: Reid on May 15, 2017, 04:04:42 AM

Quote from: deisik on May 15, 2017, 01:29:44 AM

Quote from: Amph on May 15, 2017, 12:41:03 AM

Quote from: btcforall777 on May 14, 2017, 11:56:23 AM

If bitcoin is useless, then explain why literally billions of dollars are flowing into it. The market determines the value. The market has spoken. You are wrong.

because the market don't care about the fee, the value you are seeing on the market is based on trading on exchange, which don't need to move any bitcoin, they are always there on the exchange and changed for fiat or changed back to bitcoin all the time

I tell essentially the same all the time

And many traders still move their coins in and out of exchanges, though they certainly prefer not to use the blockchain and thus not to depend on miners and how soon, or rather late their transactions are going to be confirmed. Whenever there is a possibility I, for one, prefer to use payment vouchers which are close to instant and pretty cheap (at times, you even get paid some dust for using a specific payment channel)

I will just go with wallet exchanges. We pay the same and yet they make it faster rather than blockchain.
I dont know what is wrong with the blockchain but it is seems like there are a lot more transactions that are being made there.
Coinbase does have a faster one with a 59k sats fee.
It is okay for me if everything will be done smoothly.
The only problem is country restrictions and unsupported ones.

I don't quite understand what you refer to here

Interwallet transactions are free and they are instant because the actual coins don't move anywhere. The web wallet internal accounting has nothing to do with the blockchain. When you pay the fee, a transaction from a Coinbase wallet (or any other wallet, for that matter) hits the blockchain in the usual way, i.e. it gets confirmed by the miners as any other transaction. So there is no way how it could be faster (provided all other things, e.g. transaction fee, remain the same, of course)

Reid

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Quote from: deisik on May 15, 2017, 01:29:44 AM

Quote from: Amph on May 15, 2017, 12:41:03 AM

Quote from: btcforall777 on May 14, 2017, 11:56:23 AM

If bitcoin is useless, then explain why literally billions of dollars are flowing into it. The market determines the value. The market has spoken. You are wrong.

because the market don't care about the fee, the value you are seeing on the market is based on trading on exchange, which don't need to move any bitcoin, they are always there on the exchange and changed for fiat or changed back to bitcoin all the time

I tell essentially the same all the time

And many traders still move their coins in and out of exchanges, though they certainly prefer not to use the blockchain and thus not to depend on miners and how soon, or rather late their transactions are going to be confirmed. Whenever there is a possibility I, for one, prefer to use payment vouchers which are close to instant and pretty cheap (at times, you even get paid some dust for using a specific payment channel)

I will just go with wallet exchanges. We pay the same and yet they make it faster rather than blockchain.
I dont know what is wrong with the blockchain but it is seems like there are a lot more transactions that are being made there.
Coinbase does have a faster one with a 59k sats fee.
It is okay for me if everything will be done smoothly.
The only problem is country restrictions and unsupported ones.

bearex

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Every time i end up using Bitcoin, i am dissapointed. If you dont put a fee of at least 60 cents, it takes like forever. This is outrageous! If i pay from my bank with wire payment, the fee is 42 cents up to something like 10k$ ! But when i send Bitcoins, i pay a 60 cent fee on a $20 payment.
This is way too much.
But if you send a fee of like 20 cents, which is still a rather high fee, when paying small amounts, the transaction takes forever and you are left in fear of the transaction never confirming. Sure, the more you send the cheaper (in percents) the fee gets.

But other than the high fee, it works great! I really like to use it as a payment option.

Russlenat

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for me it is not useless and bitcoin now is proven its function in digital world and used in every country
bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are now known globally and now increasingly is value.

deisik

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English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Quote from: Amph on May 15, 2017, 12:41:03 AM

Quote from: btcforall777 on May 14, 2017, 11:56:23 AM

If bitcoin is useless, then explain why literally billions of dollars are flowing into it. The market determines the value. The market has spoken. You are wrong.

because the market don't care about the fee, the value you are seeing on the market is based on trading on exchange, which don't need to move any bitcoin, they are always there on the exchange and changed for fiat or changed back to bitcoin all the time

I tell essentially the same all the time

And many traders still move their coins in and out of exchanges, though they certainly prefer not to use the blockchain and thus not to depend on miners and how soon, or rather late, their transactions are going to be confirmed. Whenever there is a possibility I, for one, prefer to use payment vouchers which are close to instant and pretty cheap (at times, you even get paid some dust for using a specific payment channel)

Amph

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Quote from: btcforall777 on May 14, 2017, 11:56:23 AM

If bitcoin is useless, then explain why literally billions of dollars are flowing into it. The market determines the value. The market has spoken. You are wrong.

because the market don't care about the fee, the value you are seeing on the market is based on trading on exchange, which don't need to move any bitcoin, they are always there on the exchange and changed for fiat or changed back to bitcoin all the time

therefore it doesn't matter what fee there is they don't need to move their bitcoin too much, the fee will onyl prevent the so called average joe to use bitcoin, in the future if nop fix will be reached

megynacuna

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I beg to differ with OP, on the contrary Bitcoin is very useful now than ever. It's been so in demand and since countries and banks have started adopting it tells the whole positive story. The fees were never made to be constant and so it will adjust as and when Bitcoin gains more value or devalue. This is the reason why I don't agree with the OP to call it useless.

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