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Topic: bitcoin island bootcamp *scam* (Read 2947 times)

legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 4458
June 23, 2013, 08:00:29 PM
#28
you say your info is readily available.. but at request of this readily available information, you decline to pass over such readily available information

copied from his bitcoin island self modded thread before he deleted it

he does not want investors. because that involves repaying them at some point.

he wants "contributors" .. in otherwords.. donators to just hand him 300BTC each ($30,000)
where on this planet would anyone hand over $30k free and clear to someone that refuses to reveal their identification.

and here is the end bit. what the contributors get in return

Incentive - Contributors receive proportional discounts on rentals
More Incentive - Contributors of 100 BTC or more receive VIP invitation to inaugural beach bash
http://bitcoinisland.org/

so he wants to be the land owner, and rent property out.

the main question everyone has. what makes him so sure that he is the right guy to take other peoples money, become the land owner and lead the project. to only offer contributors a party invitation and discounts. the contributors should be GIVEN a allotment of land which is valued at the percentage of funds put into the project vs land size of island.

it was also mentioned in his 2012 effort that if the 100,000BTC target was not reached he would refund the contributors
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.911455

he then locked the thread may 21st 2012 knowing that no rich 'contributor' would be in their right mind to just give him $30k with no substantial return/perks.

No refund has been received back to the 2012 contributors even though that campaign failed.
http://blockchain.info/address/1SLAND4JQt2mhypA6cR7TSh2UunW4NU4y
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
June 23, 2013, 05:55:16 PM
#27
all it will take to quash this accusation is the revealing of your personal information (due dilegence) no one is asking for the business secrets

Frank, this is just becoming repetitive.  I have made it clear from my first response to you that my personal information is readily available.

Frank, obviously I don't have any control over the trolls on this forum.  But if you can use your internet detective skills to find my number, you're welcome to call me and we'll talk about it.

You know who I am.  This is my real name.  My address and phone number can be easily found.  This community knows a lot more about me than any of us know about you.

At this point, you are obviously not acting in good faith.  You haven't substantiated a single one of your claims.  I don't feel obligated to answer any more of your questions.
legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 4458
June 23, 2013, 05:01:17 PM
#26
Let's all just take a minute to review Frank's position.

he is scamming the community. by asking the community for funds!

Frank is an investor.  He has lots of money.  Enough to "buy an island outright" even.

Therefore, anyone who attempts to side-step Frank's investment services is a scammer, ipso facto.

the quote above if you included the whole context is about YOU doing this to THE COMMUNITY. i was emphasising in that post that it was not a personal attack between you and me, but about helping the community.

i dont wish to be involved with you. and i do not attempt to do this to wager a better deal with you either. i do this as you do not have a product to sell, have not shown any proof of your knowledge or experience in undertaking a future project in this area, so it would be like throwing money into a burning fire.

i do not mind that you keep your secret technologies under NDA. but keeping basic due diligence information such as who YOU are is a red flag to anyone in the community.

especially since people in 2012 asked those exact same questions about YOU and you locked the thread. now you wish to only reveal YOUR personal info for a 3BTC fee. and the requirement of an NDA, which requires the payee's to reveal their personal info just to sign a NDA.

that to me sounds ridiculous.

all it will take to quash this accusation is the revealing of your personal information (due dilegence) no one is asking for the business secrets
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
June 23, 2013, 04:20:48 PM
#25
Let's all just take a minute to review Frank's position.

he is scamming the community. by asking the community for funds!

Frank is an investor.  He has lots of money.  Enough to "buy an island outright" even.

Therefore, anyone who attempts to side-step Frank's investment services is a scammer, ipso facto.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
June 23, 2013, 03:55:22 PM
#24
now imagine this scenario:
"great offer for 300BTC a ASIC miner that will revolutionise bitcoin. to find out more please pay 3BTC and give me all of your personal details so i can write up a legally binding NDA. before you pay me 3BTC, have given me your details and attended a meeting i will not tell you anything about my experience, knowledge, personal details or the details of the technology. i will not respond to questions regarding my personal informationas that is irrelevant. if you want to get answers pay 3BTC"

would you hand over $300(3BTC) without asking a single question? just to be informed about this great offer

It depends.  If BFL was the one running the offer, then hell no!  Their reputation is terrible when it comes to things like this.  But if it's from a friends company, or someone who I know about and trust, then yes, I might decide to pay the money to get first in on the opportunity.

I don't know who benjaminedees is, I've never dealt with him, and as such, I would not take his offer.  But that's not to say that there are plenty of people who do know him and trust him and it should be their prerogative to take their offer.

And I agree, this is a scam accusation thread, and I've definitely seen worse attempts at accusations (the one against John K comes to mind) and you have every right to accuse anyone of a scam.  But I think that at this point, we don't have enough evidence to elevate this to the level of scamming quite yet.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
June 23, 2013, 03:29:45 PM
#23
I think "pending" would be accurate.
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
June 23, 2013, 03:01:48 PM
#22
well thats why this thread is called a scam accusation and not a scam verified thread.

So, are you going to attempt to substantiate any of your claims, or just continue to use this thread as leverage to negotiate for an investment deal that doesn't actually exist?

Quote from: franky1
obviously you don't realise that im a investor that could actually buy an island outright and in full..

Should we go ahead and change this to a "scam accusation debunked" thread?
legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 4458
June 23, 2013, 08:26:47 AM
#21
well thats why this thread is called a scam accusation and not a scam verified thread.

informing others that someone has things to hide atleast highlights a person so that people can then do proper checks instead o just taking the information given at face value.

this thread is for warning people of potential threats.. hense the word accusation.

if infact it was verified as a scam. which would only happen AFTER the fact. the person scamming would (well used to) get a scammer tag or removed from the forum.

its about making people aware that certain people asking for money upfront are not as upfront about themselves..

prevention is better then cure and warning people that this is a risk is the whole point.

now imagine this scenario:
"great offer for 300BTC a ASIC miner that will revolutionise bitcoin. to find out more please pay 3BTC and give me all of your personal details so i can write up a legally binding NDA. before you pay me 3BTC, have given me your details and attended a meeting i will not tell you anything about my experience, knowledge, personal details or the details of the technology. i will not respond to questions regarding my personal informationas that is irrelevant. if you want to get answers pay 3BTC"

would you hand over $300(3BTC) without asking a single question? just to be informed about this great offer
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
June 23, 2013, 03:31:30 AM
#20
again we as a community are not asking for your secret technology. we only seek basic due diligence information about YOU and about how trustworthy YOU are to be handling 3BTC-300BTC BEFORE having to hand over 3BTC


DO NOT TELL US THE SECRET TECHNOLOGY

but please reveal:
1)who you are
2)what your knowledge is in these area's:
a)real estate
b)construction
c)utility companies
d)leadership skills
e)laws and permits required for a,b,c
f)laws and permits revolving around local eco-systems of an island (EG rare species protection)

do not answer/ignore the questions purely on the bases of me.. but on the bases of the whole community that may wish for a bitcoin island to actually exist


It sounds like there are things he wants to keep secret and things he wants to reveal.  If he doesn't reveal certain things and you think not revealing those things to you makes it unacceptable for you to take this risk, then no one is forcing you to buy into this.  Other people may do their homework and think that this is something they are willing to pay for.  But I don't think that withholding some information rises to the level of a scam.  You have to evaluate this member's contributions and see if you think it's something you are willing to pay for.  But as long as he delivers what he says he will, it's not a scam.

There are many publishers that will offer bookstores the opportunity to have the first shipment of a book, but not tell the bookstore what the book is or sometimes even who the author is.  It's up to the bookstore to do the research behind the company to see what they have produced in the past to see if this is likely going to be a good gamble (for example, having Oprah's newest book for 2 weeks before anyone else does is great for sales...) or not (having my book that I wrote in MS word for 2 weeks before anyone else does won't make you a cent!).  Withholding information does not make something automatically a scam
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
June 23, 2013, 02:12:14 AM
#19
but that requires the other 29 people to pay up money

I honestly have no idea why you keep referring to "29 people".

You don't get to just continue to erect endless, fraudulent strawmen for me to have to defend myself against.  Substantiate any one of your claims or shut the fuck up.
i don't have strawmen.. i have my real name which i use for business.. and i have this pseudonym as an out of hours name to seek out projects

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Quote
after locking the thread in 2012 many would have expected the funds of 1SLAND4JQt2mhypA6cR7TSh2UunW4NU4y to have been refunded.........

I'm happy to return any of those Bitcoins to anyone who requests them.  No one has.

I am at least glad that you have taken the time to learn the reason that the original thread was closed.  Does this mean that you're retracting this portion of your scam accusation, that I am a scammer because I closed a thread primarily pertaining to a time-limited auction?  That would be progress at least...
legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 4458
June 22, 2013, 06:39:38 PM
#18
again we as a community are not asking for your secret technology. we only seek basic due diligence information about YOU and about how trustworthy YOU are to be handling 3BTC-300BTC BEFORE having to hand over 3BTC


DO NOT TELL US THE SECRET TECHNOLOGY

but please reveal:
1)who you are
2)what your knowledge is in these area's:
a)real estate
b)construction
c)utility companies
d)leadership skills
e)laws and permits required for a,b,c
f)laws and permits revolving around local eco-systems of an island (EG rare species protection)

do not answer/ignore the questions purely on the bases of me.. but on the bases of the whole community that may wish for a bitcoin island to actually exist

legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 4458
June 22, 2013, 06:18:14 PM
#17
You know who I am.  This is my real name.  My address and phone number can be easily found.  This community knows a lot more about me than any of us know about you.
And now you're stalking me?  And you want to lecture me on my political ideology?  What the hell is wrong with you?  Is this your motivation for trolling my threads and defaming me?

well your failure to just answer the questions as part of the active thread, would then require people as standard due diligence BEFORE paying out any money to try finding out some basic information..

if you want to call basic due diligence stalking then this is you getting defensive that you dont want people looking at you in detail.

requesting between 3BTC-300BTC is reason enough for anyone to require checking into you.

The rest of your questions are either completely irrelevant, or will be disclosed only under NDA and in person at Bitcoin Island Boot Camp.

but that requires the other 29 people to pay up money before knowing much about you or being called a stalker for trying to do some due diligence because you fail to disclose fundamental information that is not part of your secret technology, thus not requiring the NDA

But, be honest.  You aren't interested in Bitcoin Island.  You merely enjoy making a hobby of trolling Bitcoin-related projects on these forums.  You think that, since you can get away with hurling endless insults at posters like 'Finshaggy', you can do the same to me.  It's disgusting, really.  I'm not sure why it has been tolerated for so long.
actually i am very interested in bitcoin community projects. I have donated, invested and simply self funded many projects to aid bitcoins mainstreaming efforts and positive promotion. but what i do hate is people requesting funds without atleast answering the basic questions to atleast make the project look like it will succeed.

If we can get close, I have an investor who may be able to put us over the top.

Twist:  that investor was me.  Since the crowd-sourced donation effort obviously failed, I've decided to take another approach.  The fact remains that I have never solicited investment for Bitcoin Island, and I don't intend to any time soon.  Once again, your behaviour here is a perfect example of the reason I don't want to deal with investors.

the crowd sourcing effort of 2012 failed due to your lack of answering peoples questions or showing the exerience needed to make the project work. then exactly one year later, you attempt the same strategy again.. and yet again fail to answer the basic of questions which would not breach your NDA in regards to your secret technology

libel.
That is fairly impressive for only one day's research.  And on a weekend, too.  Do you have a lawyer on call?  I can tell you that my knowledge of libel comes from working for law firms.  Does yours come from defaming people often?
for a libertarian that believes in freedoms and also the law of the land where a crime is only a crime if someone is injured. you certainly want to threaten legal proceedings based on insults..

as a possible town mayor of the future.. you need to grow a thick skin as you will receive many insults.. i would love to see you arrest your residences because they don't like your attitude.

aswell as purely self modding/locking and ignoring posts as soon as anyone starts asking fundamental questions.

False.  I locked the original post when you started defaming me right off the bat.  I even linked it in the new post for anyone to see.

you locked the 2012 thread for reasons unrelated to me..
the 2013 thread you self modded and selectively deleted me, and atleast 4 other people.

there were 5 other quotes but he deleted their comments.
False.  I have only deleted posts from you and one other poster (your sockpuppet that you quoted above).

 i only managed to screen capture one guys posts to then quote later. after you deleted it but i could also count 3 others i was unable to screen capture/quote.
none of them were my sock puppets, and basing the fact that me being able to quote others is simply because my screen capture button is faster then your delete button. not because they are sock puppets of me.

it seems that you have learnt to delete any scam accusers on your own threads this year so that you can keep trying to get the 3BTC-300BTC off of people

Once again, you are an expert on everyone else's projects, despite having the least clue about them.  None of this is true.  

its easy for you to say substantiate when you fail to offer any information to confirm or deny. this is standard practice of a scammer.

You don't get to just continue to erect endless, fraudulent strawmen for me to have to defend myself against.  Substantiate any one of your claims or shut the fuck up.
i don't have strawmen.. i have my real name which i use for business.. and i have this pseudonym as an out of hours name to seek out projects which can actually help the community. and to also help the community when an obvious scammer is present.

to add to this. your use of the term strawman instantly makes any legal knowledge you pretend to have uncreditble. the term strawmen came about fairly recentlydue to a whole youtube movement of people claiming to be freemen, obeying only the law of the land and not the law or corporate policing/government. it came about as part of the 'aunt sally' term which started in the UK within the last few years. to me it makes you sound more like a youtube anarchist as soon as you used the word strawman.

(back to the 2012 island idea)
that being said. with yourself being the main investor.. why didn't you just buy an island in 2012 and now say.. hey guys i got an island.. lets do this.
answer: becasue you do not have the funding.

and my last point. the 2012 thread you mentioned that any funds given to the http://blockchain.info/address/1SLAND4JQt2mhypA6cR7TSh2UunW4NU4y bitcoin address which if the project did not go through within a timely fashion. you would give the person a refund minus a small admin percentage.

after locking the thread in 2012 many would have expected the funds of 1SLAND4JQt2mhypA6cR7TSh2UunW4NU4y to have been refunded.........
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
June 22, 2013, 04:57:37 PM
#16
You know who I am.  This is my real name.  My address and phone number can be easily found.  This community knows a lot more about me than any of us know about you.

The rest of your questions are either completely irrelevant, or will be disclosed only under NDA and in person at Bitcoin Island Boot Camp.

But, be honest.  You aren't interested in Bitcoin Island.  You merely enjoy making a hobby of trolling Bitcoin-related projects on these forums.  You think that, since you can get away with hurling endless insults at posters like 'Finshaggy', you can do the same to me.  It's disgusting, really.  I'm not sure why it has been tolerated for so long.

have never once "sold seeds".
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/selling-tomato-seedlings-5808

Still not seeds.  But since you are concerned with farming experience, there you go:

he has no expereince of farming

Quote
aswell as purely self modding/locking and ignoring posts as soon as anyone starts asking fundamental questions.

False.  I locked the original post when you started defaming me right off the bat.  I even linked it in the new post for anyone to see.

Quote
there were 5 other quotes but he deleted their comments.

False.  I have only deleted posts from you and one other poster (your sockpuppet that you quoted above).

Quote
and lastly. my personal sentiment..
for a person that dislikes government control, laws and wants a free country with libertarian principles.. coming up with the BS about libel and courts, shows he has no clue. if you wants freedom away from laws and hide behind pseudonyms to grab bitcoins for a real estate project that deals in only FIAT (bitcoins are only useful at project completion). then don't expect laws to then protect you.

Quote from: franky1
from reading his posts (yes i read every post over the many years of this guy)

And now you're stalking me?  And you want to lecture me on my political ideology?  What the hell is wrong with you?  Is this your motivation for trolling my threads and defaming me?

Quote
for a island to be purchased, fiat is needed upfront. and then bitcoins used in the later phases once people on the island want to trade their time for bitcoins. (mega flaw in his plan he did not answer to)

Once again, you are an expert on everyone else's projects, despite having the least clue about them.  None of this is true.  You don't get to just continue to erect endless, fraudulent strawmen for me to have to defend myself against.  Substantiate any one of your claims or shut the fuck up.
legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 4458
June 22, 2013, 10:48:24 AM
#15
i have made it free and clear what is required to reduce the chances of being a scam.

ignoring the last paragraph of my last post and emphasising the questions above it

DO NOT TELL ME THE SECRET TECHNOLOGY

but please reveal:
1)who you are
2)what your knowledge is in these area's:
a)real estate
b)construction
c)utility companies
d)leadership skills
e)laws and permits required for a,b,c
f)laws and permits revolving around local eco-systems of an island (EG rare species protection)

do not answer/ignore the questions purely on the bases of me.. but on the bases of the whole community that may wish for a bitcoin island to actually exist

lets wait and see how the reply goes
legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 4458
June 22, 2013, 04:48:04 AM
#14
Once again, I have absolutely zero interest in dealing with investors for Bitcoin Island.  I have made this clear from the very beginning.

the very beginning. lets start there.

I'm not sure where you live that you think this is acceptable behaviour.  It certainly isn't in the UK, which has rather strict libel laws.
lol you have no clue about law. especially hiding behind your pseudonym and ignoring any requests to reveal your true identity, knowledge or experience. which means any insults to "benjamindees" are not related to the writer behind the screen of this pseudonym or his personality/character in real life. because you ignore any attempt to establish a link to the name on the birth certificate of the accused. thus making insulting "benjamindees" the same as any other fictitious character.

a prime example would also be when, even if there was a link to your real life identity. by insulting "benjamindees" would still not land me in court for libel.

and with that i will say: Tony Stark AKA Iron man is a paedophile. now lets see how long robert downy Jr takes to get me in court. afterall everyone knows the link between the two names.(point being RDJ won't take me to court because Tony Stark is ot his birth name, and neither is "benjamindees")

have never once "sold seeds".
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/selling-tomato-seedlings-5808

aswell as purely self modding/locking and ignoring posts as soon as anyone starts asking fundamental questions. he tries to twist the answers .. EG

Does this venture, by any chance, require the transfer of funds to a trusted party?

It requires transferring Bitcoins in order to purchase a lot.
selective removal of the word trust

as for other people spotting the holes and accusing him of being a scammer:
I can't believe how many scammers show up in this forum.  
..
What's even more interesting is the fact that people are actually entertaining this poster.

there were 5 other quotes but he deleted their comments.

and lastly. my personal sentiment..
for a person that dislikes government control, laws and wants a free country with libertarian principles.. coming up with the BS about libel and courts, shows he has no clue. if you wants freedom away from laws and hide behind pseudonyms to grab bitcoins for a real estate project that deals in only FIAT (bitcoins are only useful at project completion). then don't expect laws to then protect you.

for a island to be purchased, fiat is needed upfront. and then bitcoins used in the later phases once people on the island want to trade their time for bitcoins. (mega flaw in his plan he did not answer to)
legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 4458
June 22, 2013, 03:59:30 AM
#13
Is this still going on?  He's told you he doesn't want your money.  How is he scamming you if he's not taking your money???
he is scamming the community. by asking the community for funds!

just because he now says he refuses to take money from one person does not make him legitimate.

he claims he is not asking for any money. yet is asking for 3BTC for his 'dry test' and 300BTC for the actual project.
there have been 6 people that have requested basic fundamental questions. not about the technologies he is supposedly selling under NDA that the island requires. but purely about this guys own knowledge/experience and background.

a scam is not just about after the fact. its also about spotting the scams before they happen.

EG when you receive an email saying you have won the Nigerian lottery and all they request is a small deposit to validate the lottery win and cover administration costs.

would anyone say it is not a scam and actually allow others to blindly pay into such an obvious and known scam. would you honestly and morally tell a friend or family that it is ok to deal with such a scenario

if this person wants to seek funds from people then he should reveal such basic of information.

sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
June 22, 2013, 02:40:39 AM
#12
Is this still going on?  He's told you he doesn't want your money.  How is he scamming you if he's not taking your money???
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
June 22, 2013, 02:37:25 AM
#11
They don't do scammer tags any more.

Well, that's just fantastic.  No wonder the trolls have been running the asylum lately.
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
June 21, 2013, 11:42:28 PM
#10
Im going to do a write up on bitcoinscammers.com  If this is a scam other will come forward.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
June 21, 2013, 05:25:08 PM
#9
They don't do scammer tags any more.

You just give him negative trust feed back and if I trust you, it effects the score I see for him.

Of course, if I don't trust you, it don't mean diddly.
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