Bitcoin isn't complicated but the fiat system is!

Abiky

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Quote from: stompix on July 05, 2024, 11:48:28 AM

Good luck explaining to the average Joe:
- that when he pays with two inputs he must pay twice in fees, like when paying with two $10 bills you're charged more than when paying with a $20, oh wait...
- explain to the average Joe why he should pay the fee when his card is free
- explain that if something gets wrong with his coins there is no support number

Average Joe will not use decentralized Bitcoin, he will use still a centralized solution if he is forced to, and by then the picture for BTC will look just like the one for Fiat. Harsh and not the reality we want, but it's reality nonetheless!

Lets not forget about the mechanics of Bitcoin. Especially explaining what's written on the code, what it does, and how does it work. Fiat by itself is NOT programmable and exists in physical form. Even a kid can pay with paper money without the need for technical knowledge. With Bitcoin, not only you'd need to know which fees to set out right, but also you'd need to double-check the address you're sending the coins into, and also make sure your wallet isn't compromised.

Anyone coming from the Fiat world, will find it hard to get used to Bitcoin. At least, within the first days. Fortunately, some wallets are becoming easier to use thanks to developers' efforts on improving UI, automatically setting optimum fees based on network congestion, etc. I'm talking about on-chain BTC, of course. The Lightning Network is another story. It's only been 15 years since Bitcoin's inception, so I'd give it more time to mature. Who knows how far will mainstream adoption go in the future? Cheesy

justdimin

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Quote from: Smack That Ace on July 08, 2024, 10:12:38 PM

Quote from: Z-tight on July 08, 2024, 05:26:48 PM

We can also argue that so many people know nothing about the technical aspect of BTC, and even the basic part is still hard for a lot of people, because we still have people who overpay in tx fees, or people who underpay and have their tx stuck for weeks; there are also those who lose their funds kept in an online wallet, because they don't know what is cold storage.

Fiat system is centralized, there is a central authority in control, and traditionally people find such system easier to interact with. BTC is decentralized, you have the responsibility of doing things yourself, and majority of people find such a system more complicated.

I don't think the decentralized and centralized nature is what makes bitcoin more complicated for people as many people are still using and storing bitcoin using custodial wallets or even centralized exchanges. And if you ask them, they will still answer that using fiat currency is much simpler.

Overall, no system is simple if we go deeper into the technical part and how they work. The difference here is habits and time of use, fiat currencies have been used for hundreds of years and we have been exposed to them since childhood. Meanwhile, bitcoin has only been around for 15 years and most of us have only been exposed to them in the last few years and sporadically. So it's not surprising that people think bitcoin is more complicated.

I feel like the part is that governments can't take over it is what makes it so entertaining for everyone. I get that it may not be all that great right away, but it looks like we are talking about something that is benefiting everyone so it makes everyone love it as well.

This is of course just a thought and could be different, we could be considering stuff that are changing by a large margin, we just need to make sure that things are looking decent. Think about it, bitcoin could never be touched by anyone by the majority of the public, you need to have almost everyone all together to make that work and for that reason I believe that bitcoin is far better than fiat, and it is so simple as well because it is a democracy.

josgandosbro

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Bitcoin is not complicated. Without knowledge we can't easy understand the Bitcoin. Bitcoin is easy to Lear and it helpfull for the future. So before doning anything. Frist Lear it. Knowledge will be gide you. So knowledge is power of one. So lear and process the bitcoin.

Smack That Ace

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Quote from: Z-tight on July 08, 2024, 05:26:48 PM

Quote from: Natalim on July 08, 2024, 04:45:41 PM

The graph says it all, fiat system is more complicated than bitcoin and I think the people are actually aware of it but they don't care. Their focus is only using fiat as a payment method, and since they're exposed on it since childhood until at the present, and 24/7, then it's not surprising that they favor fiat more than bitcoin. But wait until majority learn the basics of bitcoin, they will definitely ask theirselves why it's only now that they clearly understand bitcoin when it's never complicated at all.

We can also argue that so many people know nothing about the technical aspect of BTC, and even the basic part is still hard for a lot of people, because we still have people who overpay in tx fees, or people who underpay and have their tx stuck for weeks; there are also those who lose their funds kept in an online wallet, because they don't know what is cold storage.

Fiat system is centralized, there is a central authority in control, and traditionally people find such system easier to interact with. BTC is decentralized, you have the responsibility of doing things yourself, and majority of people find such a system more complicated.

I don't think the decentralized and centralized nature is what makes bitcoin more complicated for people as many people are still using and storing bitcoin using custodial wallets or even centralized exchanges. And if you ask them, they will still answer that using fiat currency is much simpler.

Overall, no system is simple if we go deeper into the technical part and how they work. The difference here is habits and time of use, fiat currencies have been used for hundreds of years and we have been exposed to them since childhood. Meanwhile, bitcoin has only been around for 15 years and most of us have only been exposed to them in the last few years and sporadically. So it's not surprising that people think bitcoin is more complicated.

Darker45

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In fairness, Bitcoin is also complicated if we really go deep into its design. Fiat is complicated, yeah, but Bitcoin isn't actually as simple as others might make it appear. If we only consider the surface level, Bitcoin might be simple. But that's the same with fiat. Fiat at the surface level is also simple. But both are complex systems that laymen cannot fathom without long hours of serious and even guided study. For example, we're vouching for Bitcoin but can we give any assurance to anybody that it is the best design of money? Can we even read and explain the codes to our friends and families?

Z-tight

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Quote from: Natalim on July 08, 2024, 04:45:41 PM

The graph says it all, fiat system is more complicated than bitcoin and I think the people are actually aware of it but they don't care. Their focus is only using fiat as a payment method, and since they're exposed on it since childhood until at the present, and 24/7, then it's not surprising that they favor fiat more than bitcoin. But wait until majority learn the basics of bitcoin, they will definitely ask theirselves why it's only now that they clearly understand bitcoin when it's never complicated at all.

We can also argue that so many people know nothing about the technical aspect of BTC, and even the basic part is still hard for a lot of people, because we still have people who overpay in tx fees, or people who underpay and have their tx stuck for weeks; there are also those who lose their funds kept in an online wallet, because they don't know what is cold storage.

Fiat system is centralized, there is a central authority in control, and traditionally people find such system easier to interact with. BTC is decentralized, you have the responsibility of doing things yourself, and majority of people find such a system more complicated.

Natalim

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The graph says it all, fiat system is more complicated than bitcoin and I think the people are actually aware of it but they don't care. Their focus is only using fiat as a payment method, and since they're exposed on it since childhood until at the present, and 24/7, then it's not surprising that they favor fiat more than bitcoin. But wait until majority learn the basics of bitcoin, they will definitely ask theirselves why it's only now that they clearly understand bitcoin when it's never complicated at all.

dzungmobile

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Quote from: mirakal on July 08, 2024, 09:57:36 AM

I guess every person who is not knowledgeable on what he’s going to use will find it difficult and complicated. Same applies to fiat and bitcoin. People will definitely find fiat complicated if they don’t master its usage, but since fiat has been here more than a century then it’s expected that fiat mastery is high compared to the newly created bitcoin. No wonder why majority still prefer fiat over bitcoin when it comes to payment purposes.

Cash is the easiest way to use money in society but the elderly have more problems of using fiat currency in digital space like bank transfer. Bitcoin and cryptocurrency with blockchain technology can help the young and middle age but for the elderly, they will mostly feel so hard to learn, accept and actually use it.

Life is continuation of development, changes and generations replace each other as momentum in society. The technology is for everyone but do the elderly use it, it depends on them. Like whether they use smart phones, social media and more modern things, if they can learn and change themselves, they can adopt to most modern and latest technological developments in the world.

The story of advantage and challenge to the elderly with Bitcoin, cryptocurrency is almost the same.

jaberwock

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Quote from: GreatArkansas on July 04, 2024, 08:06:41 PM

It makes sense, this is what people mean about being complicated, unlike the fiat system.
For some people, it's easy to understand and use Bitcoin, but we can't really blame other people who having difficulty and are against it.
Because at the end of the day, it will be up to them if they will use Bitcoin or not.

I think it's the same. And those who said it, still thinks that BTC is complicated in any way. In terms of complexity, I think both of them are equal because fiat creation are also done in different process. It is just that people only see the finish product and fiat is physical, so it is literally easy to use/spend. Most of us here find it easy now to use a BTC but before, we are also having a difficulty with it.

Those people who think it's hard can also try what we we've been through and they might ended up liking it. They will then say that their efforts are worth it. Unfortunately, there are people who are not fit on it and the number one cause is lack in education (the general one). I'm referring to those oldies already because it will take them a long time even if they will try and may not be worth it at all at the end.

mirakal

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Quote from: Reatim on July 06, 2024, 03:01:56 AM

Quote from: Findingnemo on June 28, 2024, 12:28:34 PM

I just want to show this to whoever says Bitcoin technology is too complicated for a common man and then ask them to explain this which they have been using day to day and whether any of 'em got any idea what is going on behind their preferred method Cheesy

To be fair no common probably knows all this. But they think of fiat as less complicated because it is what’s commonly used. It seems pretty straightforward. Money from bank, money to spend.

But of course it is more than that but a common man does not see any use for knowing all the other details. With crypto, they say it’s complicated because they can’t understand where exactly it’s coming from. Their mindset is that “money is paper so how is crypto money if there’s no paper?”.

They just need to listen and focus and I am sure they will get it eventually

I guess every person who is not knowledgeable on what he’s going to use will find it difficult and complicated. Same applies to fiat and bitcoin. People will definitely find fiat complicated if they don’t master its usage, but since fiat has been here more than a century then it’s expected that fiat mastery is high compared to the newly created bitcoin. No wonder why majority still prefer fiat over bitcoin when it comes to payment purposes.

Alpha Marine

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on June 28, 2024, 12:33:41 PM

A common man is born into the fiat system and is taught by his parents, friends and colleagues how to use it. Bitcoin is still new if we compare it with fiat and is slowly getting adopted. Give it some time and it will be simple to understand in the future than in the current time.

This is why I cut out that are skeptical about bitcoin some slack. The traditional fiat system has been planted in us before we could even speak, our whole system is built on this fiat system so I don't expect people to just automatically adopt crypto immediately it was introduced to them.
Then there are other obstacles like Ponzi schemes and altcoins that have given them a misconception of bitcoin.
More people will adopt bitcoin, but it would happen organically. When something that's inevitable continues to grow, more people would be forced to accept it.
With time the adoption of bitcoin will grow exponentially, but it would be a while, it may not even be in our life time, but as long as bitcoin keeps growing and keeps surviving, it's adoption will grown even further. I'm not saying it would be a global legal tender, but it will be way more popular than it is today

stompix

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Quote from: darkangel11 on July 06, 2024, 02:49:15 PM

OK, let me try another angle, because IMO fiat money is more complicated than bitcoin.
You are making money from holding bitcoin, or you have a chance to make it in the fiat world.
With bitcoin all you have to know is how to secure your coins and how to transact with a wallet which isn't much more difficult than using a bank app on your phone.

Oh really?Let's compare using a card with a wallet!
I enter the store, I put my groceries on the table, I swipe my card , I'm out!
With btc, I enter the store, I go to the cashier, I have to see how much that is bitcoin, I have to input the amount, select the fees, have to look at the mempool, be careful for the value not to slip as I might underpay...
Are we even comparing the two?

The only solution to make it simple would be a 3rd party but that would kill the idea of p2p!
Some need to understand that BTC was not designed to be easy to use, it was designed to be a p2p currency, just as how torrenting isn't as easy for the average Joe as pushing the Netflix button on the remote, Bitcoin isn't as easy to utilize as a credit card for the masses!

Quote from: darkangel11 on July 06, 2024, 02:49:15 PM

When you choose fiat money you have to set up a company, get a name for the business and register it. You have to prepare invoices for your clients, get a credit card terminal, a safe to hold cash, a printer to print receipts. You need an accountant that will do all the paperwork for you once a year when you have to file taxes. You have to manage money that you hold in the bank because if they just lay there you'll lose at least 5% a year... Isn't bitcoin simple compared to that?

It's the same paperwork and even more if you accept Bitcoin, you still need a company, you still need a business license, you still need to file taxes and an accountant! What you're suggesting is working unlicensed and doing tax evasion!
But let's drop the obvious arguments!
If BTC would be that simple, and if we have 20% of the population owning crypto, why don't we have even 1% of the shops in major cities in the Western world accepting crypto? Pretty obvious answer!

ancafe

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Quote from: Maslate on July 06, 2024, 04:24:43 PM

Bitcoin will always be complicated for those who have no time on learning its technology, but for those who are very excited to learn even the basics in using bitcoin, it will never be complicated for them. In fact, seeing this graph alone certainly tells that it's fiat that is quite more compliment than using bitcoin, but since fiat has been here already from the time we are born, we don't see fiat anymore hard to learn and understand its usage.

Talking about technology that has developed so much, it shouldn't be difficult to learn the technology. Now what makes things complicated is when people don't know technology and they definitely don't know where to start. Bitcoin is simple, buy and hold using a much safer wallet so that the asset will be stored properly until it reaches the price desired by each individual. Fiat was like that when it first appeared, but slowly people were able to accept it, making fiat a viable transaction tool.

Even though bitcoin will not become a legal means of payment, there are other benefits that are much more rational in terms of maintaining value, so people will be increasingly open to accepting it slowly. The complexity that people talk about is because they don't want to learn and are inconsistent in learning the basics of using Bitcoin itself.

yazher

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If you really know the history of fiat, you will have an idea about how volatile they are and not to be trusted in terms of long term investment especially when the world is on the brink of another world war. That's why most investors are relying on Gold and Silver because for them these are the only real money and it won't decrease its price no matter what happen.

But sine we already have Bitcoin nowadays it is more preferable and convenient to have because you don't need to worry about transferring it no matter where you are as long as you have internet connection. Also the important thing is to easily bring it with you without even letting the others know you have them.

Maslate

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Bitcoin will always be complicated for those who have no time on learning its technology, but for those who are very excited to learn even the basics in using bitcoin, it will never be complicated for them. In fact, seeing this graph alone certainly tells that it's fiat that is quite more compliment than using bitcoin, but since fiat has been here already from the time we are born, we don't see fiat anymore hard to learn and understand its usage.

Cryptohygenic

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Quote from: Findingnemo on June 28, 2024, 12:28:34 PM

While I was scrolling Reddit one post caught my eyes

Bitcoin is too complicated" ~US Dollar user

_{*you may have to download and zoom in to get in details}

I just want to show this to whoever says Bitcoin technology is too complicated for a common man and then ask them to explain this which they have been using day to day and whether any of 'em got any idea what is going on behind their preferred method Cheesy

A common man as you said who is not a bitcoin fan will always have bitcoin complicated not until they are obligated to accept the technology and only then they can have that interesting fact to study about it and accept that fact that bitcoin is not complicated add the fiats because because has its trace of origin and we know total number of bitcoin created, so we also know total mined, transactions as visible and so also, it is obvious to have the potentials to store of values but we know nothing about the fiat apart of it as a centralized funds for goods and services exchanges.

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Quote from: Reatim on July 06, 2024, 03:01:56 AM

Quote from: Findingnemo on June 28, 2024, 12:28:34 PM

I just want to show this to whoever says Bitcoin technology is too complicated for a common man and then ask them to explain this which they have been using day to day and whether any of 'em got any idea what is going on behind their preferred method Cheesy

To be fair no common probably knows all this. But they think of fiat as less complicated because it is what’s commonly used. It seems pretty straightforward. Money from bank, money to spend.

But of course it is more than that but a common man does not see any use for knowing all the other details. With crypto, they say it’s complicated because they can’t understand where exactly it’s coming from. Their mindset is that “money is paper so how is crypto money if there’s no paper?”.

They just need to listen and focus and I am sure they will get it eventually

I do agree on you. People are born using fiat in the first place, so it's understood that they have master already on how to properly use it, unlike crypto particularly Bitcoin which has existed a decade ago so people until now are still starting from a scratch how to learn using it, while others just don't mind at all thinking they have fiat already so it takes no essence for them to learn how to use Bitcoin.

Z-tight

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Quote from: Findingnemo on July 06, 2024, 12:11:10 PM

My point is very simple people using USD for very long time but I am pretty sure 99.9% will not be aware of this things so for us to use Bitcoin we don't need to be a geek or expert it can be adopted by anyone with basic knowledge, might take a while to get used to the spending but it does really worth it instead of these bill of exchange.

You also do not need to be an expert on what goes on behind the scenes before you use fiat, a lot of people who use BTC do not also understand its technical aspects. I don't get your points, and this post hasn't made it any clearer, i am pro BTC, but fiat has its own purposes and it is what the majority of people use as a medium of exchange.

We can also argue that BTC is a riskier currency to use without having enough knowledge of it, because you are the one in control and responsible for your own security. However, when using fiat, you simply have to keep it in the bank and allow them keep it safe for you.

darkangel11

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Quote from: Reatim on July 06, 2024, 03:01:56 AM

To be fair no common probably knows all this. But they think of fiat as less complicated because it is what’s commonly used. It seems pretty straightforward. Money from bank, money to spend.

But of course it is more than that but a common man does not see any use for knowing all the other details. With crypto, they say it’s complicated because they can’t understand where exactly it’s coming from. Their mindset is that “money is paper so how is crypto money if there’s no paper?”.

They just need to listen and focus and I am sure they will get it eventually

OK, let me try another angle, because IMO fiat money is more complicated than bitcoin.
You are making money from holding bitcoin, or you have a chance to make it in the fiat world.
With bitcoin all you have to know is how to secure your coins and how to transact with a wallet which isn't much more difficult than using a bank app on your phone.
When you choose fiat money you have to set up a company, get a name for the business and register it. You have to prepare invoices for your clients, get a credit card terminal, a safe to hold cash, a printer to print receipts. You need an accountant that will do all the paperwork for you once a year when you have to file taxes. You have to manage money that you hold in the bank because if they just lay there you'll lose at least 5% a year... Isn't bitcoin simple compared to that?

Findingnemo

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So far this thread received mixed kind of response and I want to reply to most of the replies but I am too lazy to do that so I am leaving it's upto you to decide what and how it is.

My point is very simple people using USD for very long time but I am pretty sure 99.9% will not be aware of this things so for us to use Bitcoin we don't need to be a geek or expert it can be adopted by anyone with basic knowledge, might take a while to get used to the spending but it does really worth it instead of these bill of exchange.

Bitcoin is money so does Gold and others but USD or other fiat is not money it's bill of exchange.

Topic: Bitcoin isn't complicated but the fiat system is! (Read 629 times)