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Topic: Bitcoin keeps failing (Read 5118 times)

sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
I am Citizenfive.
November 27, 2013, 06:03:49 PM
#44
The currency is in it's infancy.  After mass adoption the price will become more and more stable as more and more resources are sold in Bitcoin.

I bet Satoshi wouldn't agree with u. He wrote that price will go up non-stop, otherwise fees wouldn't cover mining expenses.

At a slow rate though, like inflation but in the opposite direction. Single-digit percentages annually in the long term. Before, with inflationary systems, you were presented the choice of (1) lose value at a rate of X%, around 3% in the US, to inflation, as a penalty for holding your money, or (2) invest your money by letting someone else hold it for you, like a bank at the least, who invests it, or invest it directly. (2) was the only option if you wanted a shot at increasing your assets' value. The people actively investing the money get the full return for value added to the economy in the form of productivity. Any intermediaries take a slice, and holding it yourself is like anti-investment.

It only makes sense that an asset at a fixed quantity, like Bitcoin, if used as a symbol of value for a large majority of the world's population, will increase in value. In essence, Bitcoin is worth the sum of:
Vprev Its previous value, plus
VGDP A value equivalent to the GDP poured into it by the labor of its users (as people come to using BTC for wages and remain basically "inside" the economy), minus
Vex Anything that leaves the currency (buying things by converting from BTC to some other currency), plus
Vspec Perceived value-ad, which is created by speculators (by buying BTC with some other currency).

As time progresses, (A) will always increase overall unless (C) outweighs it, which I can say is highly unlikely due to the psychology of the network effect; (B) will become the most influential, tying the value of the currency to our productivity as a species; (C) will become insignificant, as stated above, and (D) which, is necessary to bootstrap a decentralized and unbacked currency like Bitcoin, and which currently props up the currency, will become unnecessary.

This is why Bitcoin can be described as having a binary outcome. If Vspec outweighs Vex for a period of time sufficient to cause VGDP to be sufficient to offset Vex on its own permanently, due to the network effect, then congratulations, you have bootstrapped a currency. The addition of the large backers in recent memory (Winklevoss twins, Richard Branson, etc.) virtually guaranteed that, and the remaining fear would be that a top economy would essentially outlaw it, but China embraced it, which forces the US to embrace it or not at their own peril -- and all signs point toward embrace. So, by all likelihood, we are past the biggest dangers to the currency achieving minimum orbital velocity.

In this way, simply holding BTC is an act of investment in the productivity of the human species, without requiring an intermediary. You can of course invest in specific subsets of the species (companies) that you're betting on beating the average, which will remain a smart move probably. But holding money isn't like giving it away as a penalty, anymore. So yes, it will become stable enough for use. Or, it won't be used at all, in the long term. There will be no middle ground, except for now, during the bootstrapping stage where Vspec is the greatest component of Vprev at any given time, thus subjecting it to instability. This is temporary. It is certain that if we are still talking about Bitcoin in a few years and not as a history lesson, it will have reached a point of stability congruous with usability.
hero member
Activity: 632
Merit: 500
November 25, 2013, 03:04:31 AM
#43
Very short-sighted my friend.

The currency is in it's infancy.  After mass adoption the price will become more and more stable as more and more resources are sold in Bitcoin.

When China trades oil in Crypto currencies perhaps you'll consider updating your views.

Of course by then the investment opportunity will long be gone.

you might like to consider that when China trades oil in crypto currencies, it will be its own generated one, not one it has no control over.      they'll pre-mine a new currency and run their own block chain in a bank of dedicated super computers.

WRONG!  China has to buy energy from other countries.  And those countries will only deal in a currency they trust.  That's going to be a decentralized crypto currency.  Right now that looks like Bitcoin.  (You heard it hear first.)
full member
Activity: 209
Merit: 100
November 23, 2013, 02:47:48 PM
#42
Let us not forget that the Bitcoin developer abandoned his project years ago and vanished.

Fortunately there are other currencies with active developers rising to the challenge. Don't worry, if Bitcoin becomes a sheer object of speculation others will find a way. Bookmark this page: http://coinmarketcap.com/

Breaking news! Sell bitcoin, sell bitcoin! Micro guy says bitcoin is abandoned!
sr. member
Activity: 245
Merit: 250
November 23, 2013, 12:24:55 PM
#41
Very short-sighted my friend.

The currency is in it's infancy.  After mass adoption the price will become more and more stable as more and more resources are sold in Bitcoin.

When China trades oil in Crypto currencies perhaps you'll consider updating your views.

Of course by then the investment opportunity will long be gone.

you might like to consider that when China trades oil in crypto currencies, it will be its own generated one, not one it has no control over.      they'll pre-mine a new currency and run their own block chain in a bank of dedicated super computers.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
November 23, 2013, 09:37:01 AM
#40
Bitcoin is not only a store of value. Please google it more next time.

What is it then?

Useless psuedo bullshit, bitcoin was created to get the sheep to accept digital currency, it will be replaced by government backed digital currency and botcoin will just die thereafter when they deem ready to murder it.

Ohh you see all these Bitcoin scams can't trust some black market currency, but you can trust ECB and FED backed digital currency.

Bitcoin knew about its mass scaling problems and did jack shit in the last 5 years to address them, either really stupid or done on purpose.

+1
Agree , a digital currency backed by the govt will work and will succeed better , however BTC may succeed as a digital currency when there is chaos maybe i don't know , but anyway its not about BTC specifically its about digital currency , BTC in itself is nothing is just another form of paper money man made currency in a digital form with a limit , that's it its nothing really , any group of people/country can make another form of BTC , that's why it will drop hard but not necessarily die ....
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
Cuddling, censored, unicorn-shaped troll.
November 23, 2013, 07:36:27 AM
#39
I bet Satoshi wouldn't agree with u. He wrote that price will go up non-stop, otherwise fees wouldn't cover mining expenses.

Bitcoin has no "price". It has an exchange rate with other currencies.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
November 23, 2013, 07:04:13 AM
#38
The currency is in it's infancy.  After mass adoption the price will become more and more stable as more and more resources are sold in Bitcoin.

I bet Satoshi wouldn't agree with u. He wrote that price will go up non-stop, otherwise fees wouldn't cover mining expenses.
hero member
Activity: 632
Merit: 500
November 23, 2013, 06:56:52 AM
#37
Yeah, it costs 7 times more but now it can't be used as currency with all these +/-100 USD swings. Early adopters happy but the rest of the world can't use it even as store of value, because when it crosses 1000 USD mark the early adopters will cash out again. Of coz u can hold it until it reaches 2000 USD mark, but will it?

So, when Bitcoin becomes more mainstream, one coin would cost 10 000$ and more. So tell me, how one bitcoin can hold its price stable at the current level?

It can't, and this makes it unusable as a currency.

Very short-sighted my friend.

The currency is in it's infancy.  After mass adoption the price will become more and more stable as more and more resources are sold in Bitcoin.

When China trades oil in Crypto currencies perhaps you'll consider updating your views.

Of course by then the investment opportunity will long be gone.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
November 23, 2013, 06:50:42 AM
#36
Yeah, it costs 7 times more but now it can't be used as currency with all these +/-100 USD swings. Early adopters happy but the rest of the world can't use it even as store of value, because when it crosses 1000 USD mark the early adopters will cash out again. Of coz u can hold it until it reaches 2000 USD mark, but will it?

So, when Bitcoin becomes more mainstream, one coin would cost 10 000$ and more. So tell me, how one bitcoin can hold its price stable at the current level?

It can't, and this makes it unusable as a currency.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
hm
November 23, 2013, 06:46:09 AM
#35
Yeah, it costs 7 times more but now it can't be used as currency with all these +/-100 USD swings. Early adopters happy but the rest of the world can't use it even as store of value, because when it crosses 1000 USD mark the early adopters will cash out again. Of coz u can hold it until it reaches 2000 USD mark, but will it?

So, when Bitcoin becomes more mainstream, one coin would cost 10 000$ and more. So tell me, how one bitcoin can hold its price stable at the current level?
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 501
in defi we trust
November 23, 2013, 06:14:49 AM
#34
Bitcoin is just a couple of years old, give it some time!

Time is quite some issue here.
Bitcoin has rise in price like there is no tomorrow but in number of people actually using it the increase is just laughable.
If something new and more user friendly comes on the market the future is grim for it as a currency.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
November 23, 2013, 06:07:32 AM
#33
Bitcoin is just a couple of years old, give it some time!

Ok. But it's 5 years old, btw.
sr. member
Activity: 242
Merit: 250
November 23, 2013, 06:06:18 AM
#32
Bitcoin is just a couple of years old, give it some time!
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
November 23, 2013, 05:11:27 AM
#31
One more thread about when 1 BTC == 1000000 USD. Yeah, ppl care only how to make more dollars using bitcoins...
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
I am Citizenfive.
November 22, 2013, 09:59:08 AM
#30
Sorry for your loss.

I'll advise not going full fiat unless in case of extreme need - full fiat tends to make people bitter and angry.

Thx. But it's not a loss coz I used that money to create more money (in USD though). It's delusion that u should hold Bitcoins to get max profit. Money must work.

Yes. But I think many Keynesian-types have gotten their causality inverted when they look at successful economies and liquidity and cash flow. I strongly suspect that you cannot legislate a good economy by "forcing" cash flow, because the only way to make cash flow more than is natural, is to change the equilibrium by making it *more expensive* not to have it in motion, and the physicist in me reduces these concepts into a vague sort of economic perpetual-motion machine. Maybe they'll be able to switch up the game before it runs out of steam, but it certainly will eventually if left unattended...
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
November 22, 2013, 09:48:21 AM
#29
Sorry for your loss.

I'll advise not going full fiat unless in case of extreme need - full fiat tends to make people bitter and angry.

Thx. But it's not a loss coz I used that money to create more money (in USD though). It's delusion that u should hold Bitcoins to get max profit. Money must work.
full member
Activity: 896
Merit: 102
November 22, 2013, 09:32:58 AM
#28
Code:
Yeah, it costs 7 times more but now it can't be used as currency with all these +/-100 USD swings. Early adopters happy but the rest of the world can't use it even as store of value, because when it crosses 1000 USD mark the early adopters will cash out again. Of coz u can hold it until it reaches 2000 USD mark, but will it?

So sad you sold in 2011. You should have kept some.

Yeah... Wait, I sold at 200+ half a year ago! And keep getting them as payment for my coding service. Don't worry about me plz.

Sorry for your loss.

I'll advise not going full fiat unless in case of extreme need - full fiat tends to make people bitter and angry.

Excellent off topic rant about your penis being massively small, and your need to boost your ego.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1018
November 22, 2013, 09:29:26 AM
#27
Yeah, it costs 7 times more but now it can't be used as currency with all these +/-100 USD swings. Early adopters happy but the rest of the world can't use it even as store of value, because when it crosses 1000 USD mark the early adopters will cash out again. Of coz u can hold it until it reaches 2000 USD mark, but will it?

So sad you sold in 2011. You should have kept some.

Yeah... Wait, I sold at 200+ half a year ago! And keep getting them as payment for my coding service. Don't worry about me plz.

Sorry for your loss.

I'll advise not going full fiat unless in case of extreme need - full fiat tends to make people bitter and angry.
full member
Activity: 896
Merit: 102
November 22, 2013, 09:24:13 AM
#26
Bitcoin is not only a store of value. Please google it more next time.

What is it then?

Useless psuedo bullshit, bitcoin was created to get the sheep to accept digital currency, it will be replaced by government backed digital currency and botcoin will just die thereafter when they deem ready to murder it.

Ohh you see all these Bitcoin scams can't trust some black market currency, but you can trust ECB and FED backed digital currency.

Bitcoin knew about its mass scaling problems and did jack shit in the last 5 years to address them, either really stupid or done on purpose.

I agree that Bitcoin has scalability issue, but the rest of ur post isn't backed by anything.

Its backed by many things go do some research. If you look at the current landscape governments all want a digital currency it means more control when they can track everything you spend your money on.
full member
Activity: 896
Merit: 102
November 22, 2013, 09:21:21 AM
#25

Average 3rd world person in poverty, has no bank account. They have no real means of even amassing wealth safely. Tack on to this, that services like Paypal and others all needed some "Exchange" end to be value, none of which was cash, prohibits them from participating.

Now, some guy can post services , get a small micro wallet, and very good chance he can exchange it one way or another. With 0 fear of some corp just jacking his funds over some KYC issues etc. The real potential is for the world of people excluded from normal banking and savings. IT will just take time and adoption.

True, a lot of people have limited access to computers, internet, banking, especially in poor regions, but they have (or could afford) mobile phones with wallets, or any other small pieces of tech, which are easy to carry, and work for days without electricity. By having a BTC wallet instead of cash you can feel safer cause it's encrypted and more secure than a credit card, no central authority watching over your money, you just have a coin in your pocket and the whole system can go F*** themselves.

Nowadays people are insecure, just look at this whole prepper thing, nobody heard about it since the cold war. In the US you can at least buy a gun and shoot it from your porch, imagine how people in the EU feel - no real rights, no weapons and more countries in debt or bankrupt.



This is very true, heard something that the poorest countries all have smart phones a data like a massive majority. The europeans me being one of them can go fuck themsleves, they deserve what they get with their pseudo bullshit progressiveness, ohh guns are bad good you dumb twats have fun getting fucked from other people with guns.

What do you expect from the nation who is going to Usher in anti christ
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