Topic: Bitcoin kwoledge is not complete without bitcoin investment - page 16. (Read 3441 times)

You don't need to have money for investment before seeking for knowledge. Knowledge of whichever type can never be a waste. Talking about having bitcoin knowledge without having money to invest will also earn you money by teaching people who are willing to learn about bitcoin and you can charge them for a little token. Knowledge itself is a wealth. Having knowledge will also not stop you from struggling to get money which you can later use to invest in whatever you think will be better for you. And again, having knowledge will protect you from investing in wrong assets that will make you to lose your money.

Going back to Op, without investing in bitcoin your knowledge is never a waste because investment is a choice and you can learn and decide not practice it. We have a number of trained doctors, lawyers, mechanic etc who are well trained but are not practicing it. Can we say their knowledge is not complete because they are not practicing it? Such is applicable to Bitcoin.

Leave the experimental side of investment for the later, I spend months after months for learning Bitcoin and other necessary things, if you lack money you will have to work or get a job first before you can invest in Bitcoin, so it's not something everyone can rush.

I used almost a year to learn about bitcoin and I have never thought of wasting my time because I don't have money to invest yet, those who don't have money are still welcome to participate in crypto, they can start with testnet experiments or move into airdrops, there are still free ways of earning coins so having money doesn't mean you are not welcome.

Some people have all the money,  such people are still not fit to invest in Bitcoin because they don't have the knowledge, either you have the money or not, you have to seek for knowledge first.

This effort is quite attractive for some people in their 50s to invest in Bitcoin as a safe haven asset for their old age. However, as you have explained, of course it is very related to the big principle of seeking income from the spare money they have to invest in Bitcoin. Sometimes the lateness in getting started isn't that big of a deal because their confidence level is higher with mass adoption happening. Of course, for those in their 50s, they don't think about anything else other than their focus is only on investing.

However, if they are just learning about Bitcoin when they are in their 50s, it would be a good idea for them to invest based on their desire to learn more about Bitcoin. Generally, currently it is millennials who dominate investment in Bitcoin, and in general, of those aged 50 and over, only a portion of them invest in Bitcoin due to their lack of knowledge about Bitcoin (perhaps too late). As mentioned, those aged over 50 will have a lower level of income if their work is not permanent (for those who are not state officials). So the level of their needs will probably be the main thing in investing in Bitcoin for the long term. Even a tendency towards distrust may be the basis if they start too late.

I think it it quite common that either people do not have enough because they failed to plan and to take actions and maybe even they were too busy gambling rather than investing and believing that their gambling amounted to a kind of investment, and then it did not end up paying off.

Sure sometimes they might be to blame, but sometimes they might have some misfortunes too... so there can be a lot of reasons that people might feel that they are "starting" or "starting over" at a very late age.

Sometimes they are busy having fun and going on vacations and they do not really realize how the time will end up slipping away from them, and then one day they wake up and they realize that they have only saved $10k, even though they have a lifestyle that requires around $100k per year, and so they have to do some serious thinking about how they might need to make progress towards getting where they should have had been.


Those seem to be two different topics.  One topic is NOT having enough of an investment portfolio and by using traditional measures of equities, property, commodities, bonds and/or cash or cash equivalents.   And then another question is being new to bitcoin, which seems to be way less unusual, especially since less than 1% of the world population has any kind of stake in bitcoin, so even with the group who have bitcoin, there may be quite a few that do not even have any kind of significant and/or meaningful amount of bitcoin.. so maybe the guy who wakes up at 50 or 55 years old realizes that he ONLY has around $10k saved up, and maybe he only owns $500 worth of bitcoin, and that is even being charitable to speculate that any average joe would own any bitcoin at all.. the best presumption is that 99% do not own any and some of those 99% believe that they know what bitcoin is, but they likely do not know what it is because if they knew what it was, they would not be a no coiner, but they might be a low coiner.


You can ONLY enjoy or even stop working if you have prepared in advance, and there really are not that many people who can stop working before they are 50-ish and many people have difficulties stopping working when they get into their early 60s.  It is not necessarily easy to get to a point that you can stop working... especially early (meaning prior to the time in which some of the paid into government benefits start to be available).. so even if the various benefits might start to be available, there still may well be reasons (and/or a lot of benefits) to having a variety of ways to supplement benefits without necessarily having to sell your own personal residence or having to size down your residence for financial rather than convenience reasons.

Many people in the USA don't have too much saved but if they do, the main things that they have would be 1) property (such as a personal residence), 2) something like a 401k plan, 3) maybe if they are lucky a pension... and 4) some kind of a government benefit plan - such as social security.    So if they have other investments outside of those four potential cash flow sources, then they might be able to supplement those, but a lot of people do not even have those main 4.. and maybe because of their lack of investing in various categories, they often might fall back on the 4th category, but if some people have been working informally or not paying into such government programs through their own businesses, then they also might have fucked themselves by not contributing into it and when it comes time for the benefit they are either ineligible or the amount that they receive might only be 20% or less than the income that they had been previously earning in their working years...and maybe they were not even really making much of anything either because they were working in the informal economy or off of the books.


When it comes to investing, time tends to be your friend.  When you have a lot of time, then you should be able to invest relatively small amounts over the long term and then just build up the amount that you have, so you will not always know the consequences of your failures/refusals to adequately prepare until it comes time to start to draw the benefits and to see that you do not have anything...so their surely are young people who are just as dumb as old people who have not saved up, but they might not have realized the consequences until they figure out that they either do not want to work or that they cannot work and then that might be where the rubber hits the road as far as their abilities to actually stop working and still be able to maintain a standard of living that is sufficiently comfortable and even sustainable...even having savings in a retirement might not save anyone if they draw down the principle too fast.  They should be attempting to mostly live off the interest rather than the principle and not even those kinds of concepts are clear to people without consulting with an expert, even though most of us should know those kinds of basics.. but many people do not know that kind of information.


Overall I have the sense that they don't really need help since... it's too late by the time they get old if they have fucked up then they are limited in what they can do. .. but sure I agree that they need to try to figure something out so that they do not squander whatever they do happen to have at that time.

And, yeah, sure they might need some help to manage whatever they do have left so that they do not end up squandering away whatever that they do have.. so maybe I am ending up agreeing with you about their need for help that would have been much better to try to get sorted out way sooner.. while they still have an income coming in (perhaps while they are still in their working years) rather than when their cashflow sources are drying up.


If someone is in a totally fucked up situation, their amount of bitcoin might need to be pretty limited if they don't have a lot of margin, and so their investment into bitcoin might end up taking a real small size, and it might not even be a good thing to invest into if they are barely making ends meet, but sure if they have some extra and they have a 4-10 year time horizon that they believe that they are still going to be living, then sure the can buy into bitcoin with some of their discretionary income so long as they also make sure that their emergency fund and their other kinds of ways to cover their expenses is largely going to be covered by their projected income.

Maybe we are kind of saying the same thing.. but with any investment into a volatile asset, such as bitcoin, it is better to figure out your position size based on how much you might need the cash, and if you have strong cashflows, then you have more cushion as compared with someone who both has week cashflows but also potential circumstances in which anything that s/he does have saved may well need to be somewhat more liquid and not overly volatile and bitcoin meets the liquid angle but not the low volatility angle.

If you consider Bitcoin as part of your life, you will have to depend on Bitcoin all your life if you only have Bitcoin, and that doesn't mean you won't sell it at all for 10 years.
I mean, make Bitcoin a goal to help you in various stages of your life. Just like a wedding, and this should be part of your plans because weddings cost money and you can use the profits or part of the profits from Bitcoin after it reaches its highest price to prepare and plan.
And after that you still need other costs such as housing and equipment, then birth costs and so on for 10 years that you have to think about, including sick costs and other unexpected costs. So the best option is to treat Bitcoin for your future or old age, and also help your essential needs if you really need it by taking advantage of some of the profits from Bitcoin and without abandoning your DCA strategy. And my advice is to always take advantage of a downturn to increase your purchases, and reduce them when another rise occurs.

And why they did it late 

That's an interesting point to review, one big factor could be that they are new to Bitcoin this year, or they are full of regrets about the dark past because they had some BTC but didn't hold it in the long term. So that now they are aware and ready to make long-term investments when they are past their 50s. I thought it wouldn't be a problem but in old age it seems like they have little time to enjoy.  lol
 However, investment certainly does not look at age, whether they are still students or have entered their 50s, of course they will be able to do it. But for those who are older, they definitely need someone to guide them, be it their children because if something happens, for example they die, of course their children will know that their parents invested in Bitcoin.

I still see the snapshot image in the OP.. but if you were to have had chosen to delete it for the purposes of privacy and/or privacy related precautions, then hopefully any member who had cited that post with that image would also be willing to delete it.. but if you have not yet deleted it, then they might not delete it. ..and they might need to receive a request in order to delete it, since they might not delete it on their own (or even come back to this thread and/or realize that you deleted the image, if you end up choosing to delete the image).   

By the way, if you had noticed in my earlier post, I am not even necessarily against the idea that you chose to include the image or that you would have provided some kind of description of what you did, yet sometimes it is good to include some waffling and/or plausible deniability.. which would not mean that you are not being honest, even if you might be not disclosing exact specifics.. that seems to be shown in something like an image like that.

Usually I try not to cite another member's post with potentially sensitive personal details, but even I am guilty of citing such posts when I recognize the problematic nature of some of the personal details that they had post, and in that regard, we cannot always be able to or even have to, protect members from their own chosen disclosures... as long as we are not engaging in such citing of their posts for malicious reasons (which also is not always clear regarding how malicious any of us might be without even necessarily realizing it.. even though general definitions of maliciousness imply that there is already a knowing/intentional kind of desire for bad results built in to the action).

My personal posting style does tend to attempt to quote portions of posts that I am discussing in order to provide a proper context, and also sometimes, I am worried about my own post being read out of context if I do not cite the relevant portions of the other person's post that I am talking about in my own post.


Yeah.. a 10-year (or longer) investment time horizon may well be reasonable for you, and surely you may also end up retaining several of your assets (including bitcoin) for 30 years or more. .and of course, it can be difficult to plan with too many details that far out into our futures since there can be several things that end up changing our financial, health and/or psychological circumstances with the passage of that much time...

And, at the same time, we may well end up setting up a general trajectory in our late 20s, and then every few years we might revisit both whether we need to tweak the trajectory in small ways or whether there might be some aspects of the trajectory that are in need of more major revisions or even abandonment or addition of other new parts (investments and/or liquidations) into the earlier parts.

Thank you for explaining the reason why it isn't a safe practice to show the details of my transaction. I have deleted it.

Yea those who are die hard bitcoin fans might continue with buying bitcoin even at old age with their pension or with money that they don't need, because down here in my country most elderly people that their children are successful already gives money to their parents, and most times these people don't know what to use the money for rather than just piling it up and leave the behind after their demise.

Such money can be used to buy bitcoin during that time instead of piling it up, the person might give out the bitcoin as charity to the church or orphanage homes. On the other hand if the old man is rich, he can continue to invest in bitcoin even at that age so that he can will it out to his heir because it will be more valuable than fiat due to inflation at that period of time.

I am still young at my late twenties and if I can DCA for ten years from now without selling, I believe that I will have a significant amount of bitcoin, which this I will try to achieve because I want to make bitcoin be part of my life since I believe that bitcoin has come to stay and it is worth investing in as an assest.

I don't really disagree with anything that you are saying, yet still some people who start investing late in life don't really have anything in their investment portfolio and they are just getting started, albeit late.

The timeline that someone has may also have to do with their other investments, and surely the cashflows from some investments might come available at various points in life, and surely there could be some cashflows drying up (or not sufficiently keeping up with inflation) and other cashflows coming available in terms of 401ks and other kinds of retirement funds that come available in various kinds of ways, whether lump sums or the employment of withdrawal parameters.

Maybe in the end I am not even really disagreeing about your ideas of being able to invest into bitcoin even at a late age, so in that regard I would not even presume that the investing into bitcoin would stop at 65. even though there are overall presumptions about needs that older folks are generally going to have to want to have various aspects of their investments that are more liquid.. and even stable in terms of cash price.  We know that bitcoin is amongst the greatest of liquid assets around the world and likely increasing in its liquidity, but it is not likely to increase in its price stability and likely to do the opposite. which many of us have already frequently recognized and appreciated that one of the most likely guaranteed and inevitable things about bitcoin remains its volatility...

so questions about how to invest into bitcoin might not always be about whether to invest, but instead about position size, and many of us likely would hope that our position size in regards to bitcoin is becoming more stable and drawn upon in more elderly years rather than being invested into, even though I surely take your point regarding investing into bitcoin late in life and also in terms of someone who might not already have exposure to bitcoin late in life versus someone who may have already had several years of being invested into bitcoin.. there would be certain desires to be ahead of the game in terms of bitcoin by the time any of us is getting into his/her later years..so let's say 65 and beyond as you mentioned.

Yeah the ten year dca plan or longer is good even if you are in your 50s

starting it at 52 and wrapping it up at retirement when 65 is still viable at this moment.

Even if btc does only 20x from now till 2036 it will almost certainly out do cash 💷.

Personally, I get the sense that OP is on the right track in spite of a seemingly overwhelming number of members responding and telling OP that he is fucking up by jumping into bitcoin too soon.

There is a hurry in bitcoin to get the fuck started.

The reason that we have ONLY less than 1% of the world's population investing into bitcoin is because the overwhelming majority of the world either does not know what bitcoin is or they think that they know what it is and have failed/refused to take any action.

OP did the right thing by taking action, even if he admits that he is still learning, but he's got several of the basics right already.  He figured out some kind of an amount that is reasonable for him, which is taking part of his income stream that he believes that he does not need, and he also thinks that he will be investing around 10% of his income and for 10 years or longer. 

What other perfect case for getting the fuck started do we need?  Op is going to get started in a modest way and he is going to learn and he is going to be ahead of 99% of the rest of the world, and I am not even sure if he is being too wimpy or too aggressive in his bitcoin investment amount, because he is in the best place to make those kinds of decisions, and he has explained his approach pretty well.. at least outlined what his approach is and that he is willing to learn more.

Sure, his opening post had seemed to be a bit overly exciting, and so likely he has to make sure that he does not allow his emotions to get in  the way of his investment approach, but shouldn't any of us get excited by both learning about bitcoin and getting started with a relatively modest approach that he says that he is going to try to continue to follow and to learn along the way.

Regarding his choice to share his actual purchase amount (quantity of BTC), that is not completely irrelevant, and many of us have made several of those kinds of disclosures over the years, and sure it probably is not really necessary for him to provide a screen shot or to even argue with other members about how there is already so much information out there, so why not put some more out there, even though in the end, it is within his discretion how to frame his discussion and his personal disclosures, and maybe it would have been better for him to describe with a bit more vagueness, which is what a lot of us have learned to do over the years. 

Sometimes we speak in terms of a range or in terms of hypotheticals, which are all great ways to attempt to employ some plausible deniability... because sometimes forum members could end up being found out and some of their transaction could be linked.. yet remember back in the good ole days when a lot of members were sharing these various kinds of transactional information, but many of us have stopped doing that because it seems to be that we learned that it can be problematic to have too many pieces of information out there.. even though there is still some information and some members still do share quite bit more than others, and maybe some of those members may have ended up getting themselves into trouble with some of that oversharing... so sometimes we don't necessarily know what we do not know, so likely OP should at least attempt to consider the extent to which he wants to retain some plausible deniability and maybe just say that he bought a certain amount rather than showing a redacted picture of it.

You are just confused at the start which is normal for an investor because if you don't doubt an investment then you are not a wise investor. You did great and what you bought is decent for a starter. But, like other members said, there's really no hurry when it comes to buying Bitcoin. Learn more and keep all those lessons that you will receive from good platforms like this forum. I do suggest avoiding social media fake analysts and FUDsters though because most of them are supporting another coin and they want to pull out Bitcoin investors in their midst.
Pick who you will follow, it's better if they are only posting knowledge about Bitcoin and analysis with facts to back it up. Learn, learn, learn and you won't worry about anything afterwards.

knowledge of bitcoin means ?

How to code it?
How to spend it?
How to buy it?
How to earn it?
How to mine it?
How to trade it?
How to hodl it?

I suppose some of the things above are important

But ultimately If you are under 30 years do a 10 year dca and hodl it.. 

Then decide your next move with it.

So you  need to know:

 how to buy it
 how to hodl it
 how to sell it one day in the future.

Sounds like investing is all you need to do.

Yes actualization of your investment would be needed to test if your knowledge is working. but it’ll never be enough; learning never stops. I’ve been here in this industry for years and still, I am learning new things on each week proving that development continues for this industry. And I’m sure others as well are doing the same thing. But as the topic suggests, it’ll mean nothing if you won’t have the courage to actually invest and use your knowledge that you’ve learned. Also, investing won’t be too easy that it’ll smoothly go as planned; there’ll be times that losses would come and that is when your knowledge would be more used to handle the situation.

Knowledge will always bring power no matter what. Even if you don’t use it to invest at the moment but the fact that you utilize it to influence others, that will never go into waste. And when those people whom you’ve educated and influenced at the same time have start using them through investing, then it’s like those knowledge have been very useful for them.

No, investing in Bitcoin is not mandatory in acquiring knowledge about Bitcoin to make it complete.  Investing in Bitcoin is another action outside the Bitcoin learning.  Investment is more on aiming for profit and taking advantage of the learning we acquire about Bitcoin.  Even without investment, a person can still have complete knowledge about Bitcoin so I believe that the title is a fallacy because we can still learn about the possibiities of Bitcoin investment through the experience of others.

Studying without a purpose is a bad thing, even a novel reader has a purpose for why he reads. Learning bitcoin is not an obligation if they are not really interested in investing or whatever the goal is. Some people are starting to study Bitcoin because they want to know how it works, how it is valued and what it was created for. They don't have to invest, but they just want to provide an explanation to others when there is a discussion about it somewhere.

Religious leaders are the category of people I am referring to. They don't invest, but they study bitcoin for their own purposes. But for anyone who is interested in Bitcoin and has studied it seriously, it is clear that without investment it can be said to be incomplete.

Yep, people probably won't spend their time to learn Bitcoin and have good Bitcoin knowledge if they have no intention to invest/trade Bitcoin. Sure, there are people who directly invest in Bitcoin, but there are other people who invest in Bitcoin after they know well what Bitcoin is. The goal should be the same although the time when they start their investments are different.

I'm sure there is no people who learn Bitcoin for fun only. Bitcoin is a serious thing, it is not something that people know it for having fun. When someone wants to have Bitcoin knowledge, they must have the intention to invest or trade Bitcoin.

Indeed, not implementing your knowledge is like being a lazy person actually, cause you already have the information you need to invest in BTC where some of the people find it complicated and hard. If you're learning it for fun then for sure you have a lot of time in your hand, so if you reason out you got no funds to invest, why not find a money sources for you to provide the money you need to invest. Well, there's no actually late comer whenever you want to invest in years, but you'll miss out some early opportunities for sure.

Investing in Bitcoin is just an option but can't hide the fact that people are here, googling/searching about Bitcoin for investment purposes. Either they will be investing today while still learning more or after. I don't believe that someone spent their time without a strong reason for doing it for I was sure that there is something that urged them to do that. And it is just a waste of time (for me) not using it after learning as it will just pass by and then forget in the future.