Bitcoin microtransactions are it's eventual demise?

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: Peter R on February 05, 2014, 02:14:49 PM

Quote from: vabtc on February 04, 2014, 05:08:43 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on February 04, 2014, 04:54:30 PM

Quote from: vabtc on February 04, 2014, 01:28:03 PM

What $0.40 fee? Average tx size is 682 bytes. At 0.1 mBTC per KB that is $0.08 rounding up to nearest KB (current version) and $0.05 using actual size (planned for future version).

I may have to research this a little more, I sent .00042 to a charity as an example for someone and it charged me .0005 mBTC, not sure my why tx size was so large..it was through my blockchain iphone app so i ended up paying $.40 to send $.32.

Edit: .00092 was taken out, clarifying post

You are correct vabtc: but this is an Apple problem rather than a bitcoin problem.

Piuk, after a lot of hard work, was able to get the Blockchain.info app into the AppStore. Since then, Apple has forced other apps such as Coinbase and Glyph to remove bitcoin-transfer capabilities.

To avoid a "re-review" of the Blockchain.info iPhone app, piuk has decided not to update it and risk having it removed entirely from the AppStore. This means that you and I and all other iPhone users are stuck with bitcoin wallets that default to the very old (and now very expensive) fees of 0.0005 BTC!

The good news is that the situation may have recently changed. Check out http://www.blockchain.com !

Ouch. Thanks for the clarification. That makes sense and I am sure he isn't the only one confused by that behavior.

Peter R

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Quote from: vabtc on February 04, 2014, 05:08:43 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on February 04, 2014, 04:54:30 PM

Quote from: vabtc on February 04, 2014, 01:28:03 PM

What $0.40 fee? Average tx size is 682 bytes. At 0.1 mBTC per KB that is $0.08 rounding up to nearest KB (current version) and $0.05 using actual size (planned for future version).

I may have to research this a little more, I sent .00042 to a charity as an example for someone and it charged me .0005 mBTC, not sure my why tx size was so large..it was through my blockchain iphone app so i ended up paying $.40 to send $.32.

Edit: .00092 was taken out, clarifying post

You are correct vabtc: but this is an Apple problem rather than a bitcoin problem.

Piuk, after a lot of hard work, was able to get the Blockchain.info app into the AppStore. Since then, Apple has forced other apps such as Coinbase and Glyph to remove bitcoin-transfer capabilities.

To avoid a "re-review" of the Blockchain.info iPhone app, piuk has decided not to update it and risk having it removed entirely from the AppStore. This means that you and I and all other iPhone users are stuck with bitcoin wallets that default to the very old (and now very expensive) fees of 0.0005 BTC!

The good news is that the situation may have recently changed. Check out http://www.blockchain.com !

jcoin200

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Why would you have to type in the numbers? Just scan the QR code and send the BTC.

Mr. Socko

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Quote from: keithers on February 04, 2014, 01:36:54 PM

Quote from: vabtc on February 04, 2014, 01:28:03 PM

This is why I still support litecoin even with the ASIC drama going on. Paying $5 in bitcoin is not really feasible right now given the $.40 fee but paying $5 in litecoin is a $.02 fee. I think they compliment each other, for now, until the BTC devs figure out a better fee scheme than what exists today. Their is room for a single crytpo wallet that lets people store and use the various coins that make it through this year with valid support/dev.

and if you get paid in BTC, your "salary" doesn't go down every month, you still make the same in fiat terms, bitcoin is just worth more. Ask Andreas if he minds...

I think that LTC could very well be used in the future for day to day transactions since the confirmation speed is quick also. I could see a day where BTC is used mainly as a store of value, and for purchases of large items (i.e. Cars, homes, etc), and LTC used for thinks like (food, clothes, etc)

yep... hold the gold for wealth and spend the silver in the marketplace.

Lauda

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Terminated.

Trillion of them? Roll with DOGE then ignorant fool.
Meter, then you eventually come to nanometer.. :oo so many decimal places are its demise. Roll Eyes

odolvlobo

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Quote from: kolev on February 04, 2014, 01:24:50 PM

One doesn't have to wonder why inflation is preferred to deflation and how impractical Bitcoin is in the real world. Imagine how psychologically unacceptable would be for you to get a declining salary every month? Adding trailing zeros than leading is also more practical.

You want a loaf of bread? No problem! It will just cost you 7500 of these:

Ok. No problem. Here you go:

R0yalAir

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Quote

does that sound easy, or practical to anyone?

you can easily send a bitcoin microtransaction anyway it's possible.

12648430

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Quote from: btc_shell on February 04, 2014, 01:14:56 PM

How can Bitcoin see worldwide use or even domination status when there are a relatively measly 21 million of them?

for example, who want to pay for a burger and fries by typing send 0.000000000000000000000001298374824124 into their smartphone at McDonalds? (McDonalds friendly tip!: remember to count the zeros exactly or you send 10 or even 100 times as much! oh my, OOPS! Cheesy

)

does that sound easy, or practical to anyone?

Bitcoin is doomed because of this. -or is it?

Please explain.

(-or could Satoshi save Bitcoin and us all by launching Bitcoin 2.0, and assigning a more realistic 100 Trillion of them? )

(Microtransactions are very small transactions. Buying a burger is not a microtransaction.)

You are proposing we replace the entire system rather than change the denominations we display things in to mBTC or something. You might want to reevaluate which would be easier.

12648430

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Quote from: MicroGuy on February 04, 2014, 09:04:50 PM

Quote from: btc_shell on February 04, 2014, 01:14:56 PM

How can Bitcoin see worldwide use or even domination status when there are a relatively measly 21 million of them?

This is one reason altcoins were invented. Cheesy

There are up to 21,000,000 BTC; each can be divided into 100,000,000 satoshis (currently). This allows for 2,100,000,000,000,000 units. If we need more divisibility than that, we can add it later; so "number of units" is not a limitation and never will be.

MicroGuy

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Twitter @realmicroguy

Quote from: btc_shell on February 04, 2014, 01:14:56 PM

How can Bitcoin see worldwide use or even domination status when there are a relatively measly 21 million of them?

This is one reason altcoins were invented. Cheesy

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

The assuming no error on the part of the client your tx was 5KB which is pretty massive especially for a tx of that value.
You get a lot of bitcoin spam payments (faucets, "free bitcoin sites", tell your mining pool to pay out every 0.1 mBTC, etc)?

vabtc

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on February 04, 2014, 04:54:30 PM

Quote from: vabtc on February 04, 2014, 01:28:03 PM

What $0.40 fee? Average tx size is 682 bytes. At 0.1 mBTC per KB that is $0.08 rounding up to nearest KB (current version) and $0.05 using actual size (planned for future version).

I may have to research this a little more, I sent .00042 to a charity as an example for someone and it charged me .0005 mBTC, not sure my why tx size was so large..it was through my blockchain iphone app so i ended up paying $.40 to send $.32.

Edit: .00092 was taken out, clarifying post

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: btc_shell on February 04, 2014, 01:14:56 PM

for example, who want to pay for a burger and fries by typing send 0.000000000000000000000001298374824124 into their smartphone at McDonalds? (McDonalds friendly tip!: remember to count the zeros exactly or you send 10 or even 100 times as much! oh my, OOPS! Cheesy

)

Or by then everyone's wallet displays in mBTC as a default and you pay 12 mBTC. Also nothing will ever cost as little as your example. Nothing, not even if Bitcoin becomes the one world currency.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: vabtc on February 04, 2014, 01:28:03 PM

This is why I still support litecoin even with the ASIC drama going on. Paying $5 in bitcoin is not really feasible right now given the $.40 fee but paying $5 in litecoin is a $.02 fee. I think they compliment each other, for now, until the BTC devs figure out a better fee scheme than what exists today. Their is room for a single crytpo wallet that lets people store and use the various coins that make it through this year with valid support/dev.

and if you get paid in BTC, your "salary" doesn't go down every month, you still make the same in fiat terms, bitcoin is just worth more. Ask Andreas if he minds...

What $0.40 fee? Average tx size is 682 bytes. At 0.1 mBTC per KB that is $0.08 rounding up to nearest KB (current version) and $0.05 using actual size (planned for future version).

exstasie

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Quote from: Meuh6879 on February 04, 2014, 04:49:17 PM

with 12Millions of BTC ... my McDo cost : 19mBTC.
not a big deal ... if the seller display a QR-CODE on his cash machine.

BITCOIN WORK WITH QR-CODE !

Exactly. You're not going to be typing in what you want to pay for. Your transaction will be displayed in the proper format, and just scan your QR code to pay!

Meuh6879

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with 12Millions of BTC ... my McDo cost : 19mBTC.
not a big deal ... if the seller display a QR-CODE on his cash machine.

BITCOIN WORK WITH QR-CODE !

BlockChainLottery

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AwesomeDice.net

The 21 million BTC supply should not be a problem. Just give it a different name and redefine it so it looks familiar in everyday life.

Deflation is only a matter of getting used to. In the eighteen hundreds people also experienced deflation, we just have never seen that before.

I don't see a real advantage of a little bit faster confirmation time. That can also be handled by companies or another layer of software or build in the business model to take the risk.

Why should micro-transactions be allowed with Bitcoin? It's not really necessary, you also don't make a bank transfers of 0.00000001 dollar.

Brangdon

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Quote from: btc_shell on February 04, 2014, 01:14:56 PM

for example, who want to pay for a burger and fries by typing send 0.000000000000000000000001298374824124 into their smartphone at McDonalds? (McDonalds friendly tip!: remember to count the zeros exactly or you send 10 or even 100 times as much! oh my, OOPS! Cheesy

)

We will use micro-BTC or kilo-Satoshi, or whatever is appropriate. It's a trivial issue.

The real problem with micro-transactions is that they clog up the block-chain. Fixing that will probably involve something layered on top of Bitcoin, such that not every micro-transaction is a Bitcoin transaction.

keithers

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This is the land of wolves now & you're not a wolf

Quote from: vabtc on February 04, 2014, 01:28:03 PM

This is why I still support litecoin even with the ASIC drama going on. Paying $5 in bitcoin is not really feasible right now given the $.40 fee but paying $5 in litecoin is a $.02 fee. I think they compliment each other, for now, until the BTC devs figure out a better fee scheme than what exists today. Their is room for a single crytpo wallet that lets people store and use the various coins that make it through this year with valid support/dev.

and if you get paid in BTC, your "salary" doesn't go down every month, you still make the same in fiat terms, bitcoin is just worth more. Ask Andreas if he minds...

I think that LTC could very well be used in the future for day to day transactions since the confirmation speed is quick also. I could see a day where BTC is used mainly as a store of value, and for purchases of large items (i.e. Cars, homes, etc), and LTC used for thinks like (food, clothes, etc)

kolev

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Quote from: vabtc on February 04, 2014, 01:28:03 PM

This is why I still support litecoin even with the ASIC drama going on. Paying $5 in bitcoin is not really feasible right now given the $.40 fee but paying $5 in litecoin is a $.02 fee. I think they compliment each other, for now, until the BTC devs figure out a better fee scheme than what exists today. Their is room for a single crytpo wallet that lets people store and use the various coins that make it through this year with valid support/dev.

and if you get paid in BTC, your "salary" doesn't go down every month, you still make the same in fiat terms, bitcoin is just worth more. Ask Andreas if he minds...

Regarding salary, I'm talking about the hypothetical scenario when Bitcoin is the world currency. In inflation, you get a raise every few months. In deflation, you will get a pay cut. You're not gonna get less in either scenario, I'm saying, it's a psychological issue, not economical.

Topic: Bitcoin microtransactions are it's eventual demise? (Read 1732 times)