Bitcoin mining will never pay off with GPUs for dedicated miners. - page 2.

Swishercutter

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Quote from: beeph on June 18, 2011, 11:56:37 PM

Quote from: Swishercutter on June 18, 2011, 11:54:58 PM

Quote from: Hook^ on June 18, 2011, 11:52:14 PM

Quote from: Swishercutter on June 18, 2011, 11:47:18 PM

Having a 5 day account and only posting things that discredit bitcoin/mtgox/client software...that points to obvious troll.

You seem to not listen. I have already explained this umpteen times, but I will try again:

I have never discredited bitcoin. I think it is a great investment. I only discredit dedicated mining for now.
Mt. Gox has a simple incompatability with IE 8, which I explained. Other than that, I have had no problem with Mt. Gox.
The client software, I have no idea about.

Click on your account tab...you are aware we can read all of your posts right? Tell me which one of your posts was helpful or new to the community. I couldn't find one.

so you read ALL his posts? jesus dude.. GET A LIFE.

There wasn't very many when I started...and since more than one thread was started for the same thing in the same day it seems odd.

As does some noob who supposedly dumps 10k into mining only to decide that he was stupid.

beeph

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Activity: 42

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Quote from: Swishercutter on June 18, 2011, 11:54:58 PM

Quote from: Hook^ on June 18, 2011, 11:52:14 PM

Quote from: Swishercutter on June 18, 2011, 11:47:18 PM

Having a 5 day account and only posting things that discredit bitcoin/mtgox/client software...that points to obvious troll.

You seem to not listen. I have already explained this umpteen times, but I will try again:

I have never discredited bitcoin. I think it is a great investment. I only discredit dedicated mining for now.
Mt. Gox has a simple incompatability with IE 8, which I explained. Other than that, I have had no problem with Mt. Gox.
The client software, I have no idea about.

Click on your account tab...you are aware we can read all of your posts right? Tell me which one of your posts was helpful or new to the community. I couldn't find one.

so you read ALL his posts? jesus dude.. GET A LIFE.

Swishercutter

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: Hook^ on June 18, 2011, 11:52:14 PM

Quote from: Swishercutter on June 18, 2011, 11:47:18 PM

Having a 5 day account and only posting things that discredit bitcoin/mtgox/client software...that points to obvious troll.

You seem to not listen. I have already explained this umpteen times, but I will try again:

I have never discredited bitcoin. I think it is a great investment. I only discredit dedicated mining for now.
Mt. Gox has a simple incompatability with IE 8, which I explained. Other than that, I have had no problem with Mt. Gox.
The client software, I have no idea about.

Click on your account tab...you are aware we can read all of your posts right? Tell me which one of your posts was helpful or new to the community. I couldn't find one.

Hook^

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Swishercutter on June 18, 2011, 11:47:18 PM

Having a 5 day account and only posting things that discredit bitcoin/mtgox/client software...that points to obvious troll.

You seem to not listen. I have already explained this umpteen times, but I will try again:

I have never discredited bitcoin. I think it is a great investment. I only discredit dedicated mining for now.
Mt. Gox has a simple incompatability with IE 8, which I explained. Other than that, I have had no problem with Mt. Gox.
The client software, I have no idea about.

beeph

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: Swishercutter on June 18, 2011, 11:47:18 PM

Quote from: beeph on June 18, 2011, 11:44:24 PM

Quote from: Swishercutter on June 18, 2011, 08:43:30 PM

Wow...starting multiple threads stating the same crap now.

Everyone, read all posts related to this troll before forming opinions.

I notice on here that people voicing non-majority opinions are now all 'trolls'

No...restating the obvious that has been posted in the sticky for months multiple times in multiple threads...that defines troll...making only negative comments without any new information...that defines troll.

Having a 5 day account and only posting things that discredit bitcoin/mtgox/client software...that points to obvious troll.

There is a pattern. BTW, beeph you sold that hardware yet...people are offering right?

so am I a troll now? for selling mining hardware on a mining forum? lol
get a life dude.. most people just got into this when they read the recent news blitz, thats why the accoutns are new, because they're NEWBIES. its not because they live to destroy bitcoins or whatever fantasies u've cooked up. And 90% of people (especially 35+) dont read all the articles and crap.. if people are repeating the same threads it might be, i dont know.. cuz its happening to lots of people and maybe its TRUE? i mean where there's smoke...

Most people on the bitcoin forums are FANS of bitcoins, and if they're griping about mining like I am, its because the calculators were misleading and they got in over their head. It's a complicated system, to say the least.

Swishercutter

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: beeph on June 18, 2011, 11:44:24 PM

Quote from: Swishercutter on June 18, 2011, 08:43:30 PM

Wow...starting multiple threads stating the same crap now.

Everyone, read all posts related to this troll before forming opinions.

I notice on here that people voicing non-majority opinions are now all 'trolls'

No...restating the obvious that has been posted in the sticky for months multiple times in multiple threads...that defines troll...making only negative comments without any new information...that defines troll.

Having a 5 day account and only posting things that discredit bitcoin/mtgox/client software...that points to obvious troll.

There is a pattern. BTW, beeph you sold that hardware yet...people are offering right?

beeph

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: Swishercutter on June 18, 2011, 08:43:30 PM

Wow...starting multiple threads stating the same crap now.

Everyone, read all posts related to this troll before forming opinions.

I notice on here that people voicing non-majority opinions are now all 'trolls'

jasonk

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Happy to say that in about 1.5 months, I've more than paid off my $1000 hardware costs. I've earned about $500 an top of the $1000 hardware investment.

I do agree though bitcoin mining is not nearly as profitable as a few weeks ago when coins were worth $30+ and difficulty level was 500K.

chungenhung

legendary

Activity: 1134

Merit: 1005

no one really knows, as you can't predict the future.
Just remember, when there is profit to be made, there will always be risk associated.

Hook^

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Mageant on June 18, 2011, 09:46:18 PM

As a rule of thumb, compare the amount of bitcoins you could buy with the money for your hardware with the number of bitcoins you will be able to mine considering increasing difficulty. Whatever is higher is better. (Note: this does not include the price of electricity).

That is the central problem. The difficulty doubles every 18 days. Which means your output halves every 18 days. Until that gets more reasonable, you can't make a profit.

See http://bitcoin.sipa.be/ to see the increase curves.

Mageant

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As a rule of thumb, compare the amount of bitcoins you could buy with the money for your hardware with the number of bitcoins you will be able to mine considering increasing difficulty. Whatever is higher is better. (Note: this does not include the price of electricity).

Hook^

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Swishercutter on June 18, 2011, 09:37:28 PM

So you are encouraging people to buy bitcoin and discouraging mining...so my guess is you are a miner trying to get the difficulty to drop or an investor trying to get the value to go up (or both), either way...good luck. It can only improve my position at this point.

Well, I doubt I am going to make enough difference in a forum to change the price of anything either way. I'm certainly not going to change the 4% per day of network growth.

I'm not discouraging mining either. If you already have a gaming machine, you would be a fool not to mine, since it would be free money. I'm just saying to not buy a new machine only for mining that you will never use for anything else.

Again, if the network growth goes down to 2% or so, it will make sense to buy hardware again.

Unless you think bitcoins are likely to seriously drop, in which case, you should buy mining hardware as a hedge.

Swishercutter

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Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: Hook^ on June 18, 2011, 09:24:13 PM

Quote from: rograz on June 18, 2011, 09:18:02 PM

Quote from: Hook^ on June 18, 2011, 09:05:55 PM

What I am saying is that you will get a better return just buying right now. Unless you already have a gaming machine, or are going to buy a machine for gaming as well. Then it is just free money until the power costs more than the bitcoins.

The growth rate of difficulty has been 4% a day for the last year, so yes, mining rigs have been less profitable than just buying bitcoins for the last year. If the network growth slows down to ~2.5% a year, then it starts making sense. The first year of bitcoin, the growth rate was almost flat, so you could make more money mining than buying bitcoins.

Keep in mind this is only about dedicated mining rigs. If you already have the equipment, there is nothing to lose by mining. At least for another 60 days when it reaches electricity costs.

Obviously, higher risks generally means greater chance at making it big but you also pose the risk of losing more, anything else would be silly. But just because I was willing to sink 2k$ into hardware doesn't mean I would ever have spent that much directly into BTC at the stage when I entered into mining so the 2 are never directly comparable unless we start talking about a larger scale of investment.

That is true. In the end even if bitcoins go to $0, you will still have some hardware you can sell on ebay. So it is better to say that if the price of bitcoins goes down, buying hardware has a greater return (less loss) than buying bitcoins themselves. But if bitcoins go up, they are a better investment as long as the network growth is above 2.5% a day.

So you are encouraging people to buy bitcoin and discouraging mining...so my guess is you are a miner trying to get the difficulty to drop or an investor trying to get the value to go up (or both), either way...good luck. It can only improve my position at this point.

Hook^

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Quote from: rograz on June 18, 2011, 09:18:02 PM

Quote from: Hook^ on June 18, 2011, 09:05:55 PM

What I am saying is that you will get a better return just buying right now. Unless you already have a gaming machine, or are going to buy a machine for gaming as well. Then it is just free money until the power costs more than the bitcoins.

The growth rate of difficulty has been 4% a day for the last year, so yes, mining rigs have been less profitable than just buying bitcoins for the last year. If the network growth slows down to ~2.5% a year, then it starts making sense. The first year of bitcoin, the growth rate was almost flat, so you could make more money mining than buying bitcoins.

Keep in mind this is only about dedicated mining rigs. If you already have the equipment, there is nothing to lose by mining. At least for another 60 days when it reaches electricity costs.

Obviously, higher risks generally means greater chance at making it big but you also pose the risk of losing more, anything else would be silly. But just because I was willing to sink 2k$ into hardware doesn't mean I would ever have spent that much directly into BTC at the stage when I entered into mining so the 2 are never directly comparable unless we start talking about a larger scale of investment.

That is true. In the end even if bitcoins go to $0, you will still have some hardware you can sell on ebay. So it is better to say that if the price of bitcoins goes down, buying hardware has a greater return (less loss) than buying bitcoins themselves. But if bitcoins go up, they are a better investment as long as the network growth is above 2.5% a day.

rograz

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Quote from: Hook^ on June 18, 2011, 09:05:55 PM

What I am saying is that you will get a better return just buying right now. Unless you already have a gaming machine, or are going to buy a machine for gaming as well. Then it is just free money until the power costs more than the bitcoins.

The growth rate of difficulty has been 4% a day for the last year, so yes, mining rigs have been less profitable than just buying bitcoins for the last year. If the network growth slows down to ~2.5% a year, then it starts making sense. The first year of bitcoin, the growth rate was almost flat, so you could make more money mining than buying bitcoins.

Keep in mind this is only about dedicated mining rigs. If you already have the equipment, there is nothing to lose by mining. At least for another 60 days when it reaches electricity costs.

Obviously, higher risks generally means greater chance at making it big but you also pose the risk of losing more, anything else would be silly. But just because I was willing to sink 2k$ into hardware doesn't mean I would ever have spent that much directly into BTC at the stage when I entered into mining so the 2 are never directly comparable unless we start talking about a larger scale of investment.

Hook^

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Hook^ on June 18, 2011, 09:05:55 PM

Quote from: rograz on June 18, 2011, 08:59:33 PM

Quote from: Hook^ on June 18, 2011, 08:47:30 PM

Yes please do, because I am pretty sure I am correct. I am sorry about your hostility.

With your logic buying mining hardware would never have been able to pay itself off, is it more risky buying mining hardware today than it was a month ago or a year ago? perhaps, but then again mining was never a guaranteed return and neither was buying bitcoins directly either. There is no risk free way of getting into the bitcoin economy and as everyone else keeps saying never put money into hardware or BTC you cant afford to lose.

What I am saying is that you will get a better return just buying right now. Unless you already have a gaming machine, or are going to buy a machine for gaming as well. Then it is just free money until the power costs more than the bitcoins.

The growth rate of difficulty has been 4% a day for the last year, so yes, mining rigs have been less profitable than just buying bitcoins for the last year. If the network growth slows down to ~2.5% a year, then it starts making sense. The first year of bitcoin, the growth rate was almost flat, so you could make more money mining than buying bitcoins.

Keep in mind this is only about dedicated mining rigs. If you already have the equipment, there is nothing to lose by mining. At least for another 60 days when it reaches electricity costs.

Sorry, I meant 2.5% per day or less

Swishercutter

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Activity: 210

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Quote from: Hook^ on June 18, 2011, 09:00:33 PM

Quote from: Mousepotato on June 18, 2011, 08:57:49 PM

Oh look, it's this thread again.

Well, I guess others have already made this point before, so I don't need to bother. I just don't want to see people lose money based on a decision from a bitcoin calculator that doesn't take bitcoin difficulty growth into consideration.

I think he literally meant this thread again as in the identical thread started by you...not that others had stated it...that you stated it.

Hook^

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Activity: 56

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Quote from: rograz on June 18, 2011, 08:59:33 PM

Quote from: Hook^ on June 18, 2011, 08:47:30 PM

Yes please do, because I am pretty sure I am correct. I am sorry about your hostility.

With your logic buying mining hardware would never have been able to pay itself off, is it more risky buying mining hardware today than it was a month ago or a year ago? perhaps, but then again mining was never a guaranteed return and neither was buying bitcoins directly either. There is no risk free way of getting into the bitcoin economy and as everyone else keeps saying never put money into hardware or BTC you cant afford to lose.

What I am saying is that you will get a better return just buying right now. Unless you already have a gaming machine, or are going to buy a machine for gaming as well. Then it is just free money until the power costs more than the bitcoins.

The growth rate of difficulty has been 4% a day for the last year, so yes, mining rigs have been less profitable than just buying bitcoins for the last year. If the network growth slows down to ~2.5% a year, then it starts making sense. The first year of bitcoin, the growth rate was almost flat, so you could make more money mining than buying bitcoins.

Keep in mind this is only about dedicated mining rigs. If you already have the equipment, there is nothing to lose by mining. At least for another 60 days when it reaches electricity costs.

Swishercutter

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: Hook^ on June 18, 2011, 09:00:33 PM

Quote from: Mousepotato on June 18, 2011, 08:57:49 PM

Oh look, it's this thread again.

Well, I guess others have already made this point before, so I don't need to bother. I just don't want to see people lose money based on a decision from a bitcoin calculator that doesn't take bitcoin difficulty growth into consideration.

Obvious troll is obvious troll, you made a new thread because we proved you were a troll in the last thread that stated the same garbage.

Hook^

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Mousepotato on June 18, 2011, 08:57:49 PM

Oh look, it's this thread again.

Well, I guess others have already made this point before, so I don't need to bother. I just don't want to see people lose money based on a decision from a bitcoin calculator that doesn't take bitcoin difficulty growth into consideration.

Topic: Bitcoin mining will never pay off with GPUs for dedicated miners. - page 2. (Read 12654 times)