Bitcoin offline wallet suggestion | Bitcointalksearch.org

Captain-Cryptory

newbie

Activity: 23

Merit: 853

Quote from: bob123 on May 28, 2020, 09:52:25 AM

I hope this cleared out any misconceptions you had regarding wallet types. If you still have any further questions, feel free to ask.

Thanks, I have no misconceptions regarding to the wallet types and just wanted to emphasize that is is better to make difference between "offline" and "cold" wallet. Yes, cold wallet = wallet which is offline (more precise definition is in one of my above posts) , but not necessarily vice versa. Such situation when "offline wallet" ≠ "cold wallet" (there are plenty of them, Armory is not a single example) can be described by the concept of "wallet in offline mode". So it's better to not equate offline wallet and the cold one. I've been dealing with the ignorant people who were thinking they have cold wallet once router goes offline and their client shows "offline" - message.

Captain-Cryptory

newbie

Activity: 23

Merit: 853

Quote from: bob123 on May 28, 2020, 08:19:12 AM

There is nothing in between.

Sorry, but there's something in between. There are a hot wallet which is sitting on online computer and capable to both sign and broadcast transaction, the cold wallet (on air-gapped device) with the function to sign transaction but not to broadcast it and the wallet in offline mode (holding public keys solely but on online machine) and the ability to broadcast trx but not sign it . The latter wallet is in between and such hierarchy is more understandable, for myself at least.

Captain-Cryptory

newbie

Activity: 23

Merit: 853

Quote from: bob123 on May 28, 2020, 04:09:08 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I'm not speaking of you but many bodies may be in confused by these two concepts - "offline mode" for wallet and "offline" wallet. So it's better to keep in mind such definition as

So, what exactly is the difference in your eyes ?
If a devices goes online, it is not an offline wallet. And also can't be called "offline mode".

What is the difference according to you ?

Quote from: ?? on ??

Cold wallet = "wallet completely and always offline" on fully air-gapped computer that prevents it from communications through any channels including the side ones.

And that is exactly what an offline wallet is too.
Your definition of a cold wallet now exactly is the definition of an offline wallet.

Nope and nope

Read carefully what this wallet says - "create from an Offline/Watching-Only wallet to be signed by the computer with full wallet". Deciphering for you - Offline/Watching-Only wallet is a hot wallet running in offline mode on online computer that is capable to create the raw transaction to be signed by full wallet running on air-gapped machine. The full wallet running on air-gapped computer = cold wallet. So you wanna me to to turn all thing upside down. But I'm refusing to do that. Period. Bold.

bob123

legendary

Activity: 1624

Merit: 2481

Quote from: Captain-Cryptory on May 29, 2020, 02:54:14 AM

Yes, cold wallet = wallet which is offline (more precise definition is in one of my above posts) , but not necessarily vice versa.

If the private keys are not stored on a completely air-gapped system with no interfaces (wifi, bluetooth, etc..), it can not be considered an offline wallet (and neither a cold wallet).
So there is still no difference between those two terms.

Quote from: Captain-Cryptory on May 29, 2020, 02:54:14 AM

Such situation when "offline wallet" ≠ "cold wallet" (there are plenty of them, Armory is not a single example) can be described by the concept of "wallet in offline mode". So it's better to not equate offline wallet and the cold one.

See above.
If a wallet either:
1) has been generated on an online device
2) is at some point online
3) is not completely isolated

it can not be considered an offline- or cold wallet.
There is no offline wallet which does not meet the criteria.

A cold wallet is an offline wallet. This includes cold-wallet setups and paper wallets.

Quote from: Captain-Cryptory on May 29, 2020, 02:54:14 AM

I've been dealing with the ignorant people who were thinking they have cold wallet once router goes offline and their client shows "offline" - message.

Sure, there are people who think that when your computers goes offline for an hour, it can be considered an offline wallet.
But this obviously is wrong.

bob123

legendary

Activity: 1624

Merit: 2481

Quote from: Captain-Cryptory on May 28, 2020, 09:40:57 AM

There are a hot wallet which is sitting on online computer and capable to both sign and broadcast transaction,

Yes. A standard hot wallet.

Quote from: Captain-Cryptory on May 28, 2020, 09:40:57 AM

the cold wallet (on air-gapped device) with the function to sign transaction but not to broadcast it and

Yes. A standard cold-/offline wallet.

Quote from: Captain-Cryptory on May 28, 2020, 09:40:57 AM

the wallet in offline mode (holding public keys solely but on online machine) and the ability to broadcast trx but not sign it .

What you are describing here is a watch-only wallet.
This has nothing to do with "offline mode". This wallet is run on an online computer. That's far away from being offline.

This is a watch-only wallet: A wallet which contains the master public key to derive public keys / addresses and to create unsigned transactions.

Why anyone would call that an "offline mode" is beyond my imagination.

But now i understand where your confusion comes from.
What armory means with "watch-only/offline" is to create a transaction on the watch-only wallet and use the offline wallet to sign it. That's why there is "offline" in the security-tab for this setup.
The phrasing is pretty bad.

I hope this cleared out any misconceptions you had regarding wallet types. If you still have any further questions, feel free to ask.

bob123

legendary

Activity: 1624

Merit: 2481

Quote from: Captain-Cryptory on May 28, 2020, 08:06:46 AM

Read carefully what this wallet says - "create from an Offline/Watching-Only wallet to be signed by the computer with full wallet".

So ?
How is that related to the fact that each cold wallet is an offline wallet and each offline wallet is a cold wallet ?

Quote from: Captain-Cryptory on May 28, 2020, 08:06:46 AM

Deciphering for you - Offline/Watching-Only wallet is a hot wallet running in offline mode on online computer that is capable to create the raw transaction to be signed by full wallet running on air-gapped computer.

"hot wallet running in offline mode on online computer" Huh

This doesn't even make sense.

You can not run a hot wallet in "offline mode" on an online computer.

There are 2 options:
1) It is a hot wallet. Then an "offline mode" itself does not exist. Even if your PC is offline for a specific timeframe, it still has nothing to do with an offline wallet or so-called "offline mode". It it is stored on an network-connected device, it is a hot wallet.
2) It is an offline wallet which means it is stored on a device which will never be connected to a network. In this case it has nothing to do with a hot wallet.

Quote from: Captain-Cryptory on May 28, 2020, 08:06:46 AM

The full wallet running on air-gapped computer = cold wallet. Period. Bold.

Yes. And another term would be: offline wallet.
If your private keys are not on an always-offline and air-gapped device, this is not an offline wallet and not a cold wallet.

I agree with you that armory did phrase that quite ambiguous.
However, by pure logic..
Either your private keys are stored on a device which is connected to the internet / a network (even if only for a short amount of time): Not am offline wallet, not a cold wallet.
Or, your private keys are stored on an offline device / not connected to any network: Offline / cold wallet.

There is nothing in between.

bob123

legendary

Activity: 1624

Merit: 2481

Quote from: ?? on ??

I'm not speaking of you but many bodies may be in confused by these two concepts - "offline mode" for wallet and "offline" wallet. So it's better to keep in mind such definition as

So, what exactly is the difference in your eyes ?
If a devices goes online, it is not an offline wallet. And also can't be called "offline mode".

What is the difference according to you ?

Quote from: ?? on ??

Cold wallet = "wallet completely and always offline" on fully air-gapped computer that prevents it from communications through any channels including the side ones.

And that is exactly what an offline wallet is too.
Your definition of a cold wallet now exactly is the definition of an offline wallet.

pooya87

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 10611

Quote from: blue Snow on May 28, 2020, 12:05:10 AM

Quote from: HammadAli on May 07, 2020, 12:45:58 PM

Hello. I want to know about any bitcoin offline wallet which includes no third party. And can that wallet be hacked if I don't input any kind of malicious file or connect the device to Internet?

Easy way is download electrum wallet, then cut off your internet, generated address, write down you electrum seed in paper and keep it safe place.

the question is already answered and now you are just giving bad advice.
by cutting off your internet you are not really increasing your security, being offline means using the wallet software on an "airgapped" computer which is a system that has never been connected to the internet during its existence and will never be connected to the internet.
additionally an important step was skipped here which was verifying the signature of the software that were downloaded in this case Electrum which could be considered more important than going offline.

blue Snow

legendary

Activity: 1526

Merit: 1032

Up to 300% + 200 FS deposit bonuses

Quote from: HammadAli on May 07, 2020, 12:45:58 PM

Hello. I want to know about any bitcoin offline wallet which includes no third party. And can that wallet be hacked if I don't input any kind of malicious file or connect the device to Internet?

Easy way is download electrum wallet, then cut off your internet, generated address, write down you electrum seed in paper and keep it safe place.
what next you can do publish your address only.

Quote from: DDante on May 27, 2020, 02:51:21 AM

You can buy hardware wallet but you will still need to move your coins into the hardware wallet which requires internet connection, or find Bitcoin paper wallet, they are more secured than others, you will have to safeguard your recovery seed though

my assume HammadAli haven't bitcoin yet, so don't need to move his bitcoin. as I know paper wallet recovery private key only, not seed.

Quote from: XenoFever on May 27, 2020, 03:32:53 AM

I suggest to us the Trezor, it can store so many cryptocurrencies compared to other wallets.

Ledger wallet has multi cryptocurrency too.

RapTarX

hero member

Activity: 1358

Merit: 851

Paper wallet would be the best bet for you in this case if you generate it properly as said above. To know more about Generating paper wallet properly and securely, you can check this thread- we had a long ddiscussion there- https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/generating-a-paper-wallet-securely-5198310

coolcoinz

legendary

Activity: 2814

Merit: 1192

I've always believed in the good old cold wallet method where your coins are kept offline and every time you need to send a transaction or receive it you just bring that wallet online for a few minutes, do your thing and disconnect it again. I've been doing it for many years and technically, as long as you keep your storage machine clean and don't browse the Internet with it, there's no way to get hacked or infected. Even if you had some hacker trying to break in, your machine isn't online for long enough to allow anyone to take control.

XenoFever

member

Activity: 127

Merit: 28

There are many wallets we can use to store our bitcoin or other cryptocurrency and one of the most secured wallets to use is the hardware wallet, I suggest to us the Trezor, it can store so many cryptocurrencies compared to other wallets.

Take a look with this thread for more information: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/general-bitcoin-wallets-which-what-why-1631151

DDante

member

Activity: 434

Merit: 19

Quote from: HammadAli on May 07, 2020, 12:45:58 PM

Hello. I want to know about any bitcoin offline wallet which includes no third party. And can that wallet be hacked if I don't input any kind of malicious file or connect the device to Internet?

You can buy hardware wallet but you will still need to move your coins into the hardware wallet which requires internet connection, or find Bitcoin paper wallet, they are more secured than others, you will have to safeguard your recovery seed though

bob123

legendary

Activity: 1624

Merit: 2481

Quote from: ?? on ??

[...] Nevertheless, it has helped to revive the original meaning of two terms i.e. "cold wallet" and "offline wallets" and show they are not equal in the sense of security they provide.

I actually never heard the terms being used in a different context.
Whenever i heard cold wallet it absolutely meant offline wallet and vice versa.

A Wallet operated offline is an offline wallet and a cold wallet.
There is nothing in between.

Either it is completely offline or it is not.
A wallet which partially is offline, is neither an offline wallet nor a cold wallet.

Whether and how the device has been used prior to serve as an offline/cold wallet doesn't matter for the terminology.
Cold wallet = wallet completely and always offline = offline wallet.

bob123

legendary

Activity: 1624

Merit: 2481

Quote from: ?? on ??

The experienced attacker may obtain privileges to modify a variety of firmware (ranging from BIOS to various controllers that go on round under the hood) that are out of sight of the fresh OS. That sumps it all up, the fresh OS will not help to make "old' computer to look like it "absolutely never has been online".

If we are talking at that level, you also have to consider that it IS possible to infiltrate an completely air-gapped system.
Regardless of whether it ever has been online or not.

And additionally, the hardware supply chain can be a huge problem.
There are multiple points in the supply chain where your hardware can be manipulated (your hardware wallet or motherboard, CPU, etc..):
Chip design, preperation of the masks, IC test and packaging, PC assembly, vendor, distributor and anywhere in between.

With these considerations, you should keep in mind that every system always can be compromised.
You will never reach absolute security. All you can do is to minimize the risk.

If you plan on storing a few millions worth of BTC and are telling everyone you own that much.. yes. Maybe use a brand new PC to be a little more on the safe side.
If that is not the case, you practically don't gain much.

bob123

legendary

Activity: 1624

Merit: 2481

Quote from: ?? on ??

Even if the wallet is completely operated offline but is running on machine that was online in the past such storage, and consequently a wallet can not be regarded as the cold one because computer might be compromised in the past and remain in that condition when the so call "cold offline" wallet signs transaction. I think the possible aftermath of that is clear.

The true cold wallet is the wallet that runs on computer which is offline, never been online and will never be connected to Internet by any means and that is the air-gaped machine.

I expected it is considered standard to reinstall a new OS when setting up a cold wallet setup. This might not be the case.
However, you can definitely use an older computer (which has been online) as a cold storage medium for your crypto.
Just install a new fresh OS and don't go online with it. Remove all interfaces for it to be air-gapped and you are pretty much fine already.

You don't need to use a device which absolutely never has been online.

bob123

legendary

Activity: 1624

Merit: 2481

Quote from: ?? on ??

Offline mode is not the same as the "cold" one. While all known BTC wallets can be offline stuck only three of them ,AFAIK, (i.e. Electrum Armory and Bitcoin Core) allow truly cold operation on the air gaped computers. The most easiest to implement options of these three are Electrum and Armory. Or do you have a list of BTC cold wallets which is different from mine?

A wallet completely operated offline, is a cold wallet.
It does not have to be a wallet marketed as a cold wallet (e.g. armory).

You can use whatever form of storage you like. As long as it is completely offline, it is cold storage.

This includes armory, core, electrum as well as a paper wallet, a mobile wallet or any other kind of software (or even hardware) wallet.
The crucial point is that the generation and the usage has to be completely offline.

Negotiation

sr. member

Activity: 1204

Merit: 270

Hire Bitcointalk Camp. Manager @ r7promotions.com

There are many wallets on Bitcoin offline but it is usually up to us which one to use I think Bitcoin is a better hardware wallet than an offline wallet so we can use it both offline and online The chances of being hacked here are very low. Our bitcoins will be much safer I usually use a hardware wallet and are reliable.

bob123

legendary

Activity: 1624

Merit: 2481

Quote from: HammadAli on May 21, 2020, 05:44:37 PM

I want to know about any wallet for windows where security is the first priority and breaking in through Internet should be difficult. Paper wallets can be good for it or hardware wallet?

If you want to be secured from online attack vectors, you need to choose an offline (or semi-offline) type of wallet.

A paper wallet is probable the more secure one, if you:

know how to properly create it offline on a clean machine
know how to properly spend from it on a clean machine

The disadvantages are that generation and spending from it can be quite a hassle. Especially for people who don't do this often.

A hardware on the other hand has the advantages:

better usability
easier setup

The disadvantage is that it is not free. But you will have an easier time setting it up and using it.

Both of them are kind of secure against online attacks.
If you are regularly spending coins, i'd recommend you a hardware wallet.

Alucard1

full member

Activity: 574

Merit: 125

Choosing the best cryptocurrency is really important for every person in the crypto world. It will make our money safe from hackers. The offline wallet is the best wallet to use compared to other wallets.

Choosing the best crypto wallet for you will depend on you, if you are holding many different cryptocurrencies, you may use the Trezor, I suggest Trezor as the best offline wallet, I've been using this wallet for almost 5 years and good thing is that I don't have any experience about hacking.

Topic: Bitcoin offline wallet suggestion (Read 681 times)