Bitcoin or gold? - page 541. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Erdogan

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Quote from: markj113 on June 27, 2015, 05:07:16 PM

Quote from: Scamc0p on June 27, 2015, 04:29:14 PM

Was watching a program recently and they were saying that fort knox does not have that much gold yet they everybody claims that is where all the US gold is kept. Then why all the high security to keep an empty building protected when it has little gold in it?

Think you kinda missed the point of that program, they wont admit there is fuck all left and will not allow an independent audit.

Imaginary gold is still good for scaring; If we sell it all....

markj113

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Quote from: Scamc0p on June 27, 2015, 04:29:14 PM

Was watching a program recently and they were saying that fort knox does not have that much gold yet they everybody claims that is where all the US gold is kept. Then why all the high security to keep an empty building protected when it has little gold in it?

Think you kinda missed the point of that program, they wont admit there is fuck all left and will not allow an independent audit.

gentlemand

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Quote from: Scamc0p on June 27, 2015, 04:29:14 PM

Was watching a program recently and they were saying that fort knox does not have that much gold yet they everybody claims that is where all the US gold is kept. Then why all the high security to keep an empty building protected when it has little gold in it?

To stop their numerous creditors going fucking insane when they realise the gold doesn't exist.

No one, but no one, has been allowed in there since 1974 and it hasn't been properly audited since the 1930s. That's a lot of time to play fractional reserve gold. Read up about what happened when Germany asked for their gold back from the US.

Scamc0p

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Was watching a program recently and they were saying that fort knox does not have that much gold yet they everybody claims that is where all the US gold is kept. Then why all the high security to keep an empty building protected when it has little gold in it?

jt byte

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Gold has a stable price right now, BTC will probably rise much higher then gold I believe. But that's just my 2 sats.

Amph

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Quote from: bytezero on June 27, 2015, 12:51:27 PM

I'll agree that there are pros and cons but with so much fake gold out there, I would walk away with bitcoins. Chances are the gold was tungsten filled

same you can't fake bitcoin so easily beisides double spending, also gold is more restricted in term of control from autorithy, there is zero privacy at all, while bitcoin, if you don't exchange them you can hold a fortune and no one will ever know about it

Erdogan

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 27, 2015, 01:00:35 PM

Quote from: Erdogan on June 27, 2015, 07:59:00 AM

No fake ~~titanium~~ tungsten "gold" coin has been found yet. They are not so easy to make. With gold coins, you can mostly be safe by looking at the coin, and holding it. If you have a coin just like it, to compare, it is even better. If that is not enough, there are coin testers available.

Scammers are very innovative nowadays. What they did was first they purchased real gold bars from Pamp Suisse, complete with registration number and possession documents. Then they carved out the gold from the inside, and filled it with molten tungsten. After this, they sealed the core using molten gold. As they had the valid documents no one would have doubted about the purity of gold.

I don't know how difficult it is, to perform this trick on a 1 Oz gold eagle coin.

You are talking about bars. Coins, not easy.

camelson

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Quote from: bytezero on June 27, 2015, 12:51:27 PM

I'll agree that there are pros and cons but with so much fake gold out there, I would walk away with bitcoins. Chances are the gold was tungsten filled

I think I will go for the gold, because gold is some thing that i really think it will never be vanished or scammed me, or some one scam me. But BTC it could be possible that some one will scam me at any time, when im trading, the site in which i deposited my btc. These are the things that i will go for gold.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Erdogan on June 27, 2015, 07:59:00 AM

No fake ~~titanium~~ tungsten "gold" coin has been found yet. They are not so easy to make. With gold coins, you can mostly be safe by looking at the coin, and holding it. If you have a coin just like it, to compare, it is even better. If that is not enough, there are coin testers available.

Scammers are very innovative nowadays. What they did was first they purchased real gold bars from Pamp Suisse, complete with registration number and possession documents. Then they carved out the gold from the inside, and filled it with molten tungsten. After this, they sealed the core using molten gold. As they had the valid documents no one would have doubted about the purity of gold.

I don't know how difficult it is, to perform this trick on a 1 Oz gold eagle coin.

bytezero

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I'll agree that there are pros and cons but with so much fake gold out there, I would walk away with bitcoins. Chances are the gold was tungsten filled

Erdogan

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 27, 2015, 07:12:38 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 27, 2015, 05:32:43 AM

I think that hiding fiat as cash is not much harder than hiding physical gold or silver. In fact, paper money is even easier to hide. You can't saw a gold bullion in half (of course, you can physically, but I guess that would be the last thing you might want to do), but you can easily divide a stack of cash (of the gold nugget's worth) into smaller portions and hide them in different places...

I was just implying that storing the wealth in the form of fiat banknotes might take up a lot of space when compared to storing the bullion bars / coins or diamonds, making it more prone to seizure by the state.

Quote from: Erdogan on June 27, 2015, 06:49:57 AM

Not the same. Gold has all the good money qualities. It is easy to recognize a good coin by the feel in your hand, not so with precious stones.

Recently, 10 Oz (321.5 gram) gold bars in New York were found having a titanium core inside. So it is possible to fool investors and collectors with bullion coins and bars.

http://www.businessinsider.com/fake-gold-bars-2012-9?IR=T

No fake ~~titanium~~ tungsten "gold" coin has been found yet. They are not so easy to make. With gold coins, you can mostly be safe by looking at the coin, and holding it. If you have a coin just like it, to compare, it is even better. If that is not enough, there are coin testers available.

Edit: It must be tungsten (wolfram). Titanium is a rather light material.

deisik

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 27, 2015, 07:12:38 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 27, 2015, 05:32:43 AM

I think that hiding fiat as cash is not much harder than hiding physical gold or silver. In fact, paper money is even easier to hide. You can't saw a gold bullion in half (of course, you can physically, but I guess that would be the last thing you might want to do), but you can easily divide a stack of cash (of the gold nugget's worth) into smaller portions and hide them in different places...

I was just implying that storing the wealth in the form of fiat banknotes might take up a lot of space when compared to storing the bullion bars / coins or diamonds, making it more prone to seizure by the state.

I guess you are wrong on this too. A 100 dollar bill is currently the largest US denomination in general circulation. A packet of one hundred $100 bills contains $10,000 and is less than 1/2" thick, weighing around 100 grams (fits easily in your pocket). Now compare 4 such packets ($40,000 and 400 grams), which you can conveniently put in your side and inner pockets (and flee away), with a standard gold bar of 1000 grams in mass (32.15 ounces, and roughly the same value), which is used extensively for trading and investment...

Which is easier to carry and store?

markj113

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 27, 2015, 07:12:38 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 27, 2015, 05:32:43 AM

I think that hiding fiat as cash is not much harder than hiding physical gold or silver. In fact, paper money is even easier to hide. You can't saw a gold bullion in half (of course, you can physically, but I guess that would be the last thing you might want to do), but you can easily divide a stack of cash (of the gold nugget's worth) into smaller portions and hide them in different places...

I was just implying that storing the wealth in the form of fiat banknotes might take up a lot of space when compared to storing the bullion bars / coins or diamonds, making it more prone to seizure by the state.

Quote from: Erdogan on June 27, 2015, 06:49:57 AM

Not the same. Gold has all the good money qualities. It is easy to recognize a good coin by the feel in your hand, not so with precious stones.

Recently, 10 Oz (321.5 gram) gold bars in New York were found having a titanium core inside. So it is possible to fool investors and collectors with bullion coins and bars.

http://www.businessinsider.com/fake-gold-bars-2012-9?IR=T

That story is from 2012 so not recent and its tungsten not titanium.

There are fakes and scams wherever there is money present. Take a look in the scam section of this website and thats not including some of the huge scams that have taken place for some serious amount of BTC.

As with everything due diligence is required.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: deisik on June 27, 2015, 05:32:43 AM

I think that hiding fiat as cash is not much harder than hiding physical gold or silver. In fact, paper money is even easier to hide. You can't saw a gold bullion in half (of course, you can physically, but I guess that would be the last thing you might want to do), but you can easily divide a stack of cash (of the gold nugget's worth) into smaller portions and hide them in different places...

I was just implying that storing the wealth in the form of fiat banknotes might take up a lot of space when compared to storing the bullion bars / coins or diamonds, making it more prone to seizure by the state.

Quote from: Erdogan on June 27, 2015, 06:49:57 AM

Not the same. Gold has all the good money qualities. It is easy to recognize a good coin by the feel in your hand, not so with precious stones.

Recently, 10 Oz (321.5 gram) gold bars in New York were found having a titanium core inside. So it is possible to fool investors and collectors with bullion coins and bars.

http://www.businessinsider.com/fake-gold-bars-2012-9?IR=T

Erdogan

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Quote from: GreenStox on June 24, 2015, 07:26:07 PM

Gold is a very interesting element out there, but despite it's appeal, it is very hard for me to consider it money.

Its the same as diamonds, emeralds and rubys, all of them are shiny precious assets, but none of them are money, they are just valuable commodities

Bitcoin is money.

Not the same. Gold has all the good money qualities. It is easy to recognize a good coin by the feel in your hand, not so with precious stones.

deisik

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 26, 2015, 11:57:08 PM

Quote from: jones techbit on June 26, 2015, 09:00:54 AM

Gold and Silver just isn't practical at the moment with how easy it is for authorities to seize it and they have absolutely no respect for personal property or privacy

I agree that if you store bullion in bank lockers or in the form of ETF, it makes the deposits more vulnerable to seizure. But if you keep gold in the physical form, and store it by yourself, it will be quite hard for the authorities to confiscate it. It is very easy to hide physical gold or silver, unlike the case with fiat cash or equities.

I think that hiding fiat as cash is not much harder than hiding physical gold or silver. In fact, paper money is even easier to hide. You can't saw a gold bullion in half (of course, you can physically, but I guess that would be the last thing you might want to do), but you can easily divide a stack of cash (of the gold nugget's worth) into smaller portions and hide them in different places...

Anony

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Quote from: BTCevo on June 26, 2015, 09:17:51 AM

Quote from: Drogon on June 25, 2015, 05:02:29 AM

In my opinion bit coin has all the properties of gold plus extra which just improves it.

Nope, bitcoin is winning about its technology, and the speed of transcation and yes the volatile price Grin

and there is nothing else

Quote from: Anony on June 26, 2015, 05:59:48 AM

It is difficult to change the of people to invest in bitcoins either invest in gold.
Both have their own values ,bitcoins need support mainly due to market demand,increased investments and network effect.
Similarly, gold has set a standard in the economy and it is going to maintain it in the future too.
On comparing, Bitcoin is ideal for everyday transaction and gold is still important in rebuilding the economy. Grin

Its true both of them have their own values, but gold is kind of promising investment if you compared to bitcoin. I dont know what people said about bitcoin but what I do know is bitcoin is just some kind of short investment but gold is a long investment. I didnt say you can't invest both, may be you can diversify it but you must take a deep closer look which one is really worth to invest

Investment in bitcoin may be future plan.It is not suceed yet .Bitcoin at early stage have drawbacks,its difficult to convey people to invest in bitcoin .
now bitcoin is popular in business ,corporate world.
It is worth of keeping bitcoins for short time investment.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: jones techbit on June 26, 2015, 09:00:54 AM

Gold and Silver just isn't practical at the moment with how easy it is for authorities to seize it and they have absolutely no respect for personal property or privacy

I agree that if you store bullion in bank lockers or in the form of ETF, it makes the deposits more vulnerable to seizure. But if you keep gold in the physical form, and store it by yourself, it will be quite hard for the authorities to confiscate it. It is very easy to hide physical gold or silver, unlike the case with fiat cash or equities.

GreenStox

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Quote from: deisik on June 25, 2015, 09:15:52 AM

Quote from: manselr on June 25, 2015, 07:00:28 AM

Quote from: Amph on June 25, 2015, 02:28:19 AM

Quote from: GreenStox on June 24, 2015, 07:26:07 PM

Gold is a very interesting element out there, but despite it's appeal, it is very hard for me to consider it money.

Its the same as diamonds, emeralds and rubys, all of them are shiny precious assets, but none of them are money, they are just valuable commodities

Bitcoin is money.

as a far as i know(joking here), the value to a thing(any thing) is given by us, by supply and demand, and not by an astronomical entity, everything has value and in the same time everything has not it

this is the reason why something cannot really be considered more worthless if one day there will be more adoption for it

something is really without value only if no one care about it

Anything that can represent value that you can use to exchange goods is money.. including diamonds, emerland and ruby, but in modern society it was constituted that fiats are money.
Bitcoin is a objectively superior form of money, still unknown to society. This is a paradigm shift that will take time.

I don't think it is something that could be called a paradigm shift. I can't figure out even one conceptual difference between gold and bitcoin that would justify such a claim

Quote from: manselr on June 25, 2015, 07:00:28 AM

As for intrinsic value, nothing has intrinsic value, except food, whater and shelter, because everyone needs those, so those are ALWAYS in demand, therefore it can be deduced that they have intrinsic value, because they'll be forever in demand.

What about air? If it has intrinsic value (which seems to be pretty obvious), why there is no market demand for it overall (but please don't repeat the old story about clean air vs polluted air)? I guess that not everything that has what you call intrinsic value, is always in demand...

Aren't you missing something?

Who said, or why do you think money has to have an intrinsic value. I think its the contrary, it doesnt need to have one.

It only needs an established trust, or some sort of transactional property to be recognized.

E-money doesnt have intrinsic value, so its only based on trust, the same could happen with bitcoin.

Gold is just a commodity, its not money, admit it

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Quote from: Erza on June 25, 2015, 11:40:45 PM

Quote from: GreenStox on June 25, 2015, 09:24:53 PM

We can take in loan for gold and can deposit in bank and achieve interest on them.

Did you mean using loan to get some gold bar then put that gold bar into bank and get interest to pay the loan? If you mean that way I dont think that

your interest can cover the loan of gold bar because the payout for bank interest is low. Btw if you do that whats the point of having investment? You

will get nothing then

I dont think you get interest on the gold, but if you do its better.

No i meant pay the loan interest from your salary, then just buy gold, and after the crisis happens the fiat will be extremely devalued = loan shrinks, and gold will be valued alot, so you make money.

It should cover all the loan expenses and you can make money too.

Perhaps negotiate with the bank a favorable interest rate lol.

Topic: Bitcoin or gold? - page 541. (Read 984460 times)