Bitcoin or gold? - page 557. | Bitcointalksearch.org

gripflierGO

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Quote from: umaOuma on May 15, 2015, 02:41:40 PM

Quote from: BTCevo on May 15, 2015, 07:17:38 AM

Quote from: nerFohanzo on May 15, 2015, 05:08:16 AM

Quote from: BIT-Sharon on May 15, 2015, 02:47:15 AM

I would keep the gold in hand and never sell it for 10 years, while I would't keep Bitcoin in hand with no transaction. In somehow, the Bitcoin is just an invstment and I have to let it go and back for interest.

Gold is better then bitcoin would love to invest in it as it is the best investment product and don't go with the present prices just think of the future and it will definitely give best return on investments say after 15 to 20 years but its difficult to judge whether bitcoin will survive or not.

Yes gold is better than bitcoin if you ask me but we must see the progress too. Gold, the price is always rise every year but it is more stable so if you invest in a long term I guess gold is the best but if you want it in a short term bitcoin is good too because the volatile price we can earn random profit and we can earn more that we can imagine so both of them is good. Just invest in both of them Grin

Yeah I put Gold over Bitcoins. Can't afford to trust on bitcoins as its existence is only since last 6 years but the Gold is traditional and trustworthy. So investing in Gold is an best option to look for as people trust Gold more then any other products and good returns are definitely possible.

I prefer to invest in both Grin

as neither gold nor bitcoin guarantees you the profits so its better to invest part of the money in gold and rest in bitcoin so in future even if I have to suffer loss from one then there would be a chance to recover that loss from the other product Grin

deisik

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Quote from: GreenStox on May 15, 2015, 04:25:57 PM

Quote from: deisik on May 15, 2015, 03:44:31 PM

Quote from: GreenStox on May 15, 2015, 02:50:01 PM

Well the volatility is only temporary, the more people use it the less volatility. Secondly do you think the FOREX markets are a flat line or what?
Every single currency is volatile, however in a EUR/USD market you only see like 300-400 pips movement in a day, because it's so giant,so this really proves that volatility will decrease over time.

The volatility can only decrease if the market grows bigger by a few orders of magnitude. For Bitcoin that would mean tens of thousands of dollars per coin (simple arithmetics). This won't happen until the Bitcoin user base grows accordingly. But it won't grow while the volatility is as high as it is as of now. So you obviously have a vicious circle...

Has the Bitcoin user base been actually growing for the last 2 years?

That would be true only in a socialist utopia. In the current world wealth is not proportionally distributed, 60% of the wealth is in the top 2-3% of the humans.

It doesnt need a 1000x in the userbase to grow the price, it only needs a few whales from wallstreet to open up their purse.

And contrary to mainstream average users, the whales are in a "for profit", if they would decide to invest in it. So about a 10% of the population needs to be there to ensure an ongoing demand, while the big whales can just use this as a collateral for their enterprises.

Sorry, but you evidently don't follow your own logic. A few whales from Wall Street shelling out on Bitcoin will only increase Bitcoin volatility, not diminish it by any means. With the result being more coins in fewer hands and less even distribution, i.e. yet higher volatility...

Since they are in "for a profit"

deisik

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Quote from: GreenStox on May 15, 2015, 03:10:08 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on May 15, 2015, 03:02:45 PM

Quote from: GreenStox on May 15, 2015, 02:50:01 PM

Then again, I dont think average people care about volatility, they already lose like 5-10% yearly due to inflation, so an average Joe will most likely not care at all.

Inflation is a stealthy one though and it only goes in one direction. People are far more likely to squeal about a sudden loss than the slow erosion of what you have. People have been conditioned to accept that as the norm in first world countries.

Overall I agree though. It can still seep across the glove while many people are still oblivious.

I dont even agree with that, see the USD drop early this year:

And how often do we see major currencies lose over 10% of value in a matter of days? You say that fiats lose like 5-10% annually in value, but annually is a bit different than daily, right?

GreenStox

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Quote from: deisik on May 15, 2015, 03:44:31 PM

Quote from: GreenStox on May 15, 2015, 02:50:01 PM

Quote from: deisik on May 14, 2015, 03:53:29 AM

I'm not going to start a flame war, but it seems that it is you who should go study, though not sociology but rather psychology, and what people actually think (and feel). An average Joe will stay away from Bitcoin after he even temporarily loses his Bitcoin savings due to a blackout or Internet connection failure. And I don't even mention that 99% of populace will not be quite happy about losing 10-20% of their savings value on a daily basis due to Bitcoin price volatility...

Well the volatility is only temporary, the more people use it the less volatility. Secondly do you think the FOREX markets are a flat line or what?
Every single currency is volatile, however in a EUR/USD market you only see like 300-400 pips movement in a day, because it's so giant,so this really proves that volatility will decrease over time.

The volatility can only decrease if the market grows bigger by a few orders of magnitude. For Bitcoin that would mean tens of thousands of dollars per coin (simple arithmetics). This won't happen until the Bitcoin user base grows accordingly. But it won't grow while the volatility is as high as it is as of now. So you obviously have a vicious circle...

Has the Bitcoin user base been actually growing for the last 2 years?

That would be true only in a socialist utopia. In the current world wealth is not proportionally distributed, 60% of the wealth is in the top 2-3% of the humans.

It doesnt need a 1000x in the userbase to grow the price, it only needs a few whales from wallstreet to open up their purse.

And contrary to mainstream average users, the whales are in a "for profit", if they would decide to invest in it. So about a 10% of the population needs to be there to ensure an ongoing demand, while the big whales can just use this as a collateral for their enterprises.

Online stores, gambling, entertainment, gaming, movies, and such, it can be a good investment for any millionaire, because the demand is already there, it only needs a shift of currency.

I guess we will need to wait until the fiat inflation becomes untolerable, but we shall see. It's up to wallstreet now to push prices up.

Erdogan

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Quote from: deisik on May 15, 2015, 03:44:31 PM

Quote from: GreenStox on May 15, 2015, 02:50:01 PM

Quote from: deisik on May 14, 2015, 03:53:29 AM

I'm not going to start a flame war, but it seems that it is you who should go study, though not sociology but rather psychology, and what people actually think (and feel). An average Joe will stay away from Bitcoin after he even temporarily loses his Bitcoin savings due to a blackout or Internet connection failure. And I don't even mention that 99% of populace will not be quite happy about losing 10-20% of their savings value on a daily basis due to Bitcoin price volatility...

Well the volatility is only temporary, the more people use it the less volatility. Secondly do you think the FOREX markets are a flat line or what?
Every single currency is volatile, however in a EUR/USD market you only see like 300-400 pips movement in a day, because it's so giant,so this really proves that volatility will decrease over time.

The volatility can only decrease if the market grows bigger by a few orders of magnitude. For Bitcoin that would mean tens of thousands of dollars per coin (simple arithmetics). This won't happen until the Bitcoin user base grows accordingly. But it won't grow while the volatility is as high as it is as of now. So you obviously have a vicious circle...

Has the Bitcoin user base been actually growing for the last 2 years?

Just like in forex, if you do business with large transactions, you can insure your foreign currency risk with futures. Not speculating with futures, but being on the other side.

Yes, the UTXO set has grown. Not the price, so be it. Lots of things in the real world has had value loss the last two years, in fact most commodities. Not all fiats, that is because the common yardstick for a fiat is another fiat, or a basket of fiats.

Deisik, you are a borderline troll, because whatever reason and logic is thrown at you, you just churn out the same old babble.

deisik

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Quote from: GreenStox on May 15, 2015, 02:50:01 PM

Quote from: deisik on May 14, 2015, 03:53:29 AM

I'm not going to start a flame war, but it seems that it is you who should go study, though not sociology but rather psychology, and what people actually think (and feel). An average Joe will stay away from Bitcoin after he even temporarily loses his Bitcoin savings due to a blackout or Internet connection failure. And I don't even mention that 99% of populace will not be quite happy about losing 10-20% of their savings value on a daily basis due to Bitcoin price volatility...

Well the volatility is only temporary, the more people use it the less volatility. Secondly do you think the FOREX markets are a flat line or what?
Every single currency is volatile, however in a EUR/USD market you only see like 300-400 pips movement in a day, because it's so giant,so this really proves that volatility will decrease over time.

The volatility can only decrease if the market grows bigger by a few orders of magnitude. For Bitcoin that would mean tens of thousands of dollars per coin (simple arithmetics). This won't happen until the Bitcoin user base grows accordingly. But it won't grow while the volatility is as high as it is as of now. So you obviously have a vicious circle...

Has the Bitcoin user base been actually growing for the last 2 years?

GreenStox

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Quote from: gentlemand on May 15, 2015, 03:02:45 PM

Quote from: GreenStox on May 15, 2015, 02:50:01 PM

Then again, I dont think average people care about volatility, they already lose like 5-10% yearly due to inflation, so an average Joe will most likely not care at all.

Inflation is a stealthy one though and it only goes in one direction. People are far more likely to squeal about a sudden loss than the slow erosion of what you have. People have been conditioned to accept that as the norm in first world countries.

Overall I agree though. It can still seep across the glove while many people are still oblivious.

I dont even agree with that, see the USD drop early this year:

Did people freaked out and stopped using the USD?

No they didnt, probably most average guys dont even know about this drop. Do you really think average people look at financial charts?

gentlemand

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Quote from: GreenStox on May 15, 2015, 02:50:01 PM

Then again, I dont think average people care about volatility, they already lose like 5-10% yearly due to inflation, so an average Joe will most likely not care at all.

Inflation is a stealthy one though and it only goes in one direction. People are far more likely to squeal about a sudden loss than the slow erosion of what you have. People have been conditioned to accept that as the norm in first world countries.

Overall I agree though. It can still seep across the glove while many people are still oblivious.

GreenStox

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Quote from: gentlemand on May 13, 2015, 05:32:21 PM

It's a much harder sell than something like a smartphone. Picking one of them up involves no risk, not much of a learning process and you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

If you're in the EU banking pretty much does everything you need it to right now. Most people don't care or don't want to know what money really is.

I can see millions more people using BTC in the years to come but maybe they won't actually be aware that they are. People making the switch from largely using their local currency to BTC en masse seems like a stretch to me but what do I know?

I know that most people are oblivious, but the point is, we dont care. Bitcoin doesnt have to be adopted by every single person, it only needs 5-10% of the population, and then we can have our separate economy here.

If the other losers dont want to join the club, whatever, we wont care, but they will lose not us.

Quote from: deisik on May 14, 2015, 03:53:29 AM

I'm not going to start a flame war, but it seems that it is you who should go study, though not sociology but rather psychology, and what people actually think (and feel). An average Joe will stay away from Bitcoin after he even temporarily loses his Bitcoin savings due to a blackout or Internet connection failure. And I don't even mention that 99% of populace will not be quite happy about losing 10-20% of their savings value on a daily basis due to Bitcoin price volatility...

Well the volatility is only temporary, the more people use it the less volatility. Secondly do you think the FOREX markets are a flat line or what?
Every single currency is volatile, however in a EUR/USD market you only see like 300-400 pips movement in a day, because it's so giant,so this really proves that volatility will decrease over time.

Then, average Joe will not lose anything. Dumb people will mostly use online wallets, because they are too stupid to setup an offline cold storage.
So that is just like an online bank account, it can be insured, and it will have customer support.

I really dont see anything different between the methodology (of course the structure is different) how BTC will be handled, in comparison to ONLINE BANKING.

Then again, I dont think average people care about volatility, they already lose like 5-10% yearly due to inflation, so an average Joe will most likely not care at all.

Erdogan

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Bitcoin is volatile because it is not widely used as currency yet, but is mainly a vehicle for speculation. If all our fiat currencies disappeared (as all have throughout history), all that would be left would be gold/silver and bitcoins - so the ratio of bitcoins to gold would be almost fixed, and clearly visible, with no basis for speculation. Bitcoin would then have the exact same proxy relationship to gold that non-fiat bank notes once had, but with no need for central banks, because you could exchange your bitcoins for gold at any time on the open market at a relatively fixed exchange rate.

Expanding slightly on that: In a bitcoin + gold world, the volume of gold money will fluctuate somewhat with demand (due to gold jewelry ("goldery?") being coined, and mining) while bitcoin volume will stay hard on the 21 mill limit. This can happen if the world economy expands or contracts. So there will be room for speculation and arbitrage around those differences.

umaOuma

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Quote from: BTCevo on May 15, 2015, 07:17:38 AM

Quote from: nerFohanzo on May 15, 2015, 05:08:16 AM

Quote from: BIT-Sharon on May 15, 2015, 02:47:15 AM

I would keep the gold in hand and never sell it for 10 years, while I would't keep Bitcoin in hand with no transaction. In somehow, the Bitcoin is just an invstment and I have to let it go and back for interest.

Gold is better then bitcoin would love to invest in it as it is the best investment product and don't go with the present prices just think of the future and it will definitely give best return on investments say after 15 to 20 years but its difficult to judge whether bitcoin will survive or not.

Yes gold is better than bitcoin if you ask me but we must see the progress too. Gold, the price is always rise every year but it is more stable so if you invest in a long term I guess gold is the best but if you want it in a short term bitcoin is good too because the volatile price we can earn random profit and we can earn more that we can imagine so both of them is good. Just invest in both of them Grin

Yeah I put Gold over Bitcoins. Can't afford to trust on bitcoins as its existence is only since last 6 years but the Gold is traditional and trustworthy. So investing in Gold is an best option to look for as people trust Gold more then any other products and good returns are definitely possible.

AtheistAKASaneBrain

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The fact that there is nothing physical backing bitcoin is actually advantageous , because there is nothing physical to confiscate. Bitcoin's are stored on a globally distributed ledger , so capital controls are impossible , they cannot be found by searches or metal detectors , they cannot be forged and they come into existence at a mathematically defined rate and they do not exist as debt.

This technology is nothing short of revolutionary.

BTCevo

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Quote from: nerFohanzo on May 15, 2015, 05:08:16 AM

Quote from: BIT-Sharon on May 15, 2015, 02:47:15 AM

I would keep the gold in hand and never sell it for 10 years, while I would't keep Bitcoin in hand with no transaction. In somehow, the Bitcoin is just an invstment and I have to let it go and back for interest.

Gold is better then bitcoin would love to invest in it as it is the best investment product and don't go with the present prices just think of the future and it will definitely give best return on investments say after 15 to 20 years but its difficult to judge whether bitcoin will survive or not.

Yes gold is better than bitcoin if you ask me but we must see the progress too. Gold, the price is always rise every year but it is more stable so if you invest in a long term I guess gold is the best but if you want it in a short term bitcoin is good too because the volatile price we can earn random profit and we can earn more that we can imagine so both of them is good. Just invest in both of them Grin

nerFohanzo

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Quote from: BIT-Sharon on May 15, 2015, 02:47:15 AM

I would keep the gold in hand and never sell it for 10 years, while I would't keep Bitcoin in hand with no transaction. In somehow, the Bitcoin is just an invstment and I have to let it go and back for interest.

Gold is better then bitcoin would love to invest in it as it is the best investment product and don't go with the present prices just think of the future and it will definitely give best return on investments say after 15 to 20 years but its difficult to judge whether bitcoin will survive or not.

BIT-Sharon

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I would keep the gold in hand and never sell it for 10 years, while I would't keep Bitcoin in hand with no transaction. In somehow, the Bitcoin is just an invstment and I have to let it go and back for interest.

stromma44

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Quote from: Xenoph0bia on May 14, 2015, 12:06:55 PM

I would rather go for gold over the bitcoin as gold is traditional and in existence since the history an as bitcoin is only 6 years old can't afford to go with bitcoin. Risk is involved in both gold and bitcoin but looking at the history would prefer to invest in gold that would be my opinion.

Ya that's true people trust gold more over the bitcoin but how can you be so sure that gold investment will prove profitable?? The Gold prices may also lower down in the future but the fact is people are not aware about the bitcoin and once you don't of knowledge you prefer to stay away from it.

Xenoph0bia

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I would rather go for gold over the bitcoin as gold is traditional and in existence since the history an as bitcoin is only 6 years old can't afford to go with bitcoin. Risk is involved in both gold and bitcoin but looking at the history would prefer to invest in gold that would be my opinion.

deisik

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I hear this over and over again that the price of gold/silver can't go much lower because we're at about break-even for production. This is a silly statement. Of course prices CAN go lower, it will just make the more expensive mines unprofitable and eventually put them out of business. The same is true of oil. If all had said the price of oil couldnt drop below the production cost inclusive of all of the shale extraction, then it wouldn't have gone lower. But it did, and it is putting stress on shale. Eventually we'll see a bottom, but when enough of the high-cost producers have been destroyed.

Of course it could go lower than the recent lows of around 1,170$ an ounce (or even below 1,140$ as of March). But this won't be for long. It is not actually about the production costs of gold mining (though they do contribute). All gold mines produce annually only a few percentages of all gold that is stashed and hoarded since ancient times. Obviously, you forget to take into account the other side of the equation, that is, demand for gold. Personally, I want gold to go below its current price level, so that I would buy it cheaper. And you may well guess that I'm not the only one...

r1f696

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my opinion is gold, cause gold i think had a prospect for next 25 years and look from rate of bitcoin in 2013 until now , but like you said if for 5 years again, maybe both are not wrong choice (if you have some over money lol)

hardfork1

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I am new still, but I love my gold still. I think it's a good good investment still. It just has done a amazing job of holding value.

I will add BTC to my investing now. I guess I will diversify with now going into BTC.

Topic: Bitcoin or gold? - page 557. (Read 984547 times)