Topic: Bitcoin or gold? - page 563. (Read 984547 times)

Quote from: deisik on April 17, 2015, 08:49:57 AM

also gold is too bulky to carry around, not really easy to carry from one place to another, not manageable, too slow, while bitcoin is much faster and comfortable to use

this alone makes bitcoin x100 better

Could you propose any objective measure that bitcoin is much better than gold? The only thing I can think up at the moment is market cap. But this is where bitcoin looks particularly miserable... Other ideas?

well gold isn't decentralized, also it isn't really divisible like bitcoin, also gold is surely worse in fungibilty, there are problems related to the dilution of the metal, to the variations of the chimical element(90% gold vs 100% gold ecc....) and to the weight and some measurements of it(wrong measurements for example) ecc...

bitcoin win in limited supply too, because you now the max value since the start, on the other hands with gold, there is always a chance to find more...

acceptance is also vastly preferible with bitcoin, because there is no verification needed like gold(fake or not) or the problem with the multiples, you can't sell less than a gram ecc....

Gold is decentralized. In fact, it is more decentralized than bitcoin, and what is even more important here this cannot be changed by human effort (unlike bitcoin). You can say that only a few can produce gold, but are there many who can profitably mine bitcoin right now?

In fact, in my question I meant some quantitative measure which can be unambiguously and objectively used to judge in favor of either gold or bitcoin

gold is not nearly decentralized as bitcoin, it is basically all controlled by government, you can go outside and pretend to mine it, while whit bitcoin it still possible to mine it even for a casual user, it just a bit long time to roi

I think instead of making unsubstantiated allegations you'd better go and check for yourself how much gold is actually controlled by governments (note I mean plural, that is by all governments). I promise you'll be surprised...

Amph

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Quote from: Amph on April 17, 2015, 08:10:55 AM

Quote from: Amph on April 17, 2015, 08:10:55 AM

also gold is too bulky to carry around, not really easy to carry from one place to another, not manageable, too slow, while bitcoin is much faster and comfortable to use

this alone makes bitcoin x100 better

Could you propose any objective measure that bitcoin is much better than gold? The only thing I can think up at the moment is market cap. But this is where bitcoin looks particularly miserable... Other ideas?

well gold isn't decentralized, also it isn't really divisible like bitcoin, also gold is surely worse in fungibilty, there are problems related to the dilution of the metal, to the variations of the chimical element(90% gold vs 100% gold ecc....) and to the weight and some measurements of it(wrong measurements for example) ecc...

bitcoin win in limited supply too, because you now the max value since the start, on the other hands with gold, there is always a chance to find more...

acceptance is also vastly preferible with bitcoin, because there is no verification needed like gold(fake or not) or the problem with the multiples, you can't sell less than a gram ecc....

Gold is decentralized. In fact, it is more decentralized than bitcoin, and what is even more important here this cannot be changed by human effort (unlike bitcoin). You can say that only a few can produce gold, but are there many who can profitably mine bitcoin right now?

In fact, in my question I meant some quantitative measure which can be unambiguously and objectively used to judge in favor of either gold or bitcoin

gold is not nearly decentralized as bitcoin, it is basically all controlled by government, you can go outside and pretend to mine it, while whit bitcoin it still possible to mine it even for a casual user, it just a bit long time to roi

besides this i provided to you many points that make bitcoin better, i don't know what to say anymore...

deisik

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also gold is too bulky to carry around, not really easy to carry from one place to another, not manageable, too slow, while bitcoin is much faster and comfortable to use

this alone makes bitcoin x100 better

Could you propose any objective measure that bitcoin is much better than gold? The only thing I can think up at the moment is market cap. But this is where bitcoin looks particularly miserable... Other ideas?

well gold isn't decentralized, also it isn't really divisible like bitcoin, also gold is surely worse in fungibilty, there are problems related to the dilution of the metal, to the variations of the chimical element(90% gold vs 100% gold ecc....) and to the weight and some measurements of it(wrong measurements for example) ecc...

bitcoin win in limited supply too, because you now the max value since the start, on the other hands with gold, there is always a chance to find more...

acceptance is also vastly preferible with bitcoin, because there is no verification needed like gold(fake or not) or the problem with the multiples, you can't sell less than a gram ecc....

Gold is decentralized. In fact, it is more decentralized than bitcoin, and what is even more important here this cannot be changed by human effort (unlike bitcoin). You can say that only a few can produce gold, but are there many who can profitably mine bitcoin right now?

In fact, in my question I meant some quantitative measure which can be unambiguously and objectively used to judge in favor of either gold or bitcoin

Amph

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Quote from: GreenStox on April 17, 2015, 12:35:46 AM

Quote from: randy8777 on April 17, 2015, 03:57:29 AM

If you start to weigh advantages over disadvantages, Gold will come on top.

1. Gold can be bought and sold in any country. And gold is more or less bought for investment and the people who buy it don't really have the need to transfer it worldwide. But when the need to do so arise it can be liquidated faster than Bitcoin.

2. Gold can be bought/sold on bullion exchange, so you don't have to build a safe to store it.

3. If you purchase gold from registered sellers/banks, it comes with certificates of it's authenticity, so you don't really need to be a goldsmith to verify it.

4. You're confusing gold bought for jewellery (as ring, lockets etc) with what we are discussing here, gold as an investment. And if you buy gold for the latter, it can be cut into pieces and sold as per the needs.

5. Gold can be confiscated easily by border patrol gangsters

6. Gold can be easily robbed from vaults by the government

7. A car full of gold is pretty suspicious, cops will seize that immediately, even if you have a few bars in your pocket.

8. Government can steal all the gold in your house.

They can do none of that with bitcoin. So which one you choose? Cheesy

also gold is too bulky to carry around, not really easy to carry from one place to another, not manageable, too slow, while bitcoin is much faster and comfortable to use

this alone makes bitcoin x100 better

Could you propose any objective measure that bitcoin is much better than gold? The only thing I can think up at the moment is market cap. But this is where bitcoin looks particularly miserable... Other ideas?

well gold isn't decentralized, also it isn't really divisible like bitcoin, also gold is surely worse in fungibilty, there are problems related to the dilution of the metal, to the variations of the chimical element(90% gold vs 100% gold ecc....) and to the weight and some measurements of it(wrong measurements for example) ecc...

bitcoin win in limited supply too, because you now the max value since the start, on the other hands with gold, there is always a chance to find more...

acceptance is also vastly preferible with bitcoin, because there is no verification needed like gold(fake or not) or the problem with the multiples, you can't sell less than a gram ecc....

deisik

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 17, 2015, 03:20:36 AM

But one doesn't have to buy physical gold in order to invest in Gold. You can buy virtual gold. I mean gold mutual fund or gold etf. They are easily trad able in share market.

trading virtual gold is like buying air. you invest money in something you don't own. which you can't compare to bitcoin. if i buy 1 btc i have it in my wallet. if you buy virtual gold....tell me what do i own?

You can go into physical as easily as into paper gold, provided you have enough money. Physically settled gold futures are traded alongside with cash settled ones. If you want to discredit gold somehow, you are obviously aiming at the wrong target...

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 17, 2015, 03:20:36 AM

Quote from: GreenStox on April 17, 2015, 12:35:46 AM

Well, in theory bitcoins have some advantages over standard gold. I will try to name some of them.

Unlike gold, bitcoins are:

1. Easy to transfer (worldwide transfers in seconds!)
2. Easy to secure (you don't have to build a safe to store bitcoin!)
3. Easy to verify (you don't need to be a goldsmith!)
4. Easy to granulate (how are you going to divide your gold ring?)

So in theory bitcoin is a better choice. The pros of Bitcoin definitely outweigh the cons.

If you start to weigh advantages over disadvantages, Gold will come on top.

1. Gold can be bought and sold in any country. And gold is more or less bought for investment and the people who buy it don't really have the need to transfer it worldwide. But when the need to do so arise it can be liquidated faster than Bitcoin.

2. Gold can be bought/sold on bullion exchange, so you don't have to build a safe to store it.

3. If you purchase gold from registered sellers/banks, it comes with certificates of it's authenticity, so you don't really need to be a goldsmith to verify it.

4. You're confusing gold bought for jewellery (as ring, lockets etc) with what we are discussing here, gold as an investment. And if you buy gold for the latter, it can be cut into pieces and sold as per the needs.

5. Gold can be confiscated easily by border patrol gangsters

6. Gold can be easily robbed from vaults by the government

7. A car full of gold is pretty suspicious, cops will seize that immediately, even if you have a few bars in your pocket.

8. Government can steal all the gold in your house.

They can do none of that with bitcoin. So which one you choose? Cheesy

also gold is too bulky to carry around, not really easy to carry from one place to another, not manageable, too slow, while bitcoin is much faster and comfortable to use

this alone makes bitcoin x100 better

But one doesn't have to buy physical gold in order to invest in Gold. You can buy virtual gold. I mean gold mutual fund or gold etf. They are easily trad able in share market.

trading virtual gold is like buying air. you invest money in something you don't own. which you can't compare to bitcoin. if i buy 1 btc i have it in my wallet. if you buy virtual gold....tell me what do i own?

Sithara007

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Quote from: GreenStox on April 17, 2015, 12:35:46 AM

Well, in theory bitcoins have some advantages over standard gold. I will try to name some of them.

Unlike gold, bitcoins are:

1. Easy to transfer (worldwide transfers in seconds!)
2. Easy to secure (you don't have to build a safe to store bitcoin!)
3. Easy to verify (you don't need to be a goldsmith!)
4. Easy to granulate (how are you going to divide your gold ring?)

So in theory bitcoin is a better choice. The pros of Bitcoin definitely outweigh the cons.

If you start to weigh advantages over disadvantages, Gold will come on top.

1. Gold can be bought and sold in any country. And gold is more or less bought for investment and the people who buy it don't really have the need to transfer it worldwide. But when the need to do so arise it can be liquidated faster than Bitcoin.

2. Gold can be bought/sold on bullion exchange, so you don't have to build a safe to store it.

3. If you purchase gold from registered sellers/banks, it comes with certificates of it's authenticity, so you don't really need to be a goldsmith to verify it.

4. You're confusing gold bought for jewellery (as ring, lockets etc) with what we are discussing here, gold as an investment. And if you buy gold for the latter, it can be cut into pieces and sold as per the needs.

5. Gold can be confiscated easily by border patrol gangsters

6. Gold can be easily robbed from vaults by the government

7. A car full of gold is pretty suspicious, cops will seize that immediately, even if you have a few bars in your pocket.

8. Government can steal all the gold in your house.

They can do none of that with bitcoin. So which one you choose? Cheesy

also gold is too bulky to carry around, not really easy to carry from one place to another, not manageable, too slow, while bitcoin is much faster and comfortable to use

this alone makes bitcoin x100 better

But one doesn't have to buy physical gold in order to invest in Gold. You can buy virtual gold. I mean gold mutual fund or gold etf. They are easily trad able in share market.

deisik

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Quote from: GreenStox on April 17, 2015, 12:35:46 AM

Quote from: GreenStox on April 17, 2015, 12:35:46 AM

If you start to weigh advantages over disadvantages, Gold will come on top.

1. Gold can be bought and sold in any country. And gold is more or less bought for investment and the people who buy it don't really have the need to transfer it worldwide. But when the need to do so arise it can be liquidated faster than Bitcoin.

2. Gold can be bought/sold on bullion exchange, so you don't have to build a safe to store it.

3. If you purchase gold from registered sellers/banks, it comes with certificates of it's authenticity, so you don't really need to be a goldsmith to verify it.

4. You're confusing gold bought for jewellery (as ring, lockets etc) with what we are discussing here, gold as an investment. And if you buy gold for the latter, it can be cut into pieces and sold as per the needs.

5. Gold can be confiscated easily by border patrol gangsters

6. Gold can be easily robbed from vaults by the government

7. A car full of gold is pretty suspicious, cops will seize that immediately, even if you have a few bars in your pocket.

8. Government can steal all the gold in your house.

They can do none of that with bitcoin. So which one you choose? Cheesy

also gold is too bulky to carry around, not really easy to carry from one place to another, not manageable, too slow, while bitcoin is much faster and comfortable to use

this alone makes bitcoin x100 better

Could you propose any objective measure that bitcoin is much better than gold? The only thing I can think up at the moment is market cap. But this is where bitcoin looks particularly miserable... Other ideas?

Amph

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 16, 2015, 10:34:06 PM

Well, in theory bitcoins have some advantages over standard gold. I will try to name some of them.

Unlike gold, bitcoins are:

1. Easy to transfer (worldwide transfers in seconds!)
2. Easy to secure (you don't have to build a safe to store bitcoin!)
3. Easy to verify (you don't need to be a goldsmith!)
4. Easy to granulate (how are you going to divide your gold ring?)

So in theory bitcoin is a better choice. The pros of Bitcoin definitely outweigh the cons.

If you start to weigh advantages over disadvantages, Gold will come on top.

1. Gold can be bought and sold in any country. And gold is more or less bought for investment and the people who buy it don't really have the need to transfer it worldwide. But when the need to do so arise it can be liquidated faster than Bitcoin.

2. Gold can be bought/sold on bullion exchange, so you don't have to build a safe to store it.

3. If you purchase gold from registered sellers/banks, it comes with certificates of it's authenticity, so you don't really need to be a goldsmith to verify it.

4. You're confusing gold bought for jewellery (as ring, lockets etc) with what we are discussing here, gold as an investment. And if you buy gold for the latter, it can be cut into pieces and sold as per the needs.

5. Gold can be confiscated easily by border patrol gangsters

6. Gold can be easily robbed from vaults by the government

7. A car full of gold is pretty suspicious, cops will seize that immediately, even if you have a few bars in your pocket.

8. Government can steal all the gold in your house.

They can do none of that with bitcoin. So which one you choose? Cheesy

also gold is too bulky to carry around, not really easy to carry from one place to another, not manageable, too slow, while bitcoin is much faster and comfortable to use

this alone makes bitcoin x100 better

deisik

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Quote from: deisik on April 16, 2015, 11:58:52 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on April 15, 2015, 12:25:48 AM

To say that gold will become rarer since gold mines will run out of gold one day seems to me wishful thinking of the same kind that bitcoin will hit 1 million dollar mark another day. It may indeed happen, but personally I wouldn't hope for that (meaning that such a possibility wouldn't in the least affect my economic decisions)...

Why did they not run out of gold some fifty years ago already?

Because there is still so much of Gold available to fulfill the world demand. And anyway the 50 years back Gold was not that much in demand. In the last 20 years, there was a steep demand.

Ironically, exactly 50 years ago (that is in 1965) the president of France Charles de Gaulle demanded the US to exchange France's dollar reserves for gold at the official exchange rate (which considerably depleted the US gold reserves). This ultimately led to Richard Nixon declaring the end of the convertibility of the dollar to gold in 1971...

Are you still going to argue that there was not that much demand for physical gold back then?

Oh I didn't know that. But yes I will still stick to my point. I was actually talking about Gold demand from General public. Now a days, everyone wants to do some investment in form of Gold.

If you didn't know what anyone interested in gold knows, how can you say that today demand is higher than back then? But this is not my point altogether. I specifically pointed out that I was talking about physical gold since there had been no paper gold 50 years ago. In fact, dollars were paper gold then...

Still stick to your point?

GreenStox

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Well, in theory bitcoins have some advantages over standard gold. I will try to name some of them.

Unlike gold, bitcoins are:

1. Easy to transfer (worldwide transfers in seconds!)
2. Easy to secure (you don't have to build a safe to store bitcoin!)
3. Easy to verify (you don't need to be a goldsmith!)
4. Easy to granulate (how are you going to divide your gold ring?)

So in theory bitcoin is a better choice. The pros of Bitcoin definitely outweigh the cons.

If you start to weigh advantages over disadvantages, Gold will come on top.

1. Gold can be bought and sold in any country. And gold is more or less bought for investment and the people who buy it don't really have the need to transfer it worldwide. But when the need to do so arise it can be liquidated faster than Bitcoin.

2. Gold can be bought/sold on bullion exchange, so you don't have to build a safe to store it.

3. If you purchase gold from registered sellers/banks, it comes with certificates of it's authenticity, so you don't really need to be a goldsmith to verify it.

4. You're confusing gold bought for jewellery (as ring, lockets etc) with what we are discussing here, gold as an investment. And if you buy gold for the latter, it can be cut into pieces and sold as per the needs.

5. Gold can be confiscated easily by border patrol gangsters

6. Gold can be easily robbed from vaults by the government

7. A car full of gold is pretty suspicious, cops will seize that immediately, even if you have a few bars in your pocket.

8. Government can steal all the gold in your house.

They can do none of that with bitcoin. So which one you choose? Cheesy

twister

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Quote from: GreenStox on April 16, 2015, 10:05:22 PM

Well, in theory bitcoins have some advantages over standard gold. I will try to name some of them.

Unlike gold, bitcoins are:

1. Easy to transfer (worldwide transfers in seconds!)
2. Easy to secure (you don't have to build a safe to store bitcoin!)
3. Easy to verify (you don't need to be a goldsmith!)
4. Easy to granulate (how are you going to divide your gold ring?)

So in theory bitcoin is a better choice. The pros of Bitcoin definitely outweigh the cons.

If you start to weigh advantages over disadvantages, Gold will come on top.

1. Gold can be bought and sold in any country. And gold is more or less bought for investment and the people who buy it don't really have the need to transfer it worldwide. But when the need to do so arise it can be liquidated faster than Bitcoin.

2. Gold can be bought/sold on bullion exchange, so you don't have to build a safe to store it.

3. If you purchase gold from registered sellers/banks, it comes with certificates of it's authenticity, so you don't really need to be a goldsmith to verify it.

4. You're confusing gold bought for jewellery (as ring, lockets etc) with what we are discussing here, gold as an investment. And if you buy gold for the latter, it can be cut into pieces and sold as per the needs.

rinhunter

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Quote from: rinhunter on April 16, 2015, 08:53:39 PM

gold. because BTC we do not know what his
future, your wallet account may be banned
tomorrow, we do not know.

Banned, how exactly when i store my coins offline and can be retrieved until the network exists.

if it is different. prefer gold.

Sithara007

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Quote from: deisik on April 16, 2015, 11:58:52 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on April 15, 2015, 12:25:48 AM

Quote from: aso118 on April 13, 2015, 07:15:42 PM

Quote from: deisik on April 13, 2015, 11:02:09 AM

Why do you think gold will get rarer with time? It doesn't age, its production is pretty consistent through years (actually, slowly increasing). If you say that there are more people on the planet and thus less gold per capita, then you should take into consideration actual demand for it (meaning that even if it does become rarer, there maybe still less demand for it nevertheless)...

A significant portion of the gold produced is bought by central banks and institutions which do not intend to resell them. This gold is effectively removed from the market. Once gold production decreases (it eventually will, when existing gold mines run out of gold), there will be an imbalance in demand-supply. There will be demand for gold from jewellers and from people who don't trust central banks (and bitcoins. Tongue

)

To say that gold will become rarer since gold mines will run out of gold one day seems to me wishful thinking of the same kind that bitcoin will hit 1 million dollar mark another day. It may indeed happen, but personally I wouldn't hope for that (meaning that such a possibility wouldn't in the least affect my economic decisions)...

Why did they not run out of gold some fifty years ago already?

Because there is still so much of Gold available to fulfill the world demand. And anyway the 50 years back Gold was not that much in demand. In the last 20 years, there was a steep demand.

Ironically, exactly 50 years ago (that is in 1965) the president of France Charles de Gaulle demanded the US to exchange France's dollar reserves for gold at the official exchange rate (which considerably depleted the US gold reserves). This ultimately led to Richard Nixon declaring the end of the convertibility of the dollar to gold in 1971...

Are you still going to argue that there was not that much demand for physical gold back then?

Oh I didn't know that. But yes I will still stick to my point. I was actually talking about Gold demand from General public. Now a days, everyone wants to do some investment in form of Gold.

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Well, in theory bitcoins have some advantages over standard gold. I will try to name some of them.

Unlike gold, bitcoins are:

1. Easy to transfer (worldwide transfers in seconds!)
2. Easy to secure (you don't have to build a safe to store bitcoin!)
3. Easy to verify (you don't need to be a goldsmith!)
4. Easy to granulate (how are you going to divide your gold ring?)

So in theory bitcoin is a better choice. The pros of Bitcoin definitely outweigh the cons.

GreenStox

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Quote from: rinhunter on April 16, 2015, 08:53:39 PM

gold. because BTC we do not know what his
future, your wallet account may be banned
tomorrow, we do not know.

Banned, how exactly when i store my coins offline and can be retrieved until the network exists.

rinhunter

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Activity: 826

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gold. because BTC we do not know what his
future, your wallet account may be banned
tomorrow, we do not know.

deisik

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 15, 2015, 12:25:48 AM

Quote from: aso118 on April 13, 2015, 07:15:42 PM

Quote from: deisik on April 13, 2015, 11:02:09 AM

Why do you think gold will get rarer with time? It doesn't age, its production is pretty consistent through years (actually, slowly increasing). If you say that there are more people on the planet and thus less gold per capita, then you should take into consideration actual demand for it (meaning that even if it does become rarer, there maybe still less demand for it nevertheless)...

A significant portion of the gold produced is bought by central banks and institutions which do not intend to resell them. This gold is effectively removed from the market. Once gold production decreases (it eventually will, when existing gold mines run out of gold), there will be an imbalance in demand-supply. There will be demand for gold from jewellers and from people who don't trust central banks (and bitcoins. Tongue

)

To say that gold will become rarer since gold mines will run out of gold one day seems to me wishful thinking of the same kind that bitcoin will hit 1 million dollar mark another day. It may indeed happen, but personally I wouldn't hope for that (meaning that such a possibility wouldn't in the least affect my economic decisions)...

Why did they not run out of gold some fifty years ago already?

Because there is still so much of Gold available to fulfill the world demand. And anyway the 50 years back Gold was not that much in demand. In the last 20 years, there was a steep demand.

Ironically, exactly 50 years ago (that is in 1965) the president of France Charles de Gaulle demanded the US to exchange France's dollar reserves for gold at the official exchange rate (which considerably depleted the US gold reserves). This ultimately led to Richard Nixon declaring the end of the convertibility of the dollar to gold in 1971...

Are you still going to argue that there was not that much demand for physical gold back then?

Sithara007

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