For stability, gold.
For potentially high reward, bitcoin.
Topic: Bitcoin or Gold? What would you pick? - page 153. (Read 299008 times)
Platinum is not superior in terms of a monetary metal. Theres a few reasons that add up but the major would be platinum is actually useful and thats ironic but it matters because platinum is used as a catalyst metal so it is part of the industrial cycle.
So the rate of car production or concern about pollution even is going to affect our monetary base ? It immediately starts to unbalance the flow of money.
We want to get away from overt influence of one section of the economy over all others, right now we are on the merry go round that is the melodramatic bs of Washington politics
Also platinum is not as well distributed geographically. At one time they would fake gold coins by using platinum to fill in the spots in a thick coin. It got expensive because we started using it for something beyond jewelary. I believe Russia has very large deposits available where as theres gold on every continent pretty much.
Ben bernake says gold is not a reliable base for money as mining varies but Im willing to guess it does not differ as much as dollars do. When gold supply increases, it does relate to some work or innovation and its not impossible there are multiple benefits from that mining technology applicable elsewhere in the economy.
The main criticism of government or federal reserve policy is that its not representing advancement of human knowledge in any way. The flow of money derives from trickery and efforts to boost consumer confidence and there are no secondary benefits to printing money. All you can argue is government stability is increased short term and what about long term when the debt must be repaid or the dollar value is realised in the price of goods in exchange. What we have then will be massive instability and price volatility, no benefit from politics will exist then as it represents not production applicable elsewhere but waste and consumption of value, a default then becomes a positive because it stops ever larger government.
Gold is ironic in that it stops excess like we have now, not because its productive but because it is so hard to produce it is valued and yet it is not used; hence it is a store of value
I think that relates to bitcoin, also not a useful product just by itself but it enables commerce where both customer and vendor would have no reliable secure exchange.
So the rate of car production or concern about pollution even is going to affect our monetary base ? It immediately starts to unbalance the flow of money.
We want to get away from overt influence of one section of the economy over all others, right now we are on the merry go round that is the melodramatic bs of Washington politics
Also platinum is not as well distributed geographically. At one time they would fake gold coins by using platinum to fill in the spots in a thick coin. It got expensive because we started using it for something beyond jewelary. I believe Russia has very large deposits available where as theres gold on every continent pretty much.
Ben bernake says gold is not a reliable base for money as mining varies but Im willing to guess it does not differ as much as dollars do. When gold supply increases, it does relate to some work or innovation and its not impossible there are multiple benefits from that mining technology applicable elsewhere in the economy.
The main criticism of government or federal reserve policy is that its not representing advancement of human knowledge in any way. The flow of money derives from trickery and efforts to boost consumer confidence and there are no secondary benefits to printing money. All you can argue is government stability is increased short term and what about long term when the debt must be repaid or the dollar value is realised in the price of goods in exchange. What we have then will be massive instability and price volatility, no benefit from politics will exist then as it represents not production applicable elsewhere but waste and consumption of value, a default then becomes a positive because it stops ever larger government.
Gold is ironic in that it stops excess like we have now, not because its productive but because it is so hard to produce it is valued and yet it is not used; hence it is a store of value
I think that relates to bitcoin, also not a useful product just by itself but it enables commerce where both customer and vendor would have no reliable secure exchange.
isn't platinum better than gold, why this comparison? i'm not in to those thing too much, i don't remember well
Bitcoin, I cant move large amounts of Gold arround like it's nothing, but I can move as much as I want with BTC effortlessly.
Estimating is basically useless as long as the precious metals cartel is manipulating the prices with their printing press.
I think that GLD should be at some $5,000 today and silver at $100-$150. If all the gold from Fort Knox was to be used to back up the $$$ in circuation it should be somewhere in the region of $75,000 per ounce.
What is the most interesting thing is the historical ratio between GLD and SLV. It is actually the only known instrument of determining the price one versus the other not by any historical currency as they do not exist today. The ratio should be around 1 to 15. THat is 1oz of gold for 15oz of silver. But there were times when silver was in the ratio of 1 to 6. Currently we are mining less than 10oz of silver for every 1oz of gold.
The ratio on COMEX is 1 to 65. Consumption of silver is way higher than production, I think every year we are short of some 150mln ounces. This is being covered by the repositories and stock of silver already mined in previous years.
Future of silver looks bright!
http://commodityhq.com/2012/a-brief-2000-year-history-of-silver-prices/
I think that GLD should be at some $5,000 today and silver at $100-$150. If all the gold from Fort Knox was to be used to back up the $$$ in circuation it should be somewhere in the region of $75,000 per ounce.
What is the most interesting thing is the historical ratio between GLD and SLV. It is actually the only known instrument of determining the price one versus the other not by any historical currency as they do not exist today. The ratio should be around 1 to 15. THat is 1oz of gold for 15oz of silver. But there were times when silver was in the ratio of 1 to 6. Currently we are mining less than 10oz of silver for every 1oz of gold.
The ratio on COMEX is 1 to 65. Consumption of silver is way higher than production, I think every year we are short of some 150mln ounces. This is being covered by the repositories and stock of silver already mined in previous years.
Future of silver looks bright!
http://commodityhq.com/2012/a-brief-2000-year-history-of-silver-prices/
is there any etimate, how high can price of precious metal go, in case non backed fiat will lose its value. I mean in case, there will be huge demand for gold backed money, the price shoul logically soar, right? What could be ROI at current prices? Any speculations?
Both are at around the cost of production, but Bitcoin definitely has farther to go, so it's a no brainier until we see $100,000 coins..
farther to go up or down?
He obviously mean going up mentioning 100,000 number.
Given the price dropped lately, I would be happy if the correction in the last few weeks do not change bitcoin outlook long term.
Actually, if you believe the markets are rational and efficient, the current market price is a good indicator of the long term outlook as well.
Looking at trading volume, the order book, and the various old school methods of divining the price don't work so well with Bitcoin IMO, since we really are only about 0.1% of the way to full adoption and there are more unexpected, unpredictable events that impact the price than in a traditional asset class. Will the Winklvoss ETF successfully manipulate the market? In which direction and how fast? Tons of short-medium term stuff like that that's tough to predict, and will make 50% of the day traders poor.
But if we think over the next 5 year, the future looks bright. I know it's possible to sell, then buy back when slumps like this happen, but I don't play that game since it's just as easy to get that wrong and watch the price run away from you faster than you could catch up to it. I'm with the HODLERS.
Both are at around the cost of production, but Bitcoin definitely has farther to go, so it's a no brainier until we see $100,000 coins..
farther to go up or down?
He obviously mean going up mentioning 100,000 number.
Given the price dropped lately, I would be happy if the correction in the last few weeks do not change bitcoin outlook long term.
Actually, if you believe the markets are rational and efficient, the current market price is a good indicator of the long term outlook as well.
Both are at around the cost of production, but Bitcoin definitely has farther to go, so it's a no brainier until we see $100,000 coins..
farther to go up or down?
He obviously mean going up mentioning 100,000 number.
Given the price dropped lately, I would be happy if the correction in the last few weeks do not change bitcoin outlook long term.
Both are at around the cost of production, but Bitcoin definitely has farther to go, so it's a no brainier until we see $100,000 coins..
farther to go up or down?
Both are at around the cost of production, but Bitcoin definitely has farther to go, so it's a no brainier until we see $100,000 coins..
Interesting thread. I liked the utube videos on verifying gold coins. I would pick the gold, if it was the same weight as the btc price in dollars. Gold is usually purchased at a premium over spot. BTC is easy to purchase and can be done at a pc. Physical purchase of gold takes effort and a level of trust with whom you are dealing. In short, it is easier to buy btc than gold.
but long term bitcoin and silver. gold is in my opinion useless: after all they can confiscate it like Roosvelt did.
Silver has a great potential, there is no recycling, production is lower than demand and basically in some 15 years the known repositories of silver will be depleted. Silver is in everything. Silver is the new gold.
It is interesting to follow the historical ratio of gold and silver to understand its true value.
Silver has a great potential, there is no recycling, production is lower than demand and basically in some 15 years the known repositories of silver will be depleted. Silver is in everything. Silver is the new gold.
It is interesting to follow the historical ratio of gold and silver to understand its true value.
Silver is industrially influenced to a large extent
Bitcoin is transactional and velocity biased
Cash is fiat, politically compromised to serve a welfare state majority (most are in debt not holding cash net, often even large companies)
Gold is called useless but is beholder to nobody and distributed across the world widely, it cannot be degraded.
You cover all bases and I guess you got bills to pay in cash so I wont argue but 25% on each I think is also incorrect. We are going to be flooded with cash, you are likely a creditor to your employer paying in cash and of what worth (over a year) you cant be sure; so its a rotten leg on your chair to sit
Bitcoin is transactional and velocity biased
Cash is fiat, politically compromised to serve a welfare state majority (most are in debt not holding cash net, often even large companies)
Gold is called useless but is beholder to nobody and distributed across the world widely, it cannot be degraded.
You cover all bases and I guess you got bills to pay in cash so I wont argue but 25% on each I think is also incorrect. We are going to be flooded with cash, you are likely a creditor to your employer paying in cash and of what worth (over a year) you cant be sure; so its a rotten leg on your chair to sit
I personally would pick a split between gold, silver, bitcoin and cash. I call it the "sleep soundly and have all your bases covered" portfolio 
I have posted it in the Off topic section but it seems this thread is more appropriate
Enjoy reading
The Silver FIX fix is today, and it won’t do a damn thing for anyone
Posted on August 15, 2014 by JB Slear
US Dollar is the overall loser in the battle of confidence with the trade at 81.575, down 7.2 points after it was announced all over the global media services that Putin said that the US Dollar system has to be destroyed because it’s damaging the economic system. Now he was specifically talking about Russia, but all the BRICS, as well as Germany, France, and the other nations that have been punished for using the US Dollar in transactions with countries that the US doesn’t like and have been fined for using the Dollar in these transactions, are paying very close attention. Face it, Germany is pissed at the Feral Reserve for NOT allowing it to have a portion of its Gold sent home and for lying about it for 8 months before Merkyll started cow towing the Dollar line again. The people of Germany are well aware of the implications and regardless of what the media is telling us, the words from the prosecutor’s office still stands out loud and clear! “The Gold Manipulation is far bigger than the LIBOR” could ever be!! Wars are created to hide this real money issue and the failures of the western systems military industrial complex to start a war on all the different fronts is a main focus of all these nations that want their identities back. Treasuries are of course a non-issue and remain elevated till a time when the US Currency has reached a point where it is dumped for something tangible and it feels as if the moment of that point is upon us all. Still we wait with our short positions in the Treasuries for that moment when truth hits reality. We expect this position to pay for years when the drop starts in earnest. The Energy Sector took a hit in trade yesterday with the market falling sharply with the leader, Crude Oil now at $95.63, up a nickel after yesterday’s $2 drop as more and more evidence shows up that the “stay at home vacations” and less driving offsets anything else, such as the destruction of the Middle East. Gold remains held in check and is not allowed to move higher as we all are aware that the Federal Reserve is fighting for its life and is doing crazy and unnatural things to stay in power as the weakness it portrays can be seen everywhere. The trade sits at $1,313.60, down $2.10 and every time the real currency reaches $1,320 it’s knocked back. Open Interest is gaining which means more buyers are coming in, we hope these buyers are getting their courage from the Silver holders, who seem to have balls of steel. Silver is flat as well with its trade at $19.88, down 2.1 cents on the very first day of the new bullshit called the Non-“Fix”. This won’t do anything for the precious metal because the same clowns are juggling the issues, the only difference is, they have different makeup on. The most important factor in Silver, imo, is the Open Interest, and it has gained quite a bit yesterday as we went back above the 160k mark with a total now at 162,000. With the major drop in Shanghai inventory and the control mechanism breaking down here in the land of no laws, things should get real interesting at the break point. Is it here now? No one outside the Crimex/banking system can answer that, but when it breaks, the hunt for the perpetrators of the biggest crime against the nations people will be on, and I truly am looking forward to getting to that point. Bitcoin continues to trade lower under the attacks of a government agency selling off the assets reminiscent of a time when confiscated drugs were rumored to be sold off so by an agency who then used the profits in “the war on drugs” for other purposes with the trade now at $508.80, down $4.60 and inside a 24 hour trading range of $524 and $497. Ripple Coin, our companies buy and hold suggestion, is up a scratch with its trade at $.005380. With all the shenanigans going on globally with more and more people catching on, we expect these crypto’s to enlighten everyone once the dollar starts it major drop. Grains and Softs are flat across the board and it seems the Live Stock Sector has found its bottom and is waiting for a direction. To us, it looks to turn higher from here. The failed attempts to use force to push wrong ideas and the fact that jobs are harder to find then chicken teeth, matter not in the land of the Paper Markets because the Twisted Sister with the Stepford Wives look are climbing. This global market system is the ultimate culprit here because the money is coming in from Europe as it seems the Euro-Currency will be the first of the Fiats to fall as we mentioned earlier that Germany and France are 2 majors in that system, and they have left major hints that they may leave the crippled Euro. If this is true, holders of the Euro will be toasted, roasted, and hung out to dry. This fully explains what is happening in our markets at present, and this is only temporary. In closing, there is still no better place to have ones money than Silver, Gold, and some Crypto’s, until reality hits and when that happens, even the Prozacians won’t be able to ignore it. Have a great and wonderful weekend, keep those Precious Metals and Crypto’s close, and as always … Stay Strong!!
http://fortwealth.com/blog/?p=5826
Enjoy reading
The Silver FIX fix is today, and it won’t do a damn thing for anyone
Posted on August 15, 2014 by JB Slear
US Dollar is the overall loser in the battle of confidence with the trade at 81.575, down 7.2 points after it was announced all over the global media services that Putin said that the US Dollar system has to be destroyed because it’s damaging the economic system. Now he was specifically talking about Russia, but all the BRICS, as well as Germany, France, and the other nations that have been punished for using the US Dollar in transactions with countries that the US doesn’t like and have been fined for using the Dollar in these transactions, are paying very close attention. Face it, Germany is pissed at the Feral Reserve for NOT allowing it to have a portion of its Gold sent home and for lying about it for 8 months before Merkyll started cow towing the Dollar line again. The people of Germany are well aware of the implications and regardless of what the media is telling us, the words from the prosecutor’s office still stands out loud and clear! “The Gold Manipulation is far bigger than the LIBOR” could ever be!! Wars are created to hide this real money issue and the failures of the western systems military industrial complex to start a war on all the different fronts is a main focus of all these nations that want their identities back. Treasuries are of course a non-issue and remain elevated till a time when the US Currency has reached a point where it is dumped for something tangible and it feels as if the moment of that point is upon us all. Still we wait with our short positions in the Treasuries for that moment when truth hits reality. We expect this position to pay for years when the drop starts in earnest. The Energy Sector took a hit in trade yesterday with the market falling sharply with the leader, Crude Oil now at $95.63, up a nickel after yesterday’s $2 drop as more and more evidence shows up that the “stay at home vacations” and less driving offsets anything else, such as the destruction of the Middle East. Gold remains held in check and is not allowed to move higher as we all are aware that the Federal Reserve is fighting for its life and is doing crazy and unnatural things to stay in power as the weakness it portrays can be seen everywhere. The trade sits at $1,313.60, down $2.10 and every time the real currency reaches $1,320 it’s knocked back. Open Interest is gaining which means more buyers are coming in, we hope these buyers are getting their courage from the Silver holders, who seem to have balls of steel. Silver is flat as well with its trade at $19.88, down 2.1 cents on the very first day of the new bullshit called the Non-“Fix”. This won’t do anything for the precious metal because the same clowns are juggling the issues, the only difference is, they have different makeup on. The most important factor in Silver, imo, is the Open Interest, and it has gained quite a bit yesterday as we went back above the 160k mark with a total now at 162,000. With the major drop in Shanghai inventory and the control mechanism breaking down here in the land of no laws, things should get real interesting at the break point. Is it here now? No one outside the Crimex/banking system can answer that, but when it breaks, the hunt for the perpetrators of the biggest crime against the nations people will be on, and I truly am looking forward to getting to that point. Bitcoin continues to trade lower under the attacks of a government agency selling off the assets reminiscent of a time when confiscated drugs were rumored to be sold off so by an agency who then used the profits in “the war on drugs” for other purposes with the trade now at $508.80, down $4.60 and inside a 24 hour trading range of $524 and $497. Ripple Coin, our companies buy and hold suggestion, is up a scratch with its trade at $.005380. With all the shenanigans going on globally with more and more people catching on, we expect these crypto’s to enlighten everyone once the dollar starts it major drop. Grains and Softs are flat across the board and it seems the Live Stock Sector has found its bottom and is waiting for a direction. To us, it looks to turn higher from here. The failed attempts to use force to push wrong ideas and the fact that jobs are harder to find then chicken teeth, matter not in the land of the Paper Markets because the Twisted Sister with the Stepford Wives look are climbing. This global market system is the ultimate culprit here because the money is coming in from Europe as it seems the Euro-Currency will be the first of the Fiats to fall as we mentioned earlier that Germany and France are 2 majors in that system, and they have left major hints that they may leave the crippled Euro. If this is true, holders of the Euro will be toasted, roasted, and hung out to dry. This fully explains what is happening in our markets at present, and this is only temporary. In closing, there is still no better place to have ones money than Silver, Gold, and some Crypto’s, until reality hits and when that happens, even the Prozacians won’t be able to ignore it. Have a great and wonderful weekend, keep those Precious Metals and Crypto’s close, and as always … Stay Strong!!
http://fortwealth.com/blog/?p=5826
At the current bitcoin market I would definitely pick bitcoin, as it'd be going up pretty soon, even if it dips a little more.
The way i see it, bitcoin is starting to get pretty interesting, since the network hash seams to be more and more in the hands of few.
Same thing happened with control over gold/diamond mining, and what follows is price spike.
Just like every other gamble, i may be wrong , but this seams pretty true at the time.
And since bitcoin is yet not exposed as much , i consider it to be the best choice.
Does Bitcoin really seem to you as a kind of gamble?
At the current bitcoin market I would definitely pick bitcoin, as it'd be going up pretty soon, even if it dips a little more.
The way i see it, bitcoin is starting to get pretty interesting, since the network hash seams to be more and more in the hands of few.
Same thing happened with control over gold/diamond mining, and what follows is price spike.
Just like every other gamble, i may be wrong , but this seams pretty true at the time.
And since bitcoin is yet not exposed as much , i consider it to be the best choice.
I say Gold and bitcoin is a good alternative of Fiat Euro Dollar ......
bitcoin backed by gold
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