Topic: Bitcoin or Gold? What would you pick? - page 156. (Read 298970 times)

They simple make less available. Cant happen to BTC, we all know whats the limit and nobody controls all of it.

Mining is difficult and costly, inflation of the cost of mining has been tremendous; there is a so called recovery and heavy manipulation of the Gold market that push prices lower or to be more precise limit the raise of the price (price has been rising every year expect one in more than a decade and has rise this year even if the investment banks as GS or FED members were predicting the price to go down a lot)

I got your point, but I wouldn't call this value "intrinsic" since it varies with each use (subtracted or added) and is very misleading. Besides that, different people use this term in different meanings. Personally, I thought about the gold qualities and properties which are inherent to it that make it valuable to people...

We have that squeeze happening right now believe it or not, 1300 dollars for an ounce is not profitable for some mines to continue.   So we do have declining gold production in the world I think, time that together with South Africa scaling back its spectacular unique source of gold over the decades and gold is not as plentiful as it could be.

It does mean alot as gold already mined is not being circulated enough I think, for example we have Fort Knox reserves just doing nothing there while more money is being produced.  Yet we are to believe the restricted source of gold is to decline as a ratio vs dollars.   The major point I really wanted to make is world GDP or world population even is growing, so to say what we have is enough to satisfy future markets is not correct I think.
If we were referring to food, we'd not accept this as true; its fairly obvious we will need more food for more people in our continually growing world.  That is a consumable good I take your point but it is more easily produced and not a one off event as gold represents or bitcoin claims in its 21m only tagline :p

The baseline is that bitcoin fulfils a growing demand for global currency unrestricted and reliable.  If I didnt believe this was a growth market I'd not be here,   We cannot make do with what we have and printing is a fallacy

Yes, even in the bitcoin forum we can prove ownership of accounts by signing a message from a bitcoin address. So that could be an intrinsic value for bitcoin.

In the case of oil, cost of production is a good approximate for the floor price because people will stop producing oil if it drops below that price. However, gold and bitcoins are different. Oil is consumed, and so demand is satisfied only by fresh production. In the case of gold/bitcoins, once they are produced they are always available in the market.

For eg - if the cost of gold production is $500/ounce, gold prices could fall to $300 over the long term and stay at that price. All it means is that gold mines would shut down and we would be content with circulating the gold that has already been mined. Such a scenario might not happen with oil.

BTC does have a very small intrinsic use or value which is to carry secure messages.  I think this is possible, to securely encrypt a message on the blockchain that cannot be interfered with or compromised like a normal document.
Im not sure why people would value that especially but it is fairly unique to do, though I not sure its timeless as we may all just stop bothering with BTC network one day for some reason.  Where as destroying gold is very hard to do and its use is much more applicable or common

I dont think either should be dismissed as worthless but the easiest way to value a product is cost of production.   We just wont bother making any more if we arent paid our costs.  Long term thats true, gold is related to the oil price as so much energy is required to first recover it, refine and then smelt to a high purity

Some think gold could can fall back to 200 but more obvious to people should be, do you think oil will go back to 20 dollars a barrel ?   Realisitically that is just a dream and we know it and you cant expect gold to get cheaper every year.  Can the same apply to BTC as it is also energy related to a lesser extent; this does rely on its usage as the paramount crypto currency, I dont think we'll opt to have none at all now we got one

No problem - Gold currently trades at $1300/ounce. But let us assume that it is not being used as a store of value.

Consider the following uses
Gold finds use in industrial applications - If gold costs less than $800/ounce, it would find vast applications in some particular industry. If it is beyond that, people start using silver and demand decreases.

Gold finds use in teeth fillings - Let us say, if gold costs less than $700/ounce, a lot of people would prefer to have gold fillings. At higher prices people go in for other replacements.

In this scenario, even if gold is not looked at as a medium of exchange/store of value, it has other applications. The 'intrinsic' value is $800/ounce (the maximum price it can command in other applications)

both?

Okay, now try to explain to me this concept in your own words (as you understand it). Take gold as an example...

I would say bitcoin but I like to mix up things so my answer is: bitcoins and gold, but with prevalence of the first ones.

Intrinsic value is a concept. If something is suitable for multiple uses, then the intrinsic value would be related to the use that maximizes value.

I think everyone should say bitcoin, in the end bitcoin is the reason we are lurking in this forum. It is the better alternative to gold. The mainstream just lacks to understand it for now - we are all early adopters.

i like both of them

There is no such thing as "intrinsic value" since all value is subjective, whether something is suitable for just one use or for many uses simultaneously. Actually, these different uses may interfere with each other, that's one of the reasons why gold nowadays is not used as a currency...

Gold, cause I can trade it in the street no questions asked.

I have invested 70% of may savings in bitcoins, and the remaining 30% in gold.

He is talking about intrinsic value. i.e. if it wasn't used as a currency, are there any other uses for it? If yes, what is the value that can be attributed for those uses?

Wrong for obvious reasons. Bitcoin's use value is lying in its being a currency, i.e with a currency you can pay for dental work, buy jewelry and electronics, and, yes, buy gold too. Though Bitcoin is a would-be currency right now. 

I can use it to buy stuff, what are you talking about?

Gold has lower risk with higher expectancy of return.

Not saying owning bitcoin is bad, but you should not dismiss the risk of bitcoin dropping all the way to two digits.