Bitcoin Passphrase Recovery - page 2.

DenisGorbachev

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Quote from: franky1 on October 24, 2015, 05:12:32 AM

if you cannot trust 4 people in your life. then maybe they do not deserve to be your beneficiaries

Exactly.

The ultimate goal is to give access. Any system designed to give access can be breached/hacked/abused. So the real question to ask is "Does the system provide a good enough usability-to-security ratio?". For example, writing the password on a sticky note is very "usable" but not very "secure". Still, people do it (for non-critical passwords, hopefully).

franky1

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Quote from: dothebeats on October 24, 2015, 05:21:51 AM

Quote from: franky1 on October 24, 2015, 05:12:32 AM

Quote from: dothebeats on October 24, 2015, 05:06:04 AM

Seems like a neat idea actually. Just be careful on choosing whom to give a piece of the passphrase as it will be valuable in times of need. If in case one part of the passphrase is lost, creating the whole passphrase and safekeeping it would save you and your family in case one part was lost.

thats why you use static data, like a social security number or date of birth. so its readily available.. but without having to actually write down the data itself.
-snip-

But what if, say for example, all of the wielders of the passphrase were caught in an accident and you have no copy of the whole phrase, that means you already lose the funds if ever, so keeping one 'just in case..' would always come in handy, at least on how I view it.

as i said.. you dont hand out the splits of the passphrase to the person on post-it notes....
you use a piece of data that is significant to that person. and only mention that persons name in your will.... that is it

that way the lawyer wont even know the passphrase when drawing up the will as its not wrote anywhere. only hints are provided. that will only be pieced together when all 4 family members are at the reading of the will. and are people that collectively know each other to piece it together (should one die) and then under the supervision of the lawyer reading the will he will ensure it is administered correctly.

for instance until the will is read the 4 relatives have no clue if its their social security number, date of birth, or middle name which is the split.. they wont find out the hint until your death. and then only while infront of the lawyer will that hint be revealed. and if there are only 3 out of the 4 people alive. they under supervision of the lawyer will know the missing person to fill in that hinted info. to then split the funds as deemed moral

dothebeats

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Cashback 15%

Quote from: franky1 on October 24, 2015, 05:12:32 AM

Quote from: dothebeats on October 24, 2015, 05:06:04 AM

Seems like a neat idea actually. Just be careful on choosing whom to give a piece of the passphrase as it will be valuable in times of need. If in case one part of the passphrase is lost, creating the whole passphrase and safekeeping it would save you and your family in case one part was lost.

thats why you use static data, like a social security number or date of birth. so its readily available.. but without having to actually write down the data itself.
-snip-

But what if, say for example, all of the wielders of the passphrase were caught in an accident and you have no copy of the whole phrase, that means you already lose the funds if ever, so keeping one 'just in case..' would always come in handy, at least on how I view it.

franky1

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Activity: 4410

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Quote from: dothebeats on October 24, 2015, 05:06:04 AM

Seems like a neat idea actually. Just be careful on choosing whom to give a piece of the passphrase as it will be valuable in times of need. If in case one part of the passphrase is lost, creating the whole passphrase and safekeeping it would save you and your family in case one part was lost.

thats why you use static data, like a social security number or date of birth. so its readily available.. but without having to actually write down the data itself.

you then do not explain what category of data you are using of the individuals, you keep that safe and locked up in a will. you can even have a safe deposit box
which contains the order in which the splits should be positioned and keep that in another location for extra safety.

but the main bit is.... if you cannot trust 4 people in your life. then maybe they do not deserve to be your beneficiaries, and you should choose a charity or just a couple people to receive the inheritance

1Referee

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Quote from: DenisGorbachev on October 24, 2015, 05:00:49 AM

Amph, 1Referee — If some trustees turn against you, the others will still protect your funds. For example, an encoded passphrase can be split between mom, dad, wife, best friend. Even if dad, wife and best friend conspire against you, mom will still hold defense (by not giving them her part of the passphrase)

// I've added this to FAQ section in initial post

Raimonn, RustyNomad — You can send copies of the same piece to multiple trustees using a "split" technique:

Split the passphrase in 2 pieces
Send the 1st piece to mom and wife
Send the 2nd piece to dad and best friend

Even if best friend loses his piece, dad will still have his own copy. // Added this to FAQ also

Everybody — useful suggestions, thanks! What are the other problems you can think of?

That explains it all. Then again, doomthinkers will say; what if the last person gets forced by the others to turn in its part of the passphrase? It's not unlikely for something like that to happen. Especially when the price of Bitcoin is going through the roof at some point.

dothebeats

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Seems like a neat idea actually. Just be careful on choosing whom to give a piece of the passphrase as it will be valuable in times of need. If in case one part of the passphrase is lost, creating the whole passphrase and safekeeping it would save you and your family in case one part was lost.

franky1

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Quote from: Amph on October 24, 2015, 04:33:56 AM

if the trusted fiend have a full acces to it, then he can steal your fund, in the case your friend will be not your friend anymore, and money are knwon to have this power over friends and family...

well soem are immune to greed but they are the minority

thats why OP said split it..

EG
lets say you know the social security numbers of your spouse and 3 kids
wife 077-99-0099
kidA 087-96-3021
kidB 097-59-1239
kidC 107-98-5868
now without telling them... you make a passphrase using those 4 SS numbers
077990099087963021097591239107985868
you then add on a secret word
077990099087963021097591239107985868hullabaloo

now this is what you write in your will
"dear wife. my savings are locked into bitcoin using you, and our 3 kids SS numbers followed by the safe word we agreed on when having rough sex"

that way even the lawyers wont know it

DenisGorbachev

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Activity: 19

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Amph, 1Referee — If some trustees turn against you, the others will still protect your funds. For example, an encoded passphrase can be split between mom, dad, wife, best friend. Even if dad, wife and best friend conspire against you, mom will still hold defense (by not giving them her part of the passphrase)

// I've added this to FAQ section in initial post

Raimonn, RustyNomad — You can send copies of the same piece to multiple trustees using a "split" technique:

Split the passphrase in 2 pieces
Send the 1st piece to mom and wife
Send the 2nd piece to dad and best friend

Even if best friend loses his piece, dad will still have his own copy. // Added this to FAQ also

Everybody — useful suggestions, thanks! What are the other problems you can think of?

RustyNomad

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 251

Money, friends and family never go together, at least not with problems.

The solution you propose seems reasonable but it does come with risks. You will never be able to count on everyone 100% to store their piece of the puzzle in a safe location. If anyone of them lose their piece the puzzle cannot be completed. Best is to trust nobody. Make sure you have one or more copies of your passphrase and store these in different secure locations.

If you cannot manage this then you should maybe not have the kind of wallet where you manage everything. Best then to store your bitcoin with somebody like Coinbase or similar where your family, through your lawyers, can get hold of the funds after your passing. Not sure how Coinbase etc.. are setup but I'm sure they will be able to get to your bitcoins and get it paid to your family if everything is legally above board after your passing.

Raimonn

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Nice, but one of the trusted friends could loose its piece, and bitcoins will be lost forever. If you loose one of your friends, you will need to give its piece to another one. Its a good idea, but has some problems.

1Referee

legendary

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Friends/relatives are your worst enemy. Money makes friends, family and other relatives turn into thieves when they have the feeling that it potentially can be theirs if they so wish. It's better to let the coins stay unused in their wallets for ever.

Amph

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if the trusted friend have a full acces to it, then he can steal your fund, in the case your friend will be not your friend anymore, and money are knwon to have this power over friends and family...

well soem are immune to greed but they are the minority

DenisGorbachev

newbie

Activity: 19

Merit: 0

What if you generate an uber-secure passphrase for a wallet, then die? Or what if you simply forget the passphrase? Your Bitcoins will be lost forever.

I’ve imagined a simple solution:

Encode the passphrase
Split the resulting text into pieces
Send the pieces to 4+ trusted relatives / best friends

When you die or forget the password, your trustees will cooperate to assemble the original passphrase, decode it, recover your Bitcoins.

What are the problems with this solution?

... + don't forget to answer the poll! (right above this post)

---

FAQ based on comments:

Q: What if the trustees conspire to steal your funds?
A: If some trustees turn against you, the others will still protect your funds. For example, an encoded passphrase can be split between mom, dad, wife, best friend. Even if dad, wife and best friend conspire against you, mom will still hold defense (by not giving them her part of the passphrase)

Q: What if a trustee loses its piece of the passphrase?
A: You can send copies of the same piece to multiple trustees using a "split" technique:

Split the passphrase in 2 pieces
Send the 1st piece to mom and wife
Send the 2nd piece to dad and best friend

Even if best friend loses his piece, dad will still have his own copy.

Topic: Bitcoin Passphrase Recovery - page 2. (Read 1461 times)