Topic: Bitcoin plus - is it owned by a member of this forum? - RANT ALERT! - page 2. (Read 13347 times)

Its obvious what i meant and I'm not talking about running several PC's 24/7. i was comparing *now* with how long it took back when they had no fee before the difficulty changed.

Define a lot (I assume you mean "a lot" as "allot" means something else altogether). It took me about a week.

they lie, they say the minimum is .01 BTC. in reality the minimum is .02 BTC yet they don't display this anywhere to users unless they have .01 BTC. they have known about this for awhile yet they have made no change. payouts are only given out in amounts like .01,.02,.03,.04,.05 etc. so they wont give out amounts that overflow and there is *no* reason for this, they are scammers that lie to their users and make it difficult to get your money and/or are simply inept at coding. either way they should be black listed.

i should also mention, because of the difficulty increase it probably takes allot of time to get .02 from them these days.

for a complete understanding read the thread.

I dont think bitcoinplus is a scam. It is a very user friendly introduction to mining. If you download a CPU miner you will see that bitcoinplus's java miner is slower. But it's super convenient. Also, I was able to withdraw the first 0.01BTC I mined there. By the time I got around to my second 0.01BTC the fee was introduced. I assume it is the standard network fee imposed by the official client.

If you are patient then the fee will probably get reduced to 0.005 when the site owner gets around to it.

 

Yes... they can patch and rebuild bitcoind... but then you probably will wait a bit longer prior to see anything hit the blockchain.

*grumbles* those are Client side, you just said it yourself! i Wish i had read to the next paragraph, it had this Gem (3rd paragraph down)"Transaction fees are voluntary on the part of the person making the bitcoin transaction, as the person attempting to make a transaction can include any fee or none at all in the transaction" it cant get more clear then that.

so to say it again, clients may force a fee but the protocol doesn't, and you can recompile it yourself and have No fee. since the guy running the website has an automatic payout feature when you request payout he has a custom implementation of this therefore he can set whatever fee he likes.

Regardless of whether or not the client charges a fee, the site owner STILL hides the .02 minimum /he/ sets and has yet to switch to the current more reasonable fee. which is what .005? or was .0005?

Yesterday I was VERY close to finishing. I accidentally closed out of the page with around 5 seconds left. 

Yes, they may be, however, unlike with your bitcoin graphical client who asks you to confirm it when it will request a fee, bitcoind (the one without fancy graphics), doesn't do that, just let you know after you sent 0.018 instead of 0.008.

From the same page on the wiki:

...

lets break it down for you.

from the wiki link you posted in the vary first paragraph on the page. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees

lets have a look~

Transaction fees may be included with any transfer of bitcoins from one address to another. At the moment, many transactions are typically processed in a way where no fee is expected at all, but for transactions which draw coins from many bitcoin addresses and therefore have a large data size, a small transaction fee is usually expected.

May: (used  to  express possibility):

expected: (to suppose or surmise; guess): AKA Not a requirement. but something you Should pay.

required:
-to impose need or occasion for; make necessary or indispensable: The work required infinite patience.
-to demand; impose obligation: to do as the law requires.

Nowhere does it say "required" in that text.

i hope you understand.

Mixing the network protocol with the client?!  WTF are you talking about?! 

Dude... no wonder you're mining bit-micro-cents with your CPU!... Hey there's a guy from Nigeria up to give you 5 mil too, want to take the ride? I can forward you some of his emails...

I am not one to flame people, but BCEmporium Clearly does not understand transaction fees and seems to be mixing up network protocol with the client itself. even giving evidence that proves him wrong and claiming it proves him right. I think we should just ignore his posts, hes clearly not going to "See The Light" and we clearly are not going to "understand".

one thing we can do, if you use avast antivirus and have the firefox addon that lets you see a "Rating" of a website that users give, you can just give it the lowest rating possible. while it will only help people using Avast.. its better then nothing.

Do you live in the U.S. (It will make sense later on [I hope])?
Do you consider BitCoin to be a form of currency?

Why the questions? I believe (could be wrong, I'm not a lawyer) that in the U.S. (which I'm located) that any company that deals with money and the public are required to disclose.

BCP did not disclose anything. Please read this thread for details. They did not so much as post a link like you did.

If something like this happened to you, would you think it a scam?

Maybe? Please read this thread from the start (reread if you have to). After that, then don't you think you should do a re-write and get rid of the maybe?


No, that is not the case. It may (I'm being nice here) have been the case at one time.
Now, they know.


OK, what about the fee you are talking about. Why is it still 0.01 (I tried to transfer yesterday and it was still there)? As you may know, that the fee is 0.0005 now. Does it seem like a scam to you yet?

What about JK's information (taken from another thread):


Still not a scam?


If you are saying that BCP is in the 10% that should not be trusted, then I agree.


You want proof. Goto http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=17099.0 and read (not just my posts). After that, ask me questions on things that you are unsure of. Until you read my proof, could you please zip it (notice, I said please).


I don't understand this, however I will respond.

What I'm spreading is truth. The truth is that BCP has and is still scamming people. I do not see how me telling the truth about BCP is hurting BitCoin or the BitCoin network.

Truth should not spread FUD (Fear, uncertainty and doubt).

FEAR: I do not think that anyone is fearful of BCP. Their crime does not involve murder, rape, dismembering etc. They are just stealing small amounts of BTC from people.
Is that something to be afraid of? Avoided, yes. Feared, no.

UNCERTAINTY: No I am certain that BCP is scamming people. Hopefully you will read that and came to that yourself. I understand that you may not think that they are scamming (some would rather hope I use another word), however I think you would at least realize that BCP is not doing some things right. I haven't said that are scamming everyone, just some (which makes it such a great scam). I haven't even said that they are no-good (as in: they can bring nothing to the table). From what I read, if you have a website (or websites), then BCP could be a good fit for you. I don't have a website, so I can only tell you what I read.

What am I saying? Even with the things that they bring for websites, they are still scamming people.

DOUBT: Yea, I want you to doubt them. If you have read every thing then I'm sure you will see why you should doubt. Keeping in mind that the people with websites do not have a problem BCP (none that I heard of). OK, that is not 100% true. Some have expressed that they do not like that BCP doesn't disclose. However it is working for them (so let the BitCoins roll in). I would hope that they (website owners who use BCP) would keep an eye on BCP. I think that is the wise thing to do.

Feature? I associate features with benefits.
e.g, Feature: This car has a 5.0L engine.
Benefit: This car will zoom pass the others and you will get home faster.

Feature: We will charge you 0.01 (even though we could make it lower).
Benefit: After you get to 0.01 BTC and find out about the fee (that's when you find out, by the way), you would stop mining and we keep your BTC.


It BTC wants to be cost effective, then use JK's information (taken from another thread):


BTC is not going to do this, because it would hurt their scam. Right now they are saying, "Hey, it's not our fault that you have to pay the 0.01 fee, blame the BTC network. It's their fault, our hands are tied." Of course the fee is now 0.0005, however BTC doesn't mention that (bad for the scam).


Introduced? That's kind. How was it introduced to you. Was it when you tried to transfer BTC.


Better Communicated? Again, that's kind. It was not communicated at all. Look at the site and find the communication. You will not find it.


BCP is (maybe) not being up front? Say it isn't so. What they are doing is scamming. Lying by omission is lying by either omitting certain facts or by failing to correct a misconception. See http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lying_by_omission for more details. Lying by omission is scamming.


Is this before or after the introduction of the new feature?
could you send me the address of this transaction so I can see for myself?



That is not how the scam works. They scam from people who know found out it's a scam and don't want to play that game again.
Here is how it works. You goto BCP and starting mining.
-You get your 1st payout (Yea!!) and attempt to transfer your BTC. This is when that you told that you need a minimum of 0.01 to transfer.*
-You get to at least 0.01 and now you are told that you can't transfer because of a 0.01 fee.*
-You contact BTC via email and the say that you really need 0.02 to transfer and 0.01 would be lost because of the fee. Two points to make on this. BTC can lower the fee if the want (by using JK's info and/or updating their BTC client). On their site, when you try to transfer funds, it says that it is a 0.01 minimum to transfer.

What would you do? Mine until you get to 0.02 and lose 0.01. Or call it quits, step away and know that they are keeping your BTC.
 
When it happened to me, I called it quits (but not right away). While stepping away, I had to give it up to BTC. Great scam.
Very well played sir, very well played.


I think they knew what they were doing from the start. If not, they saw the opportunity for starting a scam and took it.
In either case, still a scam.

* It is not listed anywhere else on the site.

Talking of lack of information as lying by omission, so you don't apply it as falacy, from a real story which happened to me:

I went to buy a grilled chicken, when the I arrive to the car my wife noticed the chicken was cold. I went back and complaint, the answered of the clerk was amazing: «You didn't told me you want it hot»
WTF! Grilled chicken is already meant to be hot, if was cool it was his duty to inform me or was "lying by omission" - because the thing wasn't the way it was meant to be.
Now, if I want a cold grilled chicken, but don't state it, and he give me one hot, then my complaint would be foolish, if I want it cold I should had ask as so.

Like selling and car stating it have 4 wheels... so what? It is already implicit, if it have 3 or 5 you may need to inform the customer, if has 4 is just a plain normal car.

IT IS NOT (notice I added bold, italic and underline).

That fee is already stated here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees

OK, maybe the site's owner was relying in ignorance or just think you know what bitcoin is before use his service.
Lack of information isn't always a scam, or scam sign, if the thing is meant to be widely known.

Calling scammer to someone so lightly over a community that's 90%+ trust based is bullshit! Either you've solid evidence or zip it! Spread FUD is an attack on the community.

True, however BTC will not do this. I know. I was told by them that they will charge 0.01 on any amount. Also they could lower to the current rate of 0.0005. Nope, not doing that either. Also they could use JK's information (taken from another thread):



I assume that you think that BCP is not a scam. Does it still not seem like a scam?

Keep in mind that BCP was paying the transaction and changed their policy (without telling anyone through the site). You would have to find that information by contacting them through email.

Do you think it is a scam yet? No. They can change policies without informing people. Even Facebook will inform you when they make changes. In their case it is hiding in one of their settings, but it is there.

BCP does't disclose anything. That is a scam. I know many don't like that word (scam). Honestly, you must admit that what BCP does is not right and it is still happening.

+1

It is a scam. Maybe I should write it in a way for greater impact (like you).

IT IS A SCAM darn it! (noticed I added bold text ).

That lack of information you mentioned is why it is a scam. This is called "Lying by omission"*. 

The fact that it is a small amount, is what makes it a great scam. Look what you wrote: "... are you 9 yo kids or what?!"
Is this to mean, stop complaining about being scammed since it is such a small amount?

Well what you wrote is not as bad as some. Some blame the people who got scammed for trusting BCP. They should have known better. Everyone ones knows that BCP is meant for websites. Someone even called one of the scammed a fool. Wow. You are a fool for being scammed. That seems wrong to me (maybe not to you).

The ones who don't know much about BitCoin are the ones who are being scammed. BCP knows this and lets it happen. Without telling them so they can make an informed decision.

Guess what, it is still happening.

Full disclose: I was scammed by BCP. I was also the one who was called a fool.
Why does't BCP disclose how they do things? Answer: They are scamming people.

* Lying by omission is lying by either omitting certain facts or by failing to correct a misconception. See http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lying_by_omission for more details.

Yeah, and if you just "made" your 0.01 and rush to withdraw it, rushing the transaction will result in a network fee. Unless you want to collect your 0.01 without input it to the blockchain (ask him to create and send you a wallet with 0.01 by mail for an instance).
It wasn't direct at you alone, but to all who keep whining over cents.