Topic: Bitcoin should be at $13,500 ? - page 4. (Read 6840 times)

Nope. You are incredibly, retardedly, wrong. CC fees are priced into the goods/services you receive, as they are contractually prevented from adding a charge for CC billing in most cases. So the lower the tx fee for ANY service, the lower the overhead. If you think you're not affected by a recipient tx fee vs. a sender tx fee, you're wrong

Merchants are allowed to charge less for cash but not more for CC. Most don't do this. Gas stations are a notable exception. For the most that don't, it's equivalent to everyone paying a little more to cover CC cost. For those that do, it's equiv. to getting a discount for cash payments. Just like I give my customers discounts for BTC payments as it's less trips to the bank for me, less hassle, and no fees (I don't use BitPay.)

Ok, so here naphto really reveals his stupidity as he obviously does not understand decimal points. Go back to highschool dude! 

Why a "bitcoin" and not a "megabitcoin" or a "kilobitcoin" or a "minibitcoin?" Why "they wouldn't spend 13.5k for that" and not "they wouldn't spend 13.5k for a kilobitcoin" or "they wouldn't spend 10k for a yodabitcoin" like wtf for real? That's like the most noob mistake you could possibly make. Fungibility. Lrn2monetarytheory.

It seems like you are taking a singular example and assuming all business everywhere forever will follow the same fee schedule.  Don't you realize how absurd of an assumption that is?

Here is a singular example that blows your whole theory out of the water: http://www.slysoft.com/en/

ZOMG!  10% discount for using bitcoin, in comparison credit cards have an 11.1% increased "fee".  Your silly 5% fee at DigiDeals doesn't seem like such a big deal anymore.

    Compare fees to double digit inflation in many countries, and how are 1% exchange fees more expensive than WU fees of up to 20% for comparable speed. The cheapest Western Union fees are 5%, and it takes several days. This is to places where banking institutions are not widely distributed. I am guessing it is hard to imagine life like this in Denmark.

    I understand there is a gap here, because bitcoin adoption is mainly happening in post-industrial societies. There are barriers. Once the dam starts to crack, what starts as a trickle will soon start to grow.

    Take this example- in the Congo-Kinshasa, dollars are the defacto currency, with the Congolese franc being totally mismanaged. Small purchases like vegetables, coffee, or time in an internet cafe are paid with francs, but cars, real estate, diamonds, oil, and so forth, is all dollar based transactions.
    The dollars role as de facto world currency is the only reason that the Fed can print dollars with impunity without inflation skyrocketing. It's because hundreds of millions of people believe they have value, and this trust is being horrendously abused right now.

   So in the Congo, where all big purchases are made with dollars, someone can buy 50 BTC for $5,550 right now from their job in a fish processing plant in Alaska to Kinshasa. The purchase takes 4 days, and costs a 1% exchange fee of $55.50. They are sent in 30 minutes to Kinshasa, where someone can change the BTC back into dollars for another 1% fee. Okay, it cost over a hundred dollars to send the money, plus fluctuations could have resulted in a loss or gain of another couple of hundred dollars.

    If you compare this to a bank wire transfer fee, which are usually $35 to $75 for the same amount, the BTC-USD exchange rate entirely determines whether or not it was more efficient.

Both:

1) Recognition of its value in countries with high inflation and use for major purchases
2) More efficient exchanges

   could make BTC a better option than wire transfer. Also the scarcity of banking services or capital controls in some countries also add cost barriers that make BTC, especially mobile BTC transfers more cost effective.

   I don't expect people who haven't spent time in Africa to understand this, but take my word for it- this could become an international currency see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_inflation_rate

   This idea will not be stopped.

      

It's alright guys, naphto is attempting to use his head

QE3's 2.8 billion new USD per day vs 3600 new bitcoin per day, $778K per coin, at 1% acceptance, $7.8K per coin

People tends to forget how much new USD were created daily, out of nothing

How the hell would bitcoins be able to reduce those fees?
If you want to buy btc with kroners, you have to convert kroner to usd first (or euros), and then convert usd (or euros) into bitcoins.
You will get charged:
(1) by your bank for converting kroners.
(2) by mtgox for converting usd.



But, if you find a reliable way to convert kroner => btc and btc => usd, maybe you can save money.
But at which price? Too much of a hassle compared with the easiest way: international wire.


So, yes, it could save money, but not likely to be used by most of the world population.

Being here does not forbid/prevent from using your brain 

Someone on the bitcointalk forum who doesn't support bitcoin/altcoin 100%? Burn him at the stake!

   Don't forget that it can revolutionize global remittance market, really can be used effectively for tax evasion, can be used to cheaply move around international sanctions in big markets like Iran, and can provide a hedge against inflation in countries like Sudan, where inflation is at 30%, and the black market exchange rate for the dollar is nearly double the official rate.

  I believe Mr. Nakamoto had a paradigm changing disruptive technology in mind that could completely change the political and economic landscape of the planet when bitcoin was designed. The global remittance market is over $500 billion right now. Bitcoin offers substantial efficiency gains in speed and ease of transfer. If bitcoin captures 1% of this market then bitcoin market cap will increase to 6 billion, with each bitcoin being worth $545. For credit cards in countries with built up payment infrastructure, maybe you as a consumer can see charges associated with electronic payments as the sellers problem. If you trust the banks, including your country's central bank.
   And do you think in a country where monthly income per capita is around $300 dollars, and then one family starts getting a payment from a family member working in Sweden for $550 a month through BTC exchanges instead of the $510 a month they were getting with Western Union, do you really think their neighbors are just going to ignore this and keep using Western Union?


  Get real, speculators. You're in a new dimension now. Newtonian laws do not apply in quantum or relativistic space. Welcome to hyperspace.

If my credit card would charge me any fee higher than bitcoin I would agree with that.
But considering the fact that the fee with my credit card is 0, I disagree.


I don't. My bank does not charge me anything for providing me a credit card, and using it. Mercants do.
Not to mention that if my credit card got stolen, I can get my money back. If my btc address is stolen, I can't do shit.


The only restriction I have is to pay more than 10 euros with my credit card (else I have to use cash). But the price is the same if I pay with check, credit card, cash, so...


See above.
Not to mention that I can withdrawn cash without being charged any fee.
Not to mention that before paying anything with btc, you have to buy them, and the fees are even greater than btc transaction fee.


That's bullshit again.
Some website said they accept bitcoin, like that "DigiDeals" in Australia. When you want to pay online, guess what:




Bitcoin fees will always be higher that credit card fees.
Try to figure out why by yourself.

That's about human psychology.
Why the top was about 250 usd a few weeks ago? Because 250 is 1/4 of one thousand usd. That's why ... People understood that it was overestimated. It could have been 500 or 1 000 as well.

You can find 1 guy stupid enough to pay 1 000 usd for 1 btc, but not enough people to maintain the price that high.
Bitcoin was not designed to be used for anything else that it is now:
- wannabe-traders-willing-to-make-money
- negligible trades (for drugs, geeks, or money laundering)

Bitcoins fees are not too high. Whether or not you realize it you are indirectly paying a fee every time you use your credit card.
Merchants pay credit card fees that average around 2.5-3% of the transaction and that cost is passed on to the consumer (you're kidding yourself if you think it isn't). That's why more and more merchants offer cash discounts.
Bitcoin fees are negligible compared to that. .0001 btc on a .1btc transaction is only 0.1%
All that is needed is an easy method for mainstream implementation.

I think this will happen in 100 years.

You're assuming people would be dealing with entire bitcoins regularly. what's wrong with a satoshi

Oh with credit cards you pay the fees, it's just not separated out of the item cost in most cases.

Historically anyway merchants were not allowed to charge less for cash, many wanted to.
Now some actually do.

The article does not into account the whole picture


+ the main argument should not be based on stupid assumption like "the bitcoin market should represent xxxx in the future", but "how much an average human being is willing to pay for 1 bitcoin?".


Considering a 10 % chance of loosing it all, does anyone will be willing to spend 13.5 k usd for that? Not even close...

Bullshit.
My credit card is free of charge for me (as a customer), I don't give a shit if the merchant have to pay an American company for providing this service. But I know, and I care, that everywhere in the country I can use it, without paying any fee. Bitcoins fees are way too high.

Thanks for the tip, I just copied and pasted myself 10 million bitcoins...time to party

lol... yes, thanks for the laugh...

^^^^^