Topic: Bitcoin: The Digital Kill Switch - page 14. (Read 55260 times)

It could be premeditated or it could just happen naturally.

The large retailers will offer mining for free, because they want to make sure their transactions get processed quickly and as an advantage over their competitors.

Over time this becomes consolidated and cartelized, because the economic incentive to do so exists in Bitcoin's flawed design.


I would only differ to emphasize that this can happen very slowly and appear to be part of competition amongst retailers vying to offer lower transaction fees.

It is the long run where one day it is cartelized and by then it is much too late to change systems.

666

I assume you are making the argument that the labor or wages component of the mining cost (or even the mining cost itself) is not what gives the value to the Bitcoin?

This has nothing to do with the thesis of my article and the diabolical threat I have shown exists.

Indeed you are correct that the value of Bitcoins derives from factors that have nothing to do with the cost of mining.

And the threat I am explaining has nothing to do with the value of the Bitcoins.

The threat I am explaining can coexist with a very high value for the Bitcoins.

I am explaining that the threat is that since there is no guaranteed income stream for the miners after the 21 million coins are minted, then cartels can offer the processing for free (or below actual cost), thus driving all other honest miners bankrupt. Thus the cartel will control the system. It doesn't mean they will do anything noticeably malicious. They can hide their malicious activities in a way that the broad public will never see, somewhat analogous to how they hide now their crackdown on freedom behind the lie of a "war on terror". The broad public believes it is a war on terror-- they don't understand it is a war on freedom.

Your post is an example of why I think it is important to let newbies post on this thread (you had 5 posts at the time of writing the above). You demonstrate that you don't understand the application of the economic concept you are putting forward as an argument.

Your cockiness about "Marxists" is so ironic, because your misapplication of economics makes you the Marxist and you don't even realize it. Wake up sheep! Your ignorance will lead you into your cocky slaughter by the cartel. They confuse you very easy.

The correct reaction is not to feel hurt, but to thank me for snapping you out of your delusion.

How many times have I written up thread that the cartelization threat has nothing to do with an overt 51% attack. Are you deaf, dumb, and blind?

Could you please learn to read the entire thread before making redundant arguments which have already been refuted up thread. Do you think I have time to come here and continually refute the same thing over and over again. You are trying to filibuster me so I won't have time to code.

It is not necessary for the cartel to fork the block chain, nor do anything noticeably malicious. You won't even know they are monopolizing the mining, except that you will notice that mining is becoming increasingly free or at below cost.

They can make their profits in an invisible way as I said in the prior post, "It can be hidden behind invisible 'transfer pricing' (a more general concept of transferring pricing to taxes, fees on your competitors, etc)."

I have written this same explanation 3 times up thread already. You lazily and ignorantly come here slinging mud without even reading the thread.

So you deserve to be embarrassed.



Spell checker is your friend.


This shows you are too ignorant to be a reliable source here.

Pre-minting does nothing to insure sufficient base of miners.



No we are adhering to the principle that you should read the thread before making stupid posts, which are redundant arguments that have already been refuted up thread.

Good points, but your economics are a bit off.

Let me take the time to remind everyone that the value of gold and Bitcoin (or whatever, really) isn't determined by the labor theory of value (you little Marxists, you).  These assets are valuable because they're scarce, not because labor or wages contributed to their genesis.  I mean come on...that's like Econ 101.

If there is a 51% attack then the chain is split in two parts and it will be pretty obvious who has the offending part.
This is a technical aspect of bitcoin and cannot be hidden.
This cartel would have to own all of the mining (which they can't cause people will be mining just to show them wrong) to be able to attack bitcoin and not get noticed.


Let me ask you a question back.
Are you even capable of organizing your conspiracy theories in your head before writing a scentence?

New coins can be pre-mined untill they are safe enough for the future.
I don't see the problem.

Ok, so we're playing the 'If you don't agree with me your either an idiot or profiting from 666 currency' game now, right?

I'm sorry i called you a troll previously, you are clearly just broken to the head.

mobodick I will back shortly to reveal that you are wrong about your allegation that the threat from the cartel does not exist.

You also don't seem to understand how impossible it will be to migrate from Bitcoin in the future. You think the alleged attack will be noticeable, it won't be. It can be hidden behind invisible "transfer pricing" (a more general concept of transferring pricing to taxes, fees on your competitors, etc).

Let me ask you a question. Is the terrorism real the US govt has the citizen's fighting? Is that attack on our freedom invisible or noticeable? Can you get the citizens to know that it is a lie? How?

Duh! You don't realize how foolish your thinking is?

You seem to forget the weakness of a P2P database is the smallness of its peer proof-of-work. If you switch to a new p2p currency, but the masses don't switch, your new p2p currency can so easily be destroyed.

Duh! Are you just a total idiot?

Or are you profiting from making a cartel 666 currency?

You never think in terms of scale. You think the knowledgable ones are the majority. What fucking planet is that?

EVERYONE, I am doing a marketing survey before I will code. If you want me to code, I need to see others defending the need for my proposal. No one makes a currency alone.

And you better get it soon, because in a few more months, the opportunity is gone forever. You will be locked into the 666 currency direction with BitCON.

In fact, you started a whole series of negative FUD stories since you registered on the 24th.
You demanded access to a thread because you had evidence that bitcoin will break down in a month? LOL

Your trollcraft is pretty weak for bitcoin standards.

I will be back to rebutt mobodick, I want to go write something else first and make a few phone calls before 5pm EST USA.

Electrum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrum).

History repeats itself. But now these coins will be truly electronic. And there is no annoying "coin".

I understand you are thinking of the promotional aspect.

Is that the meaning you want people to think of first when thinking about protecting their money from the confiscation wave that is going to go bezerk globally over the next few years?

ALL PAPER MONEY is going to be confiscated in ALL COUNTRIES, including CHINA.  All pensions, all life insurance plans, all stocks and bonds, all of it will go "poof".

Please read the following (read all of JustSaying's (my) comments following the linked one):

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=4867&cpage=1#comment-397475

It is a valid point and if anyone can give the project a better name, then I am willing.

But my point is also that BITCOIN means negative to most americans, but they figure it out. BIT means small piece. Why would I want a small piece of a coin?

Well... It's ur coin so u decide, but not only the Russians speak Russian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language). Seems u r going to sacrifice them as well.

I started it in Newbies section because at the time AFAIK, it was the only area I had permission to post. I think it should stay in the Newbies section because I am doing a market survey, as well as discussing the ideas. The experts are finding their way into this thread, it is good to have a mix of discussion with experts and newbies. If you are going to move this thread, then you must move the thread on Bytecoin launch and numerous others, such as those comparing Litecoin, etc.. Unless there is some highly technical topic, I think you should respect the desires of the person who started the thread and which audience they wish to target.

As for the name, I registered DURACASH too. This type of conjunction of partial words is called a portmanteau.



If the Russians are the only ones who get a bad connotation from the english fragments, I think we can sacrifice them. They can learn. Considering they just got their butts handed to them in Cyprus, they will need to become smarter. I read on Thaivisa, that they cause a lot of commotion and problems in Thailand with scams and travel businesses they set up (don't know if this is true or if all nationalities are causing equivalent problems). Or let them stay with Bitcoin, we need multiple P2P currencies.  Someone with a 150 - 170 IQ who I created the term "open source", wrote The Cathedral and the Bazaar (which launched all these open source movement), and who I respect very much, has written the following about the Russians yesterday:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=4867&cpage=1#comment-397459


DURACASH is sufficiently different than Bitcoin, and the units would be duracoins. I definitely have been searching for a name that is sufficiently different than Bitcoin. I thought of DOTCOIN, but everybody hated that. My daughter likes DIGICOIN, but that is not available. If anyone can donate a better name, I suppose we can offer then coins in exchange and they can have the excitement of the appreciation of value.

I thought of other names trying to say the coin lives in the internet such as cosmocoin and ethercoin (or cash versions). Does anyone prefer these or prefer a meaning of privacy instead of durable, e.g. stealthcoin (but that is negative)?

The intended meaning is durable, meaning that it can't go "poof" as the money did in Cyprus and MF Global and also AFAIR in Spain's Bankia bailout where they gave deposits receipts for some paper instrument that was subsequently devalued.  Durable not only because it can't go "poof", but also because the cartel can't monopolize it because everybody can mine on their regular PC, and because the anonymity will be much stronger than Bitcoin.

Btw, BITGOLD is not plagarism, it adds value to BITCOIN and causes more people to use BITCOIN. Anything "BIT" is going to end up sending traffic to BITCOIN.

The general public has no idea what "BIT" means. My daughter is very smart and she knew what a "BYTE" is but she didn't realize there are 8 bits in a byte. And most of the general public is even less aware. Bit has numerous meanings in english. In for example Finland, they invented a word in the 1980s Bitto or something like that, which has the specific meaning, so Bitcoin works for them.

The best name in the america would something like Cybercoin or Digicoin. Bitcoin is flying over their heads. But they learn fast. People can learn fast when they are motivated.

The most important factor is to choose a name that is brandable. Meaning it doesn't have a zillion permutations just like it. And which has a meaning that can make sense. Durable seems to be a very positive quality for money. I envision a logo that is a combination lock. And there is nothing else similar to that name that also means the same. STURDYCOIN or STRONGCOIN don't have the same short brandable quality.

Questions / comments?

I'm wondering why you started this pretty technical bitcoin thread right in the newbie section in the first place.
You must have understood that most people reading this will have very little knowledge about how bitcoin actually functions and that most people reading this will not have enough information to understand the implications.
Seems to me you seek soft souls to deposit your fairytales.

That would be the perfect opportunity for John to switch currency...
I think you are highly underestimating the emergent properties of something like bitcoin.
If the cartel wants to process for free they will need to provide the computational power.
If they decide not to process some stuff then someone else will make this processing power available.
The end result will be that there will be an ecosystem of currencies and noone will have control over the whole.
The cartell will need to evaluate their desire to control a coin against the losses of customers rejecting it for that reason.
It is a form of democratisation of currency.

If a cartell gains this kind of power and abuses it even once it can be proven through the block chains and at that very moment the whole coin cannot be trusted anymore. Effectively the cartel would commit suicide.
Momentum or not, investors will pull back and the coin the cartell has control over will crash pretty hard.

Why would any cartel want to do that and how would they retain the value of a coin that includes proof of them tampering with it?

LOOL!
Feeding FUD to the newbies?

Who the hell is this by Shelby H. Moore III anyway?
He seems to be very prolific at selective reasoning.

The powers to be already own it. Day one entity Satoshi owned more than 50% and never relinquished power since.

If anyone would try to establish a "one world currency" the traditional way he would face a revolt and people fighting toe to nail. Yet coming in in a a*se about way from behind it becomes "cool" and people trolling over each other to have a "one world currency".!

Hey maybe you could start a new thread for your coin project?

You will need a name that is at least as effective and brandable as BITCOIN.

Duracoin Does not sound sufficiently brandable for the following reasons:

1.) The "Dura" part is not clear enough for its meaning. Does it mean durable? Whole words are definitely more hooking than concatenations or partial words.

2.) Coin is an imitation of bitcoin, which could be seen as plagiarism and hinder progress. Sufficiently intelligent people, who are going to be a major factor in facilitating adoption, do not advocate plagiarism (diverting from the bitcoin technical model is not seen as plagiarism, whereas copying the name "coin" for unit of currency probably would).

For a p2p currency to become successful you need to have a name that:

a.) includes reference to money. There are not many of these. Coin is obvious, note is another. Dollar could do, if it didn't have so negative connotations already and especially after it goes down the drain. Money is probably too flat and long. Mark could be viable, but I don't know if its meaning is known enough outside Europe.

b.) is easy pronounce and conceptualize.

c.) strikes home the essence of the currency. Bitcoin is very good, although it sounded naive at first. You'll have hard time topping that.

The Russians won't support this coins. In Russian "DURA" sounds as "female fool".

We have a possible name for this new coin.

DURACOIN

Any opinions?