Bitcoin usage in crime activity. - page 6.

Bananington

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Quote from: crypticj on April 01, 2023, 08:28:10 PM

The problem here is that the system should have some way to fight these criminals because we don't want bitcoin to be associated with drugs and sex trafficking, but the problem is, by solving these problems we should get rid of anonymity which is a pillar for the bitcoin technology, so it can't be done. And this problem might be a big obstacle in mass bitcoin adoption and regulations that are coming.

Many people in the crypto space have had this thought, It is why I brought up this topic recently on this forum for discussion; Could there be any importance and need for some kind of mild regulations? The general opinion that you can observe from the discussion is that before bitcoin will be accepted by the government, they will need to find a way for some mild regulations to be able to ensure bitcoin is not exploited and abused by criminals.

Quote from: crypticj on April 01, 2023, 08:28:10 PM

how to make bitcoin technology "safer" so we could fight a crime committed with crypto and help with bitcoin adoption without taking away the main features of bitcoin like decentralization and anonymity?

Bitcoin has to be accepted first, before it will be adopted.

Yatsan

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Has been existing eversince. This technology promotes anonymity with transactions and that also covers illegal ones. What can we do about it? None. Those transactions are simply payments and it is the wrongdoings which should be condemned and not the mode of payment. Even with fiat currencies, tracing only is being used to track accounts involved but not certain with the one who did a crime. And it is not this technology's fault if it would be involved on such things because no matter what currency is being used, the purpose of crimes are solely with doers' intentions.

Would it be the reason to stop adoption of this technology? Has low chances that it is. It would be more acceptible to know that countries are afraid because of the risk involved, but with crimes? that's too far from a currency's purpose and function.

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Quote from: Lucius on April 02, 2023, 05:56:21 AM

-snip-
Criminals still prefer fiat, because not only is it safer for them, but because Bitcoin is not as anonymous as you think.

People think Bitcoin always has privacy that can never be revealed. All transactions are permanently recorded on the blockchain ledger and can be viewed by anyone, so they will eventually lead to the owner of the asset.

Criminals still prefer fiat, of course, that's true. In the end, criminals use fiat to make transactions.
Bitcoin is just a disguise at first, as a cleanup of crimes that use mixer services and such.

Quote from: Taskford on April 02, 2023, 06:32:46 AM

They just use crypto because they can easily use it upon doing transaction everywhere and they can use mixers to hide their tracks. But actually this is not solely happening on crypto since this is also really happening on fiat. Criminals using different methods since they are taking advantage on something where the hype is on. So its so exaggerated for other to think bitcoin is used for only illegal activities just like those other people or officials who are skeptical about its purpose.

Using mixer services to hide traces of crime is a common practice. Some time ago services like Chipmixer were shut down by Europol because they were proven to be involved with several money laundering crime transactions. this proves that mixer services will not always be safe,
When you can't catch the criminals then catch the services the criminals use.

Some other methods of laundering usually also use gambling sites to launder the proceeds of crime, so that the criminal trail of money can be clean.
This is a full concern and regulations for online gambling are getting tighter.

tabas

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Quote from: crypticj on April 01, 2023, 08:28:10 PM

So I want to hear your opinion: how to make bitcoin technology "safer" so we could fight a crime committed with crypto and help with bitcoin adoption without taking away the main features of bitcoin like decentralization and anonymity?

We can't do anything about it but just to start the good use through ourselves. Why? Because every currency in the world is being used either with good or bad use. And that's why we just have to use it in the good and best ways that we can because no matter how we advocate the good usage of it, there will be people that will go against that advocacy for the betterment of the impression of bitcoin. Even in USD and other fiat, there have been illegal usage and the government can't even stop it because those criminals will always use whatever they want that has monetary value as much as they can. That's the reason even if it has a feature of being decentralized and giving anonymity to its user, it's like a double edged sword.

Awaklara

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Quote from: Ojima-ojo on April 02, 2023, 07:23:51 AM

Even the traditional currencies are mostly used for crime kidnapped ransom is paid in United dollars euro or other local currencies, so for you to say that bitcoin is mostly used for crime is an understatement and the ratio is large and one of the things way ransoms are paid is through physical cash.

Bitcoin is just performing it role as the alternative currency and anyone can use it since it is decentralized and open source.

it's not Bitcoin that's the problem. but back to the user. just as fiat is misused for criminal activities. Bitcoin is also a tool used by perpetrators.
the problem is how to prevent criminals from using Bitcoin as a tool. KYC which is applied to local exchanges can be said to be the method that we currently encounter the most. but indeed it comes into conflict with the anonymity of Bitcoin.
however, if there is a crime using Bitcoin, of course, it will have an impact on the market. this market is very susceptible to Hype.

Lillominato89

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by now associating Bitcoin with illegality has become commonplace, but is it really like this? perhaps it could have been 5/6 years ago but now and after the introduction of the KYC it has become complex for scammers and criminals to obtain FIAT currency! as what is reported as a scam/crime on the blockchain remains so forever. there is no absolute anonymity on Bitcoin unfortunately

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Quote from: Kakmakr on April 02, 2023, 03:59:35 AM

It is not Bitcoin's responsibility to stop crime, just as the governments of the world were not concerned that Fiat are widely used by criminals. There are other ways for law enforcement to catch criminals... Example : A drug Kingpin have many people working for him... they run the drugs for him, but he takes massive profits.

He buys luxury cars and properties and run businesses that launder money for him.... those are the focus points for law enforcement, not the currency that are used. Wink

They catch them and charge them with money laundering / Tax evasion ...etc... no matter what payment method they used. Grin

Money laundering and so on is a problem that existed even before bitcoin existed, even now and so on money laundering and other crimes continue to exist and mostly use fiat money through banking, illegal business and so on. So not all crime occurs because of bitcoin and this will actually make many people misjudge.
maybe some criminals just use anonymity to facilitate their actions, everything that happens is the duty of the law who must seek the truth and realize that everything that happened has happened a long time ago and can never be lost and that is life.

Frankolala

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As long as bitcoin is a currency,it will be involved in illegal activities because human are the ones using bitcoin. Human nature is common with illegal activities because some people see that as a means of making huge profit. Fiat is also attached more to illegal activities,since it is used worldwide by all countries and it all countries there are always illegal activities carried out by citizens.

Although, this will not affect the nature of bitcoin or its adoption from spreading because any government that blames bitcoin as the key factor to illegal activities is been biased. The culprit should be face whatever crime he committed and not putting the blame on bitcoin. Anonymous or no anonymous criminal activities will always be carried out by evil people.

Rupok

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You have talked about very important issues. Still various countries have declared Bitcoin illegal, they consider Bitcoin a threat to that country.In countries that do not recognize Bitcoin, the use of Bitcoin is considered to be associated with crime.It has a lot of impact on the common investor. Not all Bitcoin users are associated with crime.It is true that there are many unscrupulous people who use Bitcoin for bad purposes and it is very difficult to catch them because Bitcoin is great for anonymous transactions and avoiding bank and government control.Criminals use Bitcoin for this reason.They think Bitcoin transactions are very safe and their crime activities will be safe.Hopefully very soon will be change this system.

BenCodie

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Criminals use fiat currency as well...in fact, I could bet that 90%+ of all criminal activity volume would be in the fiat realm than in the realm of Bitcoin or cryptocurrency as a whole. The only reason why it is so highlighted with Bitcoin is because:
1. Very wealthy people/corporations or extremely well-funded organizations who are behind armies of lawyers or a large amount of power are usually behind fiat crime, and are essentially invincible and invisible. One great example is HSBC.
2. The blockchain keeps a record of everything. Crime committed with Bitcoin is there forever, crime committed with fiat especially on the scale like the above is much harder to prove and store in history.

Crime will never go away. Maybe it will be reduced with Bitcoin as time goes on. Crime's existence in Bitcoin isn't really what's hindering Bitcoin's adoption though in my opinion.

rby

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Quote from: crypticj on April 01, 2023, 08:28:10 PM

The problem here is that the system should have some way to fight these criminals because we don't want bitcoin to be associated with drugs and sex trafficking, but the problem is, by solving these problems we should get rid of anonymity which is a pillar for the bitcoin technology, so it can't be done. And this problem might be a big obstacle in mass bitcoin adoption and regulations that are coming.

Which system do you want to fight the use of Bitcoin in committing crime? Do you mean the Bitcoin system or what?
Fighting crime is the responsibility of the government and with the help and cooperation of its citizens. It is not the duty of Bitcoin fight crime.

Do you have any correctional centre in your country that is named bitcoin. Do you have any police force in your country that is called bitcoin police force. Do you have any president in your country that is called bitcoin president. So how would people using bitcoin to perpetrate evil be arrested by the Bitcoin system.
Bitcoin is money, nobody fights US because crime was cimmited with dollars.

Ojima-ojo

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Even the traditional currencies are mostly used for crime kidnapped ransom is paid in United dollars euro or other local currencies, so for you to say that bitcoin is mostly used for crime is an understatement and the ratio is large and one of the things way ransoms are paid is through physical cash.

Bitcoin is just performing it role as the alternative currency and anyone can use it since it is decentralized and open source.

Taskford

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Quote from: cryptoaddictchie on April 02, 2023, 12:28:17 AM

Quote from: Husires on April 01, 2023, 10:55:10 PM

Almost all currencies are misused in one way or another. Centralization here does not mean that currencies will not be misused. Cash is used in most of the drug trade. As for central systems, if we take banks as an example, despite the strict regulations, we note that the banking system is used in money laundering and extensively in illegal activities.

Yes currencies has been misused but I doubt that the government are just ignoring it right? Means they are indeed compromise those illegal people. Comparing to bitcoin and decentralized, its really contradicting the situation. We cant argue with OP since criminals are really taking advantage Satoshi made and that has been seen everywhere. Like the seized of chipmixer, whom discovered been used on laundering.

They just use crypto because they can easily use it upon doing transaction everywhere and they can use mixers to hide their tracks. But actually this is not solely happening on crypto since this is also really happening on fiat. Criminals using different methods since they are taking advantage on something where the hype is on. So its so exaggerated for other to think bitcoin is used for only illegal activities just like those other people or officials who are skeptical about its purpose.

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Quote from: crypticj on April 01, 2023, 08:28:10 PM

Hello crypto bros.

We already told you not to call us "crypto bros.", but you are obviously illiterate to the extent that you cannot read several comments in the thread you open.

Quote from: BenCodie on March 25, 2023, 08:55:38 PM

Firstly, -1 for calling us crypto bros. We aren't twats who shill altcoins to every soul we come across. Don't feed this terrible meme or expand its reach to people who advocate Bitcoin.
~snip~

Quote from: crypticj on April 01, 2023, 08:28:10 PM

Bitcoin is great in means of anonymous transactions and getting away from the banks and government control, but the problem is, it's the exact problem why criminals are using it. And it's a pretty big one. I'm not saying that criminals use bitcoin more than fiat, but we all can see that illegal services are widely accepting bitcoin.

The problem here is that the system should have some way to fight these criminals because we don't want bitcoin to be associated with drugs and sex trafficking, but the problem is, by solving these problems we should get rid of anonymity which is a pillar for the bitcoin technology, so it can't be done. And this problem might be a big obstacle in mass bitcoin adoption and regulations that are coming.

Criminals still prefer fiat, because not only is it safer for them, but because Bitcoin is not as anonymous as you think. If all relevant research shows that Bitcoin is used by 1-2% of people in the world, where do you see a problem in that? In addition, every bill you have in your wallet may have been in the hands of a drug smuggler, a weapon smuggler, or maybe it was used to pay for a murder - so if you want to solve the world's problems, you should start from the top, not the bottom.

S A KHAIR

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Why do you have to want bitcoin to change, not criminals, or should you tell the government because it is the responsibility of the government? Bitcoin was born to bring freedom to everyone, not designed for criminals. If you use bitcoin for your bad behavior, the government will prosecute and punish you, not bitcoin.

vv181

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Quote from: crypticj on April 01, 2023, 08:28:10 PM

the exact problem why criminals are using it.

The root cause is the self or the mind that does bad things, not the tools.

Quote from: crypticj on April 01, 2023, 08:28:10 PM

The problem here is that the system should have some way to fight these criminals because we don't want bitcoin to be associated with drugs and sex trafficking

Why don't we abolish the current currency system since it also supports drugs and sex trafficking?

Quote from: crypticj on April 01, 2023, 08:28:10 PM

So I want to hear your opinion: how to make bitcoin technology "safer" so we could fight a crime committed with crypto and help with bitcoin adoption without taking away the main features of bitcoin like decentralization and anonymity?

By educating that the inherent features that bitcoin has and what makes it sustainable until now are essential things. Do you think you want to switch bitcoin to PoS since it way "safer" for the environment?

The unintended consequences that bitcoin offers are acknowledged. It is the same with the Tor network, the benefit is outweighed the bad. And by integrating a backdoor to combat criminals, will very likely do more harm than good.

Marvell1

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Preventing crime is the government's responsibility, not bitcoin's, bitcoin doesn't need to change anything. Criminals are human too, and they are free to use whatever they want, not only because they use bitcoin, but bitcoin has to change for them. That's absurd, and you should ask the government to regulate fiat so criminals can't use it. Governments are spreading false propaganda about bitcoin and crime because they are doing everything they can to stop bitcoin, and you are being deceived by them.

hZti

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You can use every kind of asset in illegal activity, the question is only how easy it can be done. Bitcoin for example can easily be used if you need to send money to foreign countries without fees or control. Cash/Gold/Diamonds or whatever are still as easily usable for local transactions as bitcoin and are shure still a lot more used than bitcoin. Governments only talk bad about bitcoin because it is not possible for them to talk bad about their own currency.

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Quote from: crypticj on April 01, 2023, 08:28:10 PM

Bitcoin is great in means of anonymous transactions and getting away from the banks and government control, but the problem is, it's the exact problem why criminals are using it. And it's a pretty big one. I'm not saying that criminals use bitcoin more than fiat, but we all can see that illegal services are widely accepting bitcoin.

Anonymous? It's only pseudo-anonymous.
It isn't that anonymous compare to Monero because anybody can still track your Bitcoin address depending on the transactions that you've done in the past. Bitcoin used in illegal services? Nothing new. With Bitcoin being pseudo-anonymous, criminals, and bad people will utilize it so that they can get away from the government.

Quote from: crypticj on April 01, 2023, 08:28:10 PM

The problem here is that the system should have some way to fight these criminals because we don't want bitcoin to be associated with drugs and sex trafficking, but the problem is, by solving these problems we should get rid of anonymity which is a pillar for the bitcoin technology, so it can't be done. And this problem might be a big obstacle in mass bitcoin adoption and regulations that are coming.

How can you fight these criminals if they are psudo-anonymous.
Also, include the fact that Mixing services are becoming more and more popular right now, and because of that, they can just get away easily because of these services. I'm not using that mixing services are bad in general, but we know that there are some bad people who are using it still.

Quote from: crypticj on April 01, 2023, 08:28:10 PM

So I want to hear your opinion: how to make bitcoin technology "safer" so we could fight a crime committed with crypto and help with bitcoin adoption without taking away the main features of bitcoin like decentralization and anonymity?

You can't.
Even the governments can't stop the criminals who are using fiat money in their criminal activities. Take note that they are using fiat, and it can be easily tracked because of their transactions. With cryptocurrency especially with Bitcoin, and also add the mixing services which makes the tracking way harder for the authorities to do, I don't think that there's a way for us to fight a crime without taking away anonymity.

Kakmakr

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It is not Bitcoin's responsibility to stop crime, just as the governments of the world were not concerned that Fiat are widely used by criminals. There are other ways for law enforcement to catch criminals... Example : A drug Kingpin have many people working for him... they run the drugs for him, but he takes massive profits.

He buys luxury cars and properties and run businesses that launder money for him.... those are the focus points for law enforcement, not the currency that are used. Wink

They catch them and charge them with money laundering / Tax evasion ...etc... no matter what payment method they used. Grin

Topic: Bitcoin usage in crime activity. - page 6. (Read 845 times)